TUL mechs

[ThirdSeatHero]

 
UAL was in terrible shape financially because of the ESOP. The company was heavily leveraged and was nearly out of cash when they filed BK. Outsourcing and all the other cuts were because they couldn't even get a loan from the ATSB without concessions. It had nothing to do with AA's measily 1,000 OSMs.

 
UAL was in terrible shape financially because of the ESOP??? 
 
UAL was indeed in terrible financial shape but not because of the ESOP. If anything, UAL wasn't in as bad a financial shape as they might have been Had the ESOP not kept wages and benefits down.

 

[Bob Owens]

 
UAL was in terrible shape financially because of the ESOP???
 
UAL was indeed in terrible financial shape but not because of the ESOP. If anything, UAL wasn't in as bad a financial shape as they might have been Had the ESOP not kept wages and benefits down.

Don't interrupt him, he is about to cite how the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor!
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8lT1o0sDwI

 

[Overspeed]

UAL was in terrible shape financially because of the ESOP??? 
 
UAL was indeed in terrible financial shape but not because of the ESOP. If anything, UAL wasn't in as bad a financial shape as they might have been Had the ESOP not kept wages and benefits down.

How was the ESOP funded? More assets at United were used to fund it, leaving less to borrow against. ESOP in itself was not to blame but is played a big part in its ability to stay afloat. But believe what you want.

http://www.nceo.org/observations-employee-ownership/c/united-airlines-esops-employee-ownership

 

[Bob Owens]

 
UAL was in terrible shape financially because of the ESOP. The company was heavily leveraged and was nearly out of cash when they filed BK. Outsourcing and all the other cuts were because they couldn't even get a loan from the ATSB without concessions. It had nothing to do with AA's measily 1,000 OSMs.
 
Unions have leverage when they are lead by people who communicate the facts to their members so they can make good decisions.
 

Yep and AA had cut most of its debt and had $5 billion in cash when you voted to give them your pension, retiree medical and accept the lowest wage in the industry. 
 
I agree, but Dons fact source was the Union busting firm of AIRCON, I met its boss, IIRC Mr Delucia, he said "I'm the guy who gives you all the information to scare away your unions" two the two Worldwide execs standing next to me. 

 

[Overspeed]

Don't interrupt him, he is about to cite how the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor!

I believe the Germans did provide hardware to the Japanese

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

How was the ESOP funded? More assets at United were used to fund it, leaving less to borrow against. ESOP in itself was not to blame but is played a big part in its ability to stay afloat. But believe what you want.

http://www.nceo.org/observations-employee-ownership/c/united-airlines-esops-employee-ownership

 
 The ESOP was funded through wage and benefit concessions from 1994 thru 2000 that granted 55% ownership to UAL employees. 
 
Believe what you want - I Lived it for 6 years.

 

[Bob Owens]

I believe the Germans did provide hardware to the Japanese

So did we.
 

In truth, the United States did not want to disrupt its lucrative trade with Japan. In addition to a variety of consumer goods, the U.S. supplied resource-poor Japan with most of its scrap iron and steel. Most importantly, it sold Japan 80% of its oil.
http://usforeignpolicy.about.com/od/asia/a/The-United-States-And-Japan-Before-World-War-Ii.htm

 

[Overspeed]

So did we.

And many others

 

[swamt]

 
UAL was in terrible shape financially because of the ESOP???
 
UAL was indeed in terrible financial shape but not because of the ESOP. If anything, UAL wasn't in as bad a financial shape as they might have been Had the ESOP not kept wages and benefits down.

Just let him keep posting, he's doing a great job, trust me...

 

[Overspeed]

 
 The ESOP was funded through wage and benefit concessions from 1994 thru 2000 that granted 55% ownership to UAL employees. 
 
Believe what you want - I Lived it for 6 years.

 
Ok

 

[Bob Owens]

 
 The ESOP was funded through wage and benefit concessions from 1994 thru 2000 that granted 55% ownership to UAL employees. 
 
Believe what you want - I Lived it for 6 years.

 So in reality it cost them nothing.
 
I recall back in the 90's when a UAL mechanic was working a contract carrier in the AA hangar I was assigned to work with him because they were in our Hangar. We were discussing the ESOP, which I never liked, not so much because of the employee ownership part but because the the restriction on selling the stock. This guy was telling me about how he was going to be a Millionaire when he retired. He loved the ESOP, I was skeptical, I told him to look at the historical trend of Airline stocks and without the ability to sell he really didn't own anything, that his ESOP was currently a liability not an Assett, it was something he was paying for every week but could not turn into cash unless he quit. Wonder how he feels about his wonderful ESOP now?

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

So in reality it cost them nothing.
 
I recall back in the 90's when a UAL mechanic was working a contract carrier in the AA hangar I was assigned to work with him because they were in our Hangar. We were discussing the ESOP, which I never liked, not so much because of the employee ownership part but because the the restriction on selling the stock. This guy was telling me about how he was going to be a Millionaire when he retired. He loved the ESOP, I was skeptical, I told him to look at the historical trend of Airline stocks and without the ability to sell he really didn't own anything, that his ESOP was currently a liability not an Assett, it was something he was paying for every week but could not turn into cash unless he quit. Wonder how he feels about his wonderful ESOP now?

Ask the UAL guys what they think about the IAM and John Peterpaul.

 

[MetalMover]

Ask the UAL guys what they think about the IAM and John Peterpaul.

From what I know of the IAM, not much different than the TWU with their philosophy.
All more the reason to vote AGAINST the TWU/IAM alliance.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

Tulsa Mechanics​

 ​

As we head into the final month before the 1 yr bar set by the NMB for us to file cards for an election to remeove the TWU​

 ​

The time is NOW for you to decide one way or the other.​

 ​

Do You want this TWU/IAM alliance or NOT.​

 ​

We need each of you to think long and hard about your future with AA and what will happen to our class and craft​

if this alliance is allowed by us to happen.​

 ​

 ​

Is Lombardo the answer at the TWU and is the Leader of the IAM T. Buffenburger (maybe mis-spelled)​

going to secure a future here at AA that is going to carry you and your families.​

 ​

Our Class and Craft has suffered much under these two Industril Unions.​

 ​

Lets not just sit back and wait lets effect a change that will bring a new way of thinking to AA.​

 ​

You must all know someone there who has amfa cards find that person or ask some one of your fellow mechanics about getting a card.​

 ​

 ​

 ​

Sign a Card so we can hold an election, bring a vote to AA and settle this.​

 

[Realityck]

 

Tulsa Mechanics​

 ​

As we head into the final month before the 1 yr bar set by the NMB for us to file cards for an election to remeove the TWU​

 ​

The time is NOW for you to decide one way or the other.​

 ​

Do You want this TWU/IAM alliance or NOT.​

 ​

We need each of you to think long and hard about your future with AA and what will happen to our class and craft​

if this alliance is allowed by us to happen.​

 ​

 ​

Is Lombardo the answer at the TWU and is the Leader of the IAM T. Buffenburger (maybe mis-spelled)​

going to secure a future here at AA that is going to carry you and your families.​

 ​

Our Class and Craft has suffered much under these two Industril Unions.​

 ​

Lets not just sit back and wait lets effect a change that will bring a new way of thinking to AA.​

 ​

You must all know someone there who has amfa cards find that person or ask some one of your fellow mechanics about getting a card.​

 ​

 ​

 ​

 ​

Sign a Card so we can hold an election, bring a vote to AA and settle this.​

 

 
 
Most recent AMFA disaster and how they dealt with it:
 
 
But their own members declared the AMFA experiment, after less than a decade at the helm, a dismal failure. An AMFA offshoot, the Professional Flight Attendants Association (PFAA), was dumped in 2006 by 69% of 9000 flights attendants at NWA after only three years. AMFA itself was decimated at NWA in an ill-advised 2005 strike that left only 800 mechanics remaining. After decimating the ranks of the NWA AMT’s, AMFA bailed out.
 
On February 25, 2009, the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association (AMFA) addressed a letter to the National Mediation Board (NMB), stating:
 
“We are writing to advise you that the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association (“AMFA”) has determined that it would be in the best interests of the employees who AMFA represents at Northwest Airlines, Inc. for AMFA to request revocation of its certification”.
 
It has also been decertified at UAL, which was their largest unit.