Top AA executives visit Tulsa base. AA/USAIR Committed to staying in Tulsa.

[1AA]

I do not recall the exact wording but it was in reference to not letting the Frozen pension get turned over to the IAM pension fund. We want it to stay right where it is. If AA should decide to unfreeze it (highly unlikely) then so be it. We want it to stay managed and funded by AA and not the Unions or PBGC. That is our intent.

 

[WeAAsles]

I do not recall the exact wording but it was in reference to not letting the Frozen pension get turned over to the IAM pension fund. We want it to stay right where it is. If AA should decide to unfreeze it (highly unlikely) then so be it. We want it to stay managed and funded by AA and not the Unions or PBGC. That is our intent.

I 100% agree with and support that as well.

 

[AANOTOK]

I do not recall the exact wording but it was in reference to not letting the Frozen pension get turned over to the IAM pension fund. We want it to stay right where it is. If AA should decide to unfreeze it (highly unlikely) then so be it. We want it to stay managed and funded by AA and not the Unions or PBGC. That is our intent.

I think that is where Fleet and the Mechanics can agree on one thing. IAM, leave our AA pension alone (at least from this fleet member anyway)

 

[700UW]

The motion is out of order, a local lodge doesnt tell the NC what to do.
 
And that is a TWU vote, not an association vote or meeting.

 

[Bob Owens]

Bob I asked this on another thread but maybe you missed it?

So Bob let me ask you. You are a Union official. Do you believe your President Gary Peterson would agree to this in negotiations? You also know other Presidents out there. Do you believe they would agree to this? You've also gotten to know I'm sure Harry Lombardo, John Samuelson and Alex Garcia, do you think they would agree to this?

If 'somehow" this notion of our frozen pensions being rolled over and into the IAMPF was to be proposed and accepted for us to vote on, you don't think there would be an uproar of epic proportions? Even if all those items that Scorpion brought up were modified or waived we all know that the fund administrators could modify them back in the future.
 
 

 

If I were to ask you 15 years ago would you agree to lose half your pay, your Pension, Retiree medical, pay on average around $7k a year out of pocket for medical and coverage, allow the company to pick crew chiefs, pick who works OT by calling it "job continuance", eliminate 5 holidays and work the remaining holidays at half pay, one week of vacation for the first five years, five sick days with the first two at each occurrence at half pay, etc etc etc,  you would undoubtably say no way would anyone agree to this, yet here we are aren't we? Where was the uproar of epic proportions then? Instead we had our International running around saying we had to give all this up or we would end up with no job and ZERO income and removing elected representatives that did try to fight it. 
 
 The company is making BILLIONS in profits and we are making less than ever before. 
 
So don't try and spin this to what Gary would agree to, the die has been cast, if every TWU member there votes NO and every IAM member votes yes then the IAM, being the chair for the first two years decides. Then comes the spin to an extremely disenfranchised membership that has been conditioned by their Unions to have very low expectations despite the unbelievably high profits of American Airlines. 
 
If Harry, John and Alex did nothing to stop this Association then I don't see them doing much to stop any of the other things that Little, Gless and Videtich agreed to either. 
 

I want you to make up a scenario where you can see one year from now that my pension is unfrozen and handed over to the IAMPF even if I don't agree for it to be so?

My friend Jerry back in NY left the company about 6 years ago and became a Court Officer. When he hits 55 he plans on drawing his 22 year pension even with the 15% hit between 55 and 60. So what do you believe happens to him?
 

 
I could see the Association, by a 7 to 6 vote coming back with a proposal to adjust our Holidays to 8 at Doubletime, restore two weeks vacation for the first five years, and Delta plus 7 along with the promise that now our pensions would be restored, they will claim that we will get close to what we expected prior to our AA plan being frozen and omit a lot of details. look, we were lied to for at least 30 years about our AA plan, we were told we had the best in the industry because of the higher multiplier, even given graphs and charts that showed how much we would get vs our peers with the same years "in the plan" , what they omitted was that we lost the first year and that first year more than offset the higher multiplier for IIRC 45 years. 
 

You also do know that the IAM tried twice to get the PmCo members to FREEZE their CARP (Continental Airlines Retirement Plan) and go into the IAMPF and were rebuffed both times. They never proposed taking over the CARP as far as I know? Why do you feel they would propose taking over the TWU pensions?
 

As you said, theirs wasn't frozen.  They couldn't even pretend to be promising something better.  The value in this transaction lies with the fact that we can retire at 60 and only get a max penalty at 15% vs the 45% with the IAMNPF. This adds a lot of money to the table that the IAM can use to try and sell it. That money would be used to pay for things like Holidays, vacation, sick time and in reality be zero cost for the company. With our members so desperate for money many would not look down the road and grab it, we have over 3500 members in the TWU that aren't even getting the full match and giving money back to the company. So you have those 3500 plus all the US guys who would to see billions rolled into a plan they are already stuck with. 

 

[Bob Owens]

The motion is out of order, a local lodge doesnt tell the NC what to do.
 
And that is a TWU vote, not an association vote or meeting.

In other words rank and file members cant tell the appointed negotiating committee what to do in the IAM, they can only say yes or no to what they agree to. 

 

[WeAAsles]

If I were to ask you 15 years ago would you agree to lose half your pay, your Pension, Retiree medical, pay on average around $7k a year out of pocket for medical and coverage, allow the company to pick crew chiefs, pick who works OT by calling it "job continuance", eliminate 5 holidays and work the remaining holidays at half pay, one week of vacation for the first five years, five sick days with the first two at each occurrence at half pay, etc etc etc,  you would undoubtably say no way would anyone agree to this, yet here we are aren't we? Where was the uproar of epic proportions then? Instead we had our International running around saying we had to give all this up or we would end up with no job and ZERO income and removing elected representatives that did try to fight it. 
 
 The company is making BILLIONS in profits and we are making less than ever before. 
 
So don't try and spin this to what Gary would agree to, the die has been cast, if every TWU member there votes NO and every IAM member votes yes then the IAM, being the chair for the first two years decides. Then comes the spin to an extremely disenfranchised membership that has been conditioned by their Unions to have very low expectations despite the unbelievably high profits of American Airlines. 
 
If Harry, John and Alex did nothing to stop this Association then I don't see them doing much to stop any of the other things that Little, Gless and Videtich agreed to either. 
 
 
I could see the Association, by a 7 to 6 vote coming back with a proposal to adjust our Holidays to 8 at Doubletime, restore two weeks vacation for the first five years, and Delta plus 7 along with the promise that now our pensions would be restored, they will claim that we will get close to what we expected prior to our AA plan being frozen and omit a lot of details. look, we were lied to for at least 30 years about our AA plan, we were told we had the best in the industry because of the higher multiplier, even given graphs and charts that showed how much we would get vs our peers with the same years "in the plan" , what they omitted was that we lost the first year and that first year more than offset the higher multiplier for IIRC 45 years. 
 
As you said, theirs wasn't frozen.  They couldn't even pretend to be promising something better.  The value in this transaction lies with the fact that we can retire at 60 55 and only get a max penalty at 15% vs the 45% at 60 with the IAMNPF. This adds a lot of money to the table that the IAM can use to try and sell it. That money would be used to pay for things like Holidays, vacation, sick time and in reality be zero cost for the company. With our members so desperate for money many would not look down the road and grab it, we have over 3500 members in the TWU that aren't even getting the full match and giving money back to the company. So you have those 3500 plus all the US guys who would to see billions rolled into a plan they are already stuck with. 

Thanks for the response Bob. I don't completely agree with everything you just wrote and we have gone back and forth on a few of them but your response and opinions are appreciated.

If any of your scenarios did play out you would have a supporter against them. But I also don't think as many people are as desperate as you think?

 

[WeAAsles]

BTW Bob, is that 3500 number total TWU members or just Maintenance? And where did you get that info? Not claiming it's wrong. I've run into plenty of guys who aren't maximizing that 5.5% and told them they're nuts. I've practically strong armed people to raise it.

That IS where the company is making a killing against our old Pension multiplier. Airline Financials pegged our first year benefit cut's at $12,000 average. So far that's in compensation and medical benefits.

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

Is this the thread about AA staying in Tulsa?

I remember executives at NWA saying the same about Duluth, Hibbing, and MSP.

Good luck.

 

[blue collar]

Is this the thread about AA staying in Tulsa?
I remember executives at NWA saying the same about Duluth, Hibbing, and MSP.
Good luck.

Having big wigs come and tell you how good of a job you're doing and "(insert company name) has long terms plans for (insert station)", is a harbinger of downsizing/closure. Good luck indeed.

 

[AANOTOK]

Is this the thread about AA staying in Tulsa?

I remember executives at NWA saying the same about Duluth, Hibbing, and MSP.

Good luck.

Unfortunately, NO thread stays true to it's title, and we are ALL guilty. A little bit of hypocrisy in all of us.

 

[swamt]

In other words rank and file members cant tell the appointed negotiating committee what to do in the IAM, they can only say yes or no to what they agree to. 

Correct Bob. Only works that way with AMFA.  With AMFA the membership runs and controls how and what will be at the table during nego's.

 

[700UW]

Bull.

 

[DNTULSA]

I have no doubt that AA will continue to have a presence in TULE.
 
How much of a presence?
 
Perhaps just a hangar or two. Everything else at the base could be  leased out  to an MRO  that would perform the majority of AA's maintenance.

 

[Real tired]

Having big wigs come and tell you how good of a job you're doing and "(insert company name) has long terms plans for (insert station)", is a harbinger of downsizing/closure. Good luck indeed.

That's odd.
 
They just told us here in PIT, that PIT is going nowhere.  And if we work real hard, they might bring some sort of 737-800 check here.  "Trust us".
 
I'm so confused.  
 
Vote yes, vote no.  PIT's staying, PIT's going.  
 
Who to believe?