the IAM is mad at the back door deals at AA!

[700UW]

Do you have the winning powerball numbers too?

You dont know which union would win, the TWU isnt a favorite of the AA employees.

 

[700UW]

http://www.learnengl...yvsallready.htm

Josh

 

[737823]

Do you have the winning powerball numbers too?

You dont know which union would win, the TWU isnt a favorite of the AA employees.

http://www.powerball.../pb_numbers.asp

Josh

 

[IORFA]

Once again your spreading your misinformation.

The law prevents a stapling job.

How many times do you have to be told AA forced all the unions at TWA to give up their LPPs or they wouldnt have bought TWA and it would have gone out of business?

It went to arbitration, APA and APFA stapled the former employees, not the IAM, the TWU's arbitration was a mixed formula.

I have been through three mergers being represented by the IAM and did not lose one day of seniority nor did the other company's employees lose any seniority.

Stop lying all ready.

Why do you keep lying by saying that "law" prevents stapling? You know that is not true. So why do you do what you accuse Josh of doing? It makes your posts not credible. If you want to earn respect on here, tell the truth and stop lying. You know for a fact that M/B does not forbid a staple job. Difficult and unlikely, yes. Prevent? Absolutely NOT! Let's tell the truth 700UW, however a stretch that might be for you.

 

[Kev3188]

Ok Kev, we have been down this road before.
And if I must then I will say it again.

Nobody got a ladder kicked out from under them.
Our new AMFA members coming from Airtran have gained huge raises, better benefits and job security by joining us on our contract.
It could have taken them 10 years or never to get these wages and benefits if there was no merger.
They gained everything and voted to trade a mere 4 years on a list to get it.
I welcome them all, including our new hires from AA and elsewhere, and am glad they will be getting our AMFA negotiated pay rates.
I thank them all for agreeing to compromise and reach a deal outside of arbitration.

AMFA did not tell us we had to accept a deal that was not fair to both sides. The AMFA system allowed us to make our own decisions, vote and negotiate for ourselves.

Our agreement raised up both sides.

Ask how the AA guys will feel when after their merger they are still stuck in their TWU negotiated garbage contract instead of at least being given benefits that the other side gets?

I am proud to say that we are glad that our ex-Airtran guys now make a good wage, and we will try to get them more on our next contract.

...And I'll have to say it again:

All of that is well and good except for the part about having the FL guys "give up" 4 years. It's worse because AMFA has arguably the most engaged membership in aviation right now. IOW, it wasn't Louie Key or a Jim Little-type making that decision from afar. No, it was just as you said; the membership chose the course to take. Make no mistake; that's what should happen. It's the decision you (collectively) came to that I find objectionable.

http://www.learnengl...yvsallready.htm

Josh

Totally unnecessary- especially in the age of autocorrect failures, and fat thumbing of the keyboard.

C'mon man.

Why do you keep lying by saying that "law" prevents stapling? You know that is not true. So why do you do what you accuse Josh of doing? It makes your posts not credible. If you want to earn respect on here, tell the truth and stop lying. You know for a fact that M/B does not forbid a staple job. Difficult and unlikely, yes. Prevent? Absolutely NOT! Let's tell the truth 700UW, however a stretch that might be for you.

How 'bout this instead? MB still allows any given group to voluntarily agree to be stapled, but it precludes it from being done *to* them.

 

[Real tired]

The IAM will be irrelevant following the merger (at least to AA's mechanics). As of 1/1/13, US says it has 3,514 maintenance and related employees.    Even after the early outs, AA has more than twice that number of M&R.

AA mechanics needn't worry about the IAM. What AA's mechanics should be focused on is that unless they quickly vote out the TWU, that worthless union will again pretend to represent them, this time in negotiations for seniority integration and a combined contract. Is that what you guys want?

This is the post that my apathetic, sleeping coworkers should be most fearful of. In the past we have always been the larger of the combining groups, now it looks like we will be the smaller.Fearful of angering our masters, this might take my fellow employees by surprise.

 

[Real tired]

If the IAM gets 35% A-Cards of the combined workforce they can force an election, guess you didnt know that.

That will be a stretch. You're not here anymore. I am. You're not on the shop floor and have to listen to everyone's complaining. I do. I can't foresee the future, but I know it'll be a stretch.

 

[700UW]

After what TWU agreed to, I doubt it will be that hard to get the cards.

The US employees dont want to lose their pension again and have nothing.

And I still have plenty of contacts out there to see what is going on.

And how many times did AMFA try to raid and it never went anywhere, the same can be said for the IBT at the merger.

Put CBA up against CBA and see which is better, the IAM one over the TWU one any day.

 

[IORFA]

How 'bout this instead? MB still allows any given group to voluntarily agree to be stapled, but it precludes it from being done *to* them.

Very close. Except, an arbitrator COULD still come to that conclusion as well. Nothing in MB disallows that either.

 

[WNMECH]

...And I'll have to say it again:

All of that is well and good except for the part about having the FL guys "give up" 4 years. It's worse because AMFA has arguably the most engaged membership in aviation right now. IOW, it wasn't Louie Key or a Jim Little-type making that decision from afar. No, it was just as you said; the membership chose the course to take. Make no mistake; that's what should happen. It's the decision you (collectively) came to that I find objectionable.

I accept that opinion completly because you are correct that the decision to fight for our seniority was our SWA memberships alone.

With that being said, I would rather make the decisions that determine my future than have the TWU, IBT, IAM or anyone else tell me what I have to take.

You do not have to live with the results of our SLI.
Both sides got something out of our deal, voted it in and are satisfied with the result.
You will not find us apologizng for fighting for this deal because we know it was the fairest thing to ALL sides, not just the Airtran side.

 

[FWAAA]

How 'bout this instead? MB still allows any given group to voluntarily agree to be stapled, but it precludes it from being done *to* them.

What if another commonly-accepted means of integration results in a staple? Say, for example, AA and Virgin America merge. Nearly every employee of AA was hired long before the most senior employee of VX and if an arbitration panel said that DOH was fair, that would be, for all intents and purposes, a staple job for the VX crew. Almost the same result if AA merged with jetBlue, except that there are a few senior B6 crewmembers hired before AA stopped hiring in mid-2001.

Those are some contorted examples, to be sure. As you pointed out, MB prevents one group from telling another workgroup "We're going to staple you to the bottom of our seniority list." But it certainly could work out that way given a young-enough workforce if the typical mantra of "Date of Hire" is the agreed-upon or arbitrated method.

 

[Desert Snake]

700, you seem to know everything about airlines, why aren't you a CEO by now? Why don't you step away from the computer and get a life outside of this forum. You seem to be in everyone's business. Just a thought

 

[chellow]

Since the Toilet Works Union and the I A M a company union don’t give any info, here is a link from AMFA that may help explain some questions. http://www.amfanational.org/images/pdf_docs/20101124_mc_caskill_bond_amendment_flier.pdf

 

[Bob Owens]

Good luck?

I have been through three mergers with the IAM and seniority has always been dovetail and with no issues.

And I guess you failed to tell the board here that WN got extra seniority at the expense of the AirTran mechanics.

How is that fair?

And say all mechanic and related go AMFA, how are they going to negotiate an industry wide seniority list with all the airlines agreeing?

Sounds pretty fair fetched to me.

How is it fair? Air Tran is the kind of place you work to get experience so you can get a job at a place like WN , thats why.

Even with the 4 year adjustment they still hit the lottery.

US and AA is a combination of two losers, neither side looks with envy at the other, both have crappy deals and bring little to the table.

If WN started operating at ISP I'd walk away from 26+ years at AA, or if I worked there, US, most of the guys I work with feel the same way.

 

[Bob Owens]

What if another commonly-accepted means of integration results in a staple? Say, for example, AA and Virgin America merge. Nearly every employee of AA was hired long before the most senior employee of VX and if an arbitration panel said that DOH was fair, that would be, for all intents and purposes, a staple job for the VX crew. Almost the same result if AA merged with jetBlue, except that there are a few senior B6 crewmembers hired before AA stopped hiring in mid-2001.

Those are some contorted examples, to be sure. As you pointed out, MB prevents one group from telling another workgroup "We're going to staple you to the bottom of our seniority list." But it certainly could work out that way given a young-enough workforce if the typical mantra of "Date of Hire" is the agreed-upon or arbitrated method.

Virgin is Non-union-that means Staple