The Airline Problem vs The Union Solution

[Kev3188]

It sounds to me as if NWA needs to be putting customer feed back cards on their aircraft...

They're already on there...In the PSK kits....

 

[PlayTheOdds]

They're already on there...In the PSK kits....

Really? I didn't know that and I am damn sure that the passengers don't either. That’s a damn good place to hide them.

 

[jenny@nw]

Really? I didn't know that and I am damn sure that the passengers don't either. That’s a damn good place to hide them.

they've been there for a while and I've given those out.

Passengers also have a choice to write letters or email also. I've gotten good comments from passengers that my manager shared with me.....which was from a written letter.

Also, they can do it on some a/c touch screens. In some places its readily available @ the counter. Not hidden at all...if you stopped getting your nose brown you may find that it was readily available after all. B)

 

[robbedagain]

i agree with you Hackman! PTO they dont need to fire the agents because then they have to find replacements for all of them and I highly doubt SCAB AIR would have any success in finding new hires.
Ad if anyone needs to be fired, it is the entire maintaince and the entire mgmt starting with the greedy a**holes of dougie and conehead

 

[Necrophilias]

i agree with you Hackman! PTO they dont need to fire the agents because then they have to find replacements for all of them and I highly doubt SCAB AIR would have any success in finding new hires.
Ad if anyone needs to be fired, it is the entire maintaince and the entire mgmt starting with the greedy a**holes of dougie and conehead

If there weren't a/c maint. issues who would publish a story like the article below?

Report: NWA Inspection Records Raise Questions
(AP) Minneapolis Reports filed by federal inspectors during the first month of the Northwest Airlines mechanics strike challenge assertions by its executives that operations are running smoothly, the Star Tribune reported Sunday.

The newspaper said the inspection reports, which it had reviewed by two independent aviation experts, describe training deficiencies among replacement workers, thin staffing, maintenance blunders and mistakes in recording aircraft repairs.

It cites one incident in which mechanics failed to spot a dead bird in the engine of a plane about to leave Memphis, but a co-pilot saw it before takeoff.

In another case, it said inspectors watched replacement workers in Philadelphia work through the night to replace a brake, a job that the experts told the newspaper usually takes experienced mechanics less than three hours.

The Star Tribune reported that Northwest declined to discuss the substance of more than 100 reports it obtained.

In a response issued Sunday, Northwest said it told the Star Tribune the airline felt it was inappropriate for it to comment on FAA internal documents.

"Northwest remains confident in the quality of its ongoing maintenance program. Our operation continues to run normally," the airline said.

The statement also said the discovery of the dead bird was the result of a standard visual preflight safety inspection by the co-pilot that normally would turn up such things.

In the run-up to the strike, Northwest insisted its replacement workers were fully licensed and trained, and that it wouldn't compromise on safety.

But Northwest has acknowledged conducting "refresher training" for replacements since the strike began to ensure proper documentation of aircraft maintenance, which the Star Tribune said is a crucial safety discipline.

Federal Aviation Administration spokeswoman Elizabeth Cory said the training was initiated after the agency's top inspection manager at Northwest discussed problems in record-keeping with the airline. That training has been completed.

Cory said the FAA does not publicly comment on how well individual airlines comply with regulations. But she said many of the FAA inspection reports found no faults, while Northwest promptly corrected shortcomings that were found. A few reports remain under investigation.

The spokeswoman also said the FAA is "seeing great improvement in the logbook area" since replacements were retrained. And she said Northwest is complying with staffing level rules.

Union leaders for Northwest's 4,200 striking mechanics told the Star Tribune that the FAA reports support their contentions that the airline's reliance on replacement mechanics has put the public at risk.

"These records provide examples that are even worse than we imagined," said John Glynn, maintenance standards coordinator for the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association.

In its statement Sunday, Northwest said several of the issues were addressed by the time the Star Tribune contacted it Tuesday. It said all repairs were completed in accordance with Boeing and Airbus maintenance procedures manuals and met the airline's maintenance standards.

"None of the items provided by the Star Tribune involved safety of flight issues," the statement said.

Since the mechanics walked out Aug. 20, Northwest has used 1,200 replacements, a few hundred managers and outside vendors to maintain and repair its planes. According to AMFA, about 40 of its members have crossed the picket lines.

The FAA raised the number of personnel assigned to Northwest from 53 to upward of 80. The additional inspectors allow the FAA to conduct more spot checks and write more reports, but the agency still can't monitor all activities at the nation's fourth-largest airline, which operates 1,400 daily flights.

The Star Tribune's report said that with hundreds of inspection reports since the strike still unavailable, it was impossible to draw definitive conclusions about safety at the airline from the sample of FAA reports it reviewed. None of the reports reviewed revealed any in-flight maintenance problems, it said.

Among other incidents the newspaper highlighted:

--An FAA inspector in New York saw a team of managers and replacements incorrectly inspect and incorrectly repair an engine blade tip. The inspector wrote that Northwest decided to fly the plane even after he told the team of possible violations "because the blade was scheduled for removal within the next 50 flight hours."

--A Northwest pilot told an FAA inspector of two "frustrating" experiences with newly trained tug drivers in Jackson, Miss., including one that nearly resulted in an on-the-ground collision. "The captain was very alarmed about the training and abilities of the tug operator," the report said.

--An FAA inspector in Indianapolis reported that a replacement who had just completed training did not know how to look up a part on the airline's computer system.

The Star Tribune said it had the FAA documents, along with dozens of Northwest's internal aircraft maintenance logs, reviewed last week by former National Transportation Safety Board member John Goglia and by John Krawczyk, a former mechanic and maintenance inspector for United Airlines with 20 years of airline maintenance experience. It said Krawczyk has no ties to Northwest or its mechanics' union. Krawczyk left United before AMFA became the union for its mechanics in 2003.

Krawczyk said the mistakes documented in the reports expose the public to danger.

Goglia, a licensed airframe and powerplant mechanic who is now a professor of aviation science at St. Louis University, said he saw evidence of training deficiencies and documentation errors throughout the inspection reports and maintenance logs.

The Star Tribune noted that the FAA inspector reports were not the first to raise questions about safety since the strike began. Three days into the walkout, an FAA inspector in the Twin Cities, Mark Lund, wrote a memo about problems he observed and gave a copy to Sen. Mark Dayton, D-Minn., who then initiated an investigation by the Office of Inspector General, which oversees the FAA. Northwest complained to the FAA about Lund and he was reassigned to desk duty.

Jim Gelbmann, state director of Dayton's Minnesota office, told the newspaper a second FAA inspector had come forward and agreed to provide information to the OIG.

OIG spokesman David Barnes said Friday that auditors and investigators are still reviewing the actions of the FAA and Northwest, including the inspector reports.

 

[robbedagain]

man if the flying public only knew that much I be willin to bet that SCAB AIR would have a tough time fillin the planes up

 

[777 fixer]

Sorry but I just can't let this "unions will be stronger" thing go. I am not in MSP so I was not able to verify this but I have no reason to doubt it either. The majority of Original Scabs up there are X-Eastern Mechanics. We have a few here but not enough to make a big deal over. From what they say about MSP, the place is over run with them. Are we not talking about mechanics that are technically still on strike? Striking Union Members crossing the picket line of another union representing the exact same craft? Boy these unions are really on top of their game.

This post either means you are repeating information you don't know is actually true and try an portary it as fact or you are lying. It also shows you really don't know what you are talking about. This should come as no suprise since by your own admission you have never been in a union.

You say you have no reason to doubt it. Let me ask you this. At your location how many strinking Eastern Airline mechancis have you worked with as a "replacement worker"? Now since your answer is a few would'nt logic say that only are few are at at MSP? Now I would say that you are liar. Why is that you ask? Becasue there are no striking Eastern Airline mechancis! Eastern Airlines went under over fifteen years ago. How can a strike still be going on at a carrier that no longer exists? So what you said is not true, i.e. a lie.

There are other reason to doubt your claim. One reason is that a lot of the ex-striking Eastern AMT's who went on strike in 1989 were already middleaged. Therefore a lot of your ex-striking Eastern AMT's are in their fifteies, sixites or even higher. Some I would imagine have passed away. The ones that are still around I would venture to guess have done things other than go to work for an airline like NWA. You will find some have left the field completly. Others went out and got jobs at other carriers. I know this from personal experience. In addition since the ex-striking Eastern AMT's know what it's like to work at an airline with the sort of problems NWA has I would say that most of them are smart enough to stay away.

 

[Necrophilias]

Oh yes, those claims are marginal.

Old Nippon proverb say: "Time flies like arrows"...."fruit flies like bananas." PTO fly like metaphorical crap that stick on wall.

AH HA HA!

 

[PlayTheOdds]

This post either means you are repeating information you don't know is actually true and try an portary it as fact or you are lying.

I am pretty sure I made it clear that this is some thing that I heard. As a matter of fact its in the first sentence of my post so congratulations on your almost decent reading comprehension.

"marginal", I like that. Come on you union Guru's, is Eastern on strike or not?

 

[Necrophilias]

I see so many articles and reports of aircraft safety issues at NW. Even with all of this information being published and/or reported we continue to read reports from the adjutancy of NW (PTO's living room) that all is fine at "Red Rudder". I suspect there are serious problems at NW.

 

[777 fixer]

I am pretty sure I made it clear that this is some thing that I heard. As a matter of fact its in the first sentence of my post so congratulations on your almost decent reading comprehension.

"marginal", I like that. Come on you union Guru's, is Eastern on strike or not?

Your response or in this case lack of one tells me that you know that you got caught in a lie. Or at the very least you got caught being very lazy in your "fact" checking. So PTO how many of your fellow "replacement workers" where you work are actual ex-Eastern Airline AMT's who went on strike?

You know something PTO the very fact you don't know if the ex-Eastern guys are still on strike or not tells everyone you don't know what you are talking about. Like I said before Eastern has been out of business for over fifteen years now. How could they be still on strike if the company no longer exists? Your ignorance about the airlines and how they work really shows. It tells me you made your orignial decsion to work for NWA based on "incomplete" information.

One last thing. You do not have to be a union "guru" to know if a particular work group is on strike or not. All you have to do is go to the National Mediation Board web site to check. Since fact checking is not your srong suit PTO I'll even provide a link for you.

< http://www.nmb.gov/publicinfo/airline-strikes.html >

 

[robbedagain]

ahh come on 777, you are given him a chance to look it up with a link! you ought to make him research it! but hey what does he know anyways, he is nothing but a low life scab! his posts sure show about how ignorant and unknowledable he is when it comes to the airline business and in particular the maintaince

 

[PlayTheOdds]

So PTO how many of your fellow "replacement workers" where you work are actual ex-Eastern Airline AMT's who went on strike?

There are three here at DTW that I am aware of. There could be more but there are three for sure.

You know something PTO the very fact you don't know if the ex-Eastern guys are still on strike or not tells everyone you don't know what you are talking about.

Oh they are still on strike 777 fixer. The question presented to the Union Gurus was for your benefit not mine.

Like I said before Eastern has been out of business for over fifteen years now. How could they be still on strike if the company no longer exists?

I guess it would fall under the same guidelines that a Labor Contract never expires. You are going to have to check with the Gurus for more info on that.

Since fact checking is not your srong suit PTO I'll even provide a link for you.

How civil of you.

 

[777 fixer]

There are three here at DTW that I am aware of. There could be more but there are three for sure.
Oh they are still on strike 777 fixer. The question presented to the Union Gurus was for your benefit not mine.
I guess it would fall under the same guidelines that a Labor Contract never expires. You are going to have to check with the Gurus for more info on that.
How civil of you.

Have to admit I'm enjoying this. You keep diging this hole deeper and deeper for yourself.

Why don't you ask those "ex Eastern" guys when they hired in at Eastern. If they hired in 1989 that should tell you that Frank Lorenzo hired them to be "replacement workers". How sad would that be. The only time they can get a job at an airline is when there's labor unrest.

PTO your claim that they are still on strike has already proven to be false. Why you persist to keep repeating this lie is beyond me. Or are you going to say that the info on the NMB website is not accurate? Let's see, strike started 3/4/1989 and ended 1/17/91.

I know very well that contracts under the NMB do not expire. However as stated on the NMB website the strike ended over fifteen years ago. The company for which the contract covered no longer exists. Therfore the contract only exists in a "historical" context.

 

[PlayTheOdds]

Why don't you ask those "ex Eastern" guys when they hired in at Eastern. If they hired in 1989 that should tell you that Frank Lorenzo hired them to be "replacement workers".

They said that they went on strike while at Eastern. Didn't say a word about being replacement workers.

Or are you going to say that the info on the NMB website is not accurate? Let's see, strike started 3/4/1989 and ended 1/17/91.

I guess its like the DOT stats are just a numbers game. What would happen if you were to get the rights of "Eastern Airlines" and reopened that once proud airline? How long do you think it would take the IAM to come knocking on your door? Do tell us 777 fixer, what does bring a strike to an end?