TLV service ending?

[nycbusdriver]

AA already paid $15.5 to the former TLV TWA employees.

 
Yes, that may very well be true.  But did they find that sufficient, or are they, or the Israeli government, making further claims?

 

[robbedagain]

I have to wonder if the costs  (security wise) played a role  esp since Israel was providing extra security  at least that is what I have always heard

 

[wings396]

Just wanted to add a few more comments here. Given the 777 fleet that AA has, I'm sure that they could have shifted one to the TLV route at some point. Secondly, many sources over the years have made remarks as to the profitability of this flight due in part to the cargo. As I'm sure that many of you know, AA just opened a new temperature controlled cargo facility in PHL to handle some of the cargo for TLV. As another member here posted, something doesn't fit here. While PHL may not have had a high O&D percentage on this flight, they did bring in plenty of connecting traffic. It is also a fact that at on point, US was considering a 2nd flight. While I'm not an expert of any sort, none of the above listed items point to a flight that lost millions of dollars over a 6 year period.

 

[wings396]

If it lost money from the start than why keep it all these years?? OSL ARN and BHX never made it past one season because of losses even the CLT-HNL  and the PHL-ANC were short lived Parker never kept flight running if they weren't  making $$$....there is more to this...

Best statement on this subject so far, and very accurate..

 

[FWAAA]

Mayor Nutjob weighs in:

The Nutter administration called on Philadelphia's largest airline, with 76 percent of the market, to reevaluate the decision, saying it was "very disappointed." The mayor has made two economic development trips to Israel in recent years.

"In the future, this business decision may be viewed as shortsighted as more Israeli businesses express interest in Philadelphia," the administration said. "Indeed, we're now seeing a trend where Israeli firms have decided to locate their operations in Philadelphia."

Halting the flights "sends the wrong message about our city and region as an open and business friendly locale and damages American Airlines' reputation as an international business," the mayor's office said.

http://www.philly.com/philly/business/transportation/20150821_American_Airlines_eliminatingnonstop_flight_from_Philly_to_Israel_in_January.html

If Mayor Nutter thinks Parker's decision is wrong, who am I to argue?

Criminal defendant Congressman Chaka Fattah hopes to make people forget about his corruption charges by talking about brokering a deal with AA to keep the TLV flight:

"I am strongly opposed to the decision announced today by American Airlines to cancel this flight route. It is a critically important route, both for the constituents in my district who travel between Philadelphia and Tel Aviv, and also for the growing business relationship between our city and Israel. The effects of this decision will not only hurt tourism between our two countries, it will have a negative impact on our economies. The ease and accessibility offered by this flight had significant long-term potential to stimulate growth and communication.

"I hope to work with American Airlines to see if there is an alternative solution to cancelling the route and will seek a meeting with the appropriate officials in the coming weeks to discuss options to keep this flight operating."

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/congressman-fattah-statement-on-cancellation-of-american-airlines-nonstop-flight-from-philadelphia-to-tel-aviv-300131548.html

Congressman: you should probably focus on staying out of prison now that Obama's Justice Department has charged you with bribery, mail fraud, falsification of records, bank fraud, money laundering, making false statements to a financial institution and other crimes.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/07/29/us-usa-crime-fattah-idUSKCN0Q322P20150729

 

[jcw]

won't this actually free up two aircraft?

 

[WorldTraveler]

With the exception of the majority of US- Europe flights, most US longhaul international widebody flights require one than one aircraft based on the length of the flight or the timing necessary for marketing reasons and time zones. It is possible to combine time between routes in order to minimize the need for two full aircraft per route.

 

[700UW]

Yes it will free up two A332s

At PMUS TLV WAS THE ONLY route needing two planes, I worked all the CLT international flights

 

[jcw]

interesting from JFK to TLV is about is pushing 10 hours on a daily basis and the return is about 11 hrs 15 mins - both rounded - let's say a 777 stays on the ground for 6 hours (just hypothetical) - lands around 5:30 PM and leaves a bit after midnight  so the round trip (I will go slow) 10 + 6 + 11 is 27 hours in case anyone is struggling following along that is greater than 24 hours - in addition - I did not factor in unloading in JFK or loading in JFK so if you add another 3 hours for ground handling before and after departure we can round to 30 hours
 
Make you wonder how someone thinks it does not take 2 aircraft in a 24 hour period to support the route - tough one isn't it
 
Let's try it another way in case it's not clear
 
Plane takes off from JFK to TLV at midnight while a plane lands at JFK at 5:00 AM arriving from TLV - that's only 5 hour difference - a plane can not make it to TLV and back to JFK in 5 hours - that means two planes
 
Yes you can use the plane in the states during the day probably for 8 hours of flying (aka like US sends A330 to SJU and back during the day)
 
However it's clear you need two aircraft to operate TLV

 

[nycbusdriver]

Definitely takes two aircraft for TLV-PHL.  But the airplane that lands in PHL at 5:30 am from TLV has enough time to do a SJU  or CUN turn (which it sometimes does) and still be back in PHL in time for the transatlantic trip that same night.
 
The other European cities can be (and are) serviced by one airplane.  Many times it's the same tail number I bring to Europe that I take back to the US the next day...after it has crossed the Atlantic to PHL and back while I am on layover.

 

[WorldTraveler]

interesting from JFK to TLV is about is pushing 10 hours on a daily basis and the return is about 11 hrs 15 mins - both rounded - let's say a 777 stays on the ground for 6 hours (just hypothetical) - lands around 5:30 PM and leaves a bit after midnight  so the round trip (I will go slow) 10 + 6 + 11 is 27 hours in case anyone is struggling following along that is greater than 24 hours - in addition - I did not factor in unloading in JFK or loading in JFK so if you add another 3 hours for ground handling before and after departure we can round to 30 hours



blah blah blah

blah blah blah

blah blah blah

I'm not sure what your point is but I said quite some time ago that most routes other than to Europe require more than one aircraft. TLV for all US carriers works that way.

you clearly don't realize that DL's JFK-TLV aircraft has been linked for quite some time to the JFK-NRT route plus one intra-Asia route based on the structure of the NRT hub.

it actually takes 4 aircraft to run that rotation on a daily basis.

The longest amount of ground time is between the arrival of the NRT flight at JFK and the departure to TLV.

I'm quite sure that UA's TLV aircraft rotate thru its Asian system as well.

 

[PHL]

AA already paid $15.5 to the former TLV TWA employees.

 
You sure about that?  From what I read, AA was fined/ordered to pay $16M but never did.  

 

[nycbusdriver]

If the fine/order was ignored, then maybe this suspension is simply Parker trying to "stare down" the Israeli government.  If PHL is the best inbound airport for all of those Israeli pharmaceutical manufacturers, maybe he's just waiting for the power of the shekel at the hands of "Corporate Israel" to raise enough hell to have the fine reversed.  Corporate economics will always trump fairness, law and reason.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Since the US has an excellent highway and a train system between NYC and PHL, it is also very possible that the Israeli government can easily justify adding on a couple more hours to the trip time if the money in the fine is really the issue. Given that there will be precisely one metro area in the US with US carrier nonstop service to Israel after AA's withdrawal from the market, PHL won't find a huge meeting of mayors at which it can whine about the loss of Israel service.

If AA is now saying that the route didn't make money because AA now has to restate earnings to consider the penalty which will now have to be paid because of the AA/TW deal, then perhaps the economics don't and won't work.

but it also argues against the statements that the PHL-TLV route was not profitable for years because US had no reason before the merger to even consider the impact of a potential penalty that AA was carrying against it.

or maybe the fine has nothing to do with the decision to drop TLV and Israel is just not a priority market for AA because it is too NYC focused and AA doesn't have the route in the right market and couldn't succeed if it tried to move it there because there is too much capacity from other carriers.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Since the US has an excellent highway and a train system between NYC and PHL, it is also very possible that the Israeli government can easily justify adding on a couple more hours to the trip time if the money in the fine is really the issue. Given that there will be precisely one metro area in the US with US carrier nonstop service to Israel after AA's withdrawal from the market, PHL won't find a huge meeting of mayors at which it can whine about the loss of Israel service.

If AA is now saying that the route didn't make money because AA now has to restate earnings to consider the penalty which will now have to be paid because of the AA/TW deal, then perhaps the economics don't and won't work.

but it also argues against the statements that the PHL-TLV route was not profitable for years because US had no reason before the merger to even consider the impact of a potential penalty that AA was carrying against it.

or maybe the fine has nothing to do with the decision to drop TLV and Israel is just not a priority market for AA because it is too NYC focused and AA doesn't have the route in the right market and couldn't succeed if it tried to move it there because there is too much capacity from other carriers.

 
Obviously you are not at all acquainted with the outdated, overcrowded, failure-prone rail and highway system between NYC and PHL.  
 
And don't even TRY to lecture me about it.  I have lived with it for decades and am intimately familiar with its shortcomings which are deep and plentiful.