The Official Us/hp Ideas For A Happy Merger Thread

[Twicebaked]

As far as the pilots are concerned. The USAir(ways) pilots are working for a pretty much dead company, and as such no longer have any realistic career expectations. They should be totally stapled below the HP pilots.

Yes, that means a 30 year USAir(ways) pilot should go below a HP New Hire hired the day before the merger.

[post="264504"][/post]​

Again, you people are assuming that AWA will acquire US. Nobody knows at this point. If US acquires AWA do you think AWA should be stapled at the bottom or US because it is a "dead company" as you put it?

 

[Light Years]

Date of hire. Pure and simple.

PITbull has a great point. Here's the situation for flight attendants at US Airways, very loosely: They have a seniority list that is twice the size of the airline as it currently exists, which means only half of the system seniority list is active at mainline. There are about 10,000 on the seniority list, 5000 or so are active at mainline. Most senior is 1950-something hire, most junior active is 1999. Out of the furloughees, about 2000 are involuntarily so.

Roughly a third to half of the active F/As want to leave. The company got more responses for the early buyout than what they were offering.

Then there is the MidAtlantic division, which is basically a division where you do mainline-type flying but for under a crap contract. It is staffed by involuntarily furloughed mainline F/As in seniority order. They can stay furloughed if they like, whether they do MAA or not doesn't affect thier recall status. There are only 350 at the moment, but they are still filling positions with willing furloughees every time they become available. Most senior MAA is 1999, most junior is 2001 when US stopped hiring and started mass furloughing. There are still people awaiting an offer even for MAA.

So you have a company that has senior employees wanting to leave, and junior employees wanting to come back, clearly regardless of the conditions. A truly unlimited recall would benefit everyone- the company regains a more junior and willing workforce, and the people who are done get to leave with a bit of incentive and dignity.

As for America West, considering they have hired so much in the last five years alot of junior people would be affected by a merger, and that sucks when there are many people who don't even want to be with the company anymore but don't have incentive to leave. Let's have a new airline with people who want to be there. It would be better for all to have new hires coming in below all of us in a cycle of growth. And if you were running a customer service intensive business, which employee attitude do you think would be better for your product and operation, and therefore your bottom line?

Also, and I know I harp on this all the time, but if they do let contract "regionals" fly the 170/190 family, there will be no space for anyone at the shrinky-dink that will be left of a "mainline" anyway. There will clearly be growth with that aircraft, both as replacement for 737 and RJ flying, and just plain growth. Let's keep as much flying ours as possible to avoid kicking people onto the street.

If US-HP is going to be this revolutionary major network LCC, then the unions should be revolutionary and demand simplicity like the LCCs. JetBlue will fly the 190s, and it will be JetBlue, not some company posing as JetBlue Express. There should be a single list for all flying at the new entity. This airline and it's future should be an opportunity for US Airways and America West employees to operate a great airline, not a host for a bunch of parasite companies to feed off of and be pawn's for an evil empire.

I even think the RJs and Dash 8s should be on the same list, and the W/O'd employees merged in in seniority too. One company, much more job security for everyone, and alot more teamwork and good morale. Simplicity- no infighting, no company trying to push scope issues or outsource. I say if they want a big LCC airline, then they make it an airline (singular), not a franchise.

And I'd like to see the two groups negotiate a new contract together, covering all of the flying, that is competitive and smart. As well as beneficial to it's members both financially and quality of life wise.

*Off my soap box*

 

[pitguy]

Two dead companies coming together. Gee let me run in to invest.

 

[supercruiser]

The ONLY way to intergrate is Dovetail, I know the Mechanic and Related and Fleet Service contracts at US all have the Allegheny/Mowhawk Labor Protection Provisions, which spell out Seniority Intergrations by Dovetail.

[post="264452"][/post]​

Allegheny/Mohawk LPP's have nothing to do with date of hire, slotting, dovetail, staple, or anything else specific. They simple state this:

"Section 3. Insofar as the merger affects the seniority rights of the carriers employees, provisions shall be made for the integration of seniority lists in a fair and equitable manner, including, where applicable, agreement through collective bargaining between the carriers and the representatives of the employees affected. In the event of failure to agree, the dispute may be submitted by either party for adjustment in accordance with section 13."

You try to reach mutual agreement, using the applicable merger policies if both groups are in the same union, and if you can't reach an agreement, it goes to binding arbitration.

supercruiser

 

[FA Mikey]

My question is since the merger language is a union policy and not contractual. What will force the purchasing company or the new combined to recognize it?

U does not have the best polices in sustaining fairness and high morale. Will they really care about what the unions want or think is fair?

 

[LGA Fleet Service]

Bear u dont know what the hell ur talking about... HP/US merger is not SKY NAAZI deal like AA/TW. Furthermore, Us and HP are AFA...fyi, bylaws state date of hire. HP isn't the rich, loathsome, backstabbing, anti-christ the AA is, and will always be. Its two airline trying to survive- pure and simple.... Poor TWA'ers so f..in screwed by the sky nAAzis!!!!

[post="264493"][/post]​

Easy skippy, dont have a stroke sitting at the keyboard....

Whats the matter, AA wouldn't hire you after Pan Am went under? :blink:

 

[LGA Fleet Service]

And the TWA employees did not have the LPPs to protect them.

[post="264494"][/post]​

They were required to surrender them or else the deal would not have gone forward.

They dragged their feet at first and TWA filed court papers to void the labor agreements.

Yes 700, this is where you get to cut and paste the nine steps they have to follow in order to do so. <_<

Too bad ALPA and the IAM didnt have you available to advise them of what to do.After considering the prospect of dealing with AMR without a contract they signed away the LPP portions of the contract.

The APA and APFA are independent unions and as such, didn't have to answer to the AFL-CIO or anyone else for that matter.

The TWU and IAM went to binding arbitration and they ended up with three different seniority dates depending on their work location.

The TWA employees also got full credit for length of service, which means top of scale from day one, and maximum vacation accrual, also means they pick vacation before everyone.

 

[LGA / 037]

Two dead companies coming together. Gee let me run in to invest.

[post="264524"][/post]​

I think this is a small piece of a much larger puzzle to be announced !

 

[700UW]

And 30 year TWA employees got laid-off while 2 year AA employees were still working.

What the TWU did to the former TWA employees is not what unions do to other union members.

The US/PS/PI mergers used date of hire/classification, as do most airline mergers.

Trade unionists, do not penalize other union members.

 

[LGA Fleet Service]

And 30 year TWA employees got laid-off while 2 year AA employees were still working.

What the TWU did to the former TWA employees is not what unions do to other union members.

The US/PS/PI mergers used date of hire/classification, as do most airline mergers.

Trade unionists, do not penalize other union members.

[post="264539"][/post]​

What the TWU did was go to binding arbitration, as specified in our contract.

The arbitrator handed down his decision based on the ammount of ASM's per station.

In stations where TWA made up 10% or more of the combined ASM's they got 25% of their occupational seniority.In stations like STL and MCI they got 100% of their occupational seniority and in stations where TWA had no operations at all or were below the 10% threshold they got 4/10/01 occupational seniority.

As well as full credit for length of service, pay and vacation bidding.

 

[700UW]

The TWU pushed the issue not to give the TWA employees full seniority and I believe the Kashir Arbitration was based on a clause in your TWU contract saying that TWU members should not be adversly affected by a intrgration.

Like I said, you have 30 year TWA employees laid-off while junior AA employees are still employed. Full length of service for pay and vacation bidding means nothing if you are laid-off.

Anyway you look at it, it is wrong.

 

[Bear96]

Furthermore, Us and HP are AFA...fyi, bylaws state date of hire.

[post="264493"][/post]​

I understand that. Look for HP F/As to start to think of ways to get around that provision if it looks like this will be a reality.




BTW -- (not to you, NAPAUS, I forget who said it though) -- avek00 is most definitely not a UAL employee!

 

[StraaightTaalk]

We'll just have to wait and see how happy the America West employees are, and how fair they think it is, when they are furloughed, while USAiways employees continue working. Enjoy the love-fest.

 

[unit4clt]

The TWU pushed the issue not to give the TWA employees full seniority and I believe the Kashir Arbitration was based on a clause in your TWU contract saying that TWU members should not be adversly affected by a intrgration.

Like I said, you have 30 year TWA employees laid-off while junior AA employees are still employed.  Full length of service for pay and vacation bidding means nothing if you are laid-off.

Anyway you look at it, it is wrong.

[post="264549"][/post]​

The IAM did not even protect senority in their latest agreement with management! What makes u think they will do better next time? Don't just cry co. did it....like u said any way u look at it it is wrong!!!!
What you have is incompetent AGC's. No wonder management laughs at the IAM!!! :down: So too will the TWU.

 

[PSA1979]

My question is since the merger language is a union policy and not contractual. What will force the purchasing company or the new combined to recognize it?

U does not have the best polices in sustaining fairness and high morale. Will they really care about what the unions want or think is fair?

[post="264533"][/post]​

The reason doh will be recognized is that AWA is also AFA. Since both airlines are the same union, the constitution and by laws of AFA will be followed. United tried to find a way around this also during the first "merger" attempt.

There was a major force to change unions at UA for the f/a's, and it didn't work. Even if it had, the original language would have prevailed because the C & B of the union that was on property at the begin of the talks takes precedent over the "new" union.

Therefore, doh will prevail for the f/a's no matter what! But, remember when PSA was merged into US, there were fences around all the bases for a period of time. Then when the fences were lowered, you could only bid into a base if there was an opening. I would expect this to be the policy if this AWA/US does occur.