Effectice July PHL-TLV goes twice daily

[robbedagain]

no I was not arguing that..  I was primarily thinking they cld draw traffic off of say ny metro who would fly DL or even LY  for the 2nd flight   Does BOS have a large pop that wld sustain at least 1 flight to TLV?

 

[737823]

Robbed CJP and Robert Kraft have been trying to get LY and OALs to start BOS-TLV for years now. Personally I think it will happen in the next 3-5 years, LYnjust doesn't currently have suitable aircraft available to deploy and is currently the most likely carrier for the route.

Josh

 

[FWAAA]

no I was not arguing that..  I was primarily thinking they cld draw traffic off of say ny metro who would fly DL or even LY  for the 2nd flight   Does BOS have a large pop that wld sustain at least 1 flight to TLV?

NYC (JFK and EWR) accounts for 60% of the TLV O&D, or about 20 times the O&D that PHL attracts.
 
If you hope to draw passengers from NYC, then why not simply fly from NYC?   The TLV traffic is heading to or from NYC, not PHL.   Why not serve that traffic?    

 

[robbedagain]

The price for one would be more likely cheaper from phl compared to say ewr or jfk. Wouldnt it? Is that 60% combined for both ewr and jfk?

Josh EL AL does have 744s n 777s but not sure how many in the fleet. I believe they have like 2 or 3 to nyc area

 

[737823]

Robbed fares vary depending on the carrier, market, day of week, season, etc. Connecting itineraries, all things equal, are for the most part cheaper than non-stop

Yes El Al longhaul fleet is 6x 744, 6x 772, and 6x 763. For the BOS market I think they would need something like a 788, A330 or possibly 763 to be successful but again they don't have those aircraft available nor do they have any plans to take delivery of any at this time.

Josh

 

[28L_or_10R?]

Longhair fleet?

 

[700UW]

There is a reason why no one is flying MIA or BOS to TLV, there isnt the market for it.

 

[robbedagain]

not sure if the 763 can do TLV-BOS nonstop  but in any case they would need 1 or 2 extra planes to have at least 1 nonstop to BOS

 

[700UW]

The 767-300 has the range, as it has flown from JFK-TLV before, and BOS isnt really much farther.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Since the PHL-TLV flights are so often jam-packed full of revenue passengers, there is obviously a demand for the service outside of the O&D of NYC.  Maybe not enough for a second flight, though, and a second flight might very well run with much lower load factors.
 
But the money made between PHL and TLV is below deck in the cargo compartment.  The real question is whether or not industry (especially pharmaceuticals) demands yet another flight between TLV and PHL.  Bottles of pills and vials of potions do not care one whit whether they arrive at the loading docks of Queens or Essington.  As long as they can efficiently make it to the various warehouses of Big Pharma, they are happy.  My guess is that it is just as easy to truck (or fly) any of that stuff out of PHL as it is out of JFK.  It's probably easier.  And if one is using land-based transport, MIA is a nightmare.
 
Speaking of MIA-TLV, there seems to be a misperception that: 1) there are enough Jewish people living in the MIA area to make that non-stop profitable, and 2) only Jewish people travel to the Holy Land.  (I use the term "Holy Land" because it is "holy" to all three of the Abrahamic religions...which has probably been the main reason Jerusalem has not been terrorist-bombed into oblivion.) I doubt that there is enough high yield passenger traffic in the MIA area (or willing to fly to the far corner of the US for a connection) to support MIA-TLV (which El Al has proven.)  Tourists (Jewish, Christian and Muslim) might be able to fill a MIA-TLV flight on a fairly regular basis, but the low yields and lack of a belly-full of revenue cargo would not support the necessary TWO airframes to make the route profitable.
 
Yes, of course PHL doesn't have the O&D that NYC has, but it does have a huge geographical advantage over MIA for connections to Europe and the Middle East.  (This is the reason, as explained by Scott Kirby months ago as the merger took effect, that PHL will remain a major hub for the airline.  PHL's market is different from JFK's market, and there is room for both.)

 

[737823]

There is a reason why no one is flying MIA or BOS to TLV, there isnt the market for it.

Ok network planning genius guess by your logic no carrier would ever add new routes that don't already exist. MIA ended in 2008 when oil hit $140 barrel and the small 767-200ER was no longer economical to run for that route. LY received additional 772s that went to GRU which has since been discontinued. Israel was category 2 status by the FAA which barred LY from resuming the route. See I know people who work at LY and in the BOS & MIA Jewish communities unlike you.

Josh

 

[700UW]

And that is six years later and NO one is flying the route, now are they?
 
And if LY wants to fly the route, they could have bought a new plane, leased a plane or acquire a used aircraft for the route, now couldnt they have?
 
Since you know more then LY, AA, DL, UA or any other airline network people, why dont you lobby all the airlines to fly the route so you can take your annual trip there?
 
So Israel was upgraded from Cat 1 to in 2012, two years ago, and yet they still arent flying it?
 
Dont let the facts get in your way.
 
Just because you know an agent at LY doesnt mean you know what the inner working of operations, marketing and route planning are.
 
You are a legend in your own mind.

 

[robbedagain]

thanks for the reply 700 in my earlier post.   NYC  that's pretty good post     I would imagine that LY probably lost more money on the MIA run not to mention if it was weight restricted would just add to the losses  and therefore they feel it is not worth resuming

 

[WorldTraveler]

not sure if the 763 can do TLV-BOS nonstop  but in any case they would need 1 or 2 extra planes to have at least 1 nonstop to BOS

 
DL operated JFK-TLV with its 12 hr plus 767s with lie flat pilot crew rest facilities.

when you take out the longer taxis at JFK, BOS-TLV is a comfortably distance for a 767.

LY operated a 762 from MIA-TLV.

the problem with the 762 is that the economics of that aircraft are about the same as the 763 but with fewer passengers.
 

Since the PHL-TLV flights are so often jam-packed full of revenue passengers, there is obviously a demand for the service outside of the O&D of NYC.  Maybe not enough for a second flight, though, and a second flight might very well run with much lower load factors.
 
But the money made between PHL and TLV is below deck in the cargo compartment.  The real question is whether or not industry (especially pharmaceuticals) demands yet another flight between TLV and PHL.  Bottles of pills and vials of potions do not care one whit whether they arrive at the loading docks of Queens or Essington.  As long as they can efficiently make it to the various warehouses of Big Pharma, they are happy.  My guess is that it is just as easy to truck (or fly) any of that stuff out of PHL as it is out of JFK.  It's probably easier.  And if one is using land-based transport, MIA is a nightmare.
 
Speaking of MIA-TLV, there seems to be a misperception that: 1) there are enough Jewish people living in the MIA area to make that non-stop profitable, and 2) only Jewish people travel to the Holy Land.  (I use the term "Holy Land" because it is "holy" to all three of the Abrahamic religions...which has probably been the main reason Jerusalem has not been terrorist-bombed into oblivion.) I doubt that there is enough high yield passenger traffic in the MIA area (or willing to fly to the far corner of the US for a connection) to support MIA-TLV (which El Al has proven.)  Tourists (Jewish, Christian and Muslim) might be able to fill a MIA-TLV flight on a fairly regular basis, but the low yields and lack of a belly-full of revenue cargo would not support the necessary TWO airframes to make the route profitable.
 
Yes, of course PHL doesn't have the O&D that NYC has, but it does have a huge geographical advantage over MIA for connections to Europe and the Middle East.  (This is the reason, as explained by Scott Kirby months ago as the merger took effect, that PHL will remain a major hub for the airline.  PHL's market is different from JFK's market, and there is room for both.)

true.

the bottom line is that MIA doesn't have the domestic flow traffic or the right geography to support it.

 

[700UW]

Didnt DL end its ATL-TLV flights also and concentrated on JFK?