The Airline Problem vs The Union Solution

[Necrophilias]

yeah all I need is just a thing of popcorn my ice tea and Im gonna watch it!

PTO is MIA so I'll check back after lunch.

Chao Ong

 

[PlayTheOdds]

PTO is MIA so I'll check back after lunch.

Well Necro what is the unions grand plan to turn unionism around?

 

[Necrophilias]

Well Necro what is the unions grand plan to turn unionism around?

As I stated a couple of posts ago, this revival of sorts will be born of change rather than history. I feel compelled to point out asmuch since you seem to think that the future of organized labor is all about the NW lockout and/or labor history as you understand it.

Breaking away from "old school" governing labor bodies is a must if the organized labor is to advance, grow and prosper. The Teamsters and AMFA already understand this. The AMFA effort at NWA was far from perfect but let's not be too hard on them since any union or governing body that is functional is only a work in progress. AMFA learned hard lessons from the NW debacle and will be better for the experience.

A union such as the IAM is only holding on and not really growing. The IAM has also hurt it's own image by cooperating with NW during the AMFA lockout. Working people have too many trust issues with the IAM.

Let us also address the SCAB situation at NW. Safety standards, training, work rules, benefits and compensation all took a hit when SCABS crossed over the picket line. In the end the SCABS at NW might do more to help organize labor than organized labor could have done for themselves.

 

[local 12 proud]

Well Necro what is the unions grand plan to turn unionism around?

Thats rather a moot point as long as scum of the earth bottom feeders like yourself are willing to take the bargaining tool and crap all over it.

 

[PlayTheOdds]

As I stated a couple of posts ago, this revival of sorts will be born of change rather than history. I feel compelled to point out asmuch since you seem to think that the future of organized labor is all about the NW lockout and/or labor history as you understand it.

The NWA strike is but an example of what needs to change about how unions operate. I am not so sure as what you are referring to as "labor history" for the early labor unions did their jobs and performed for the members. It is the unions since about the mid-seventies that I have issues with. They were once bodies that worked for the members and now they are bodies that steal from the members and take kickbacks from the companies. They have also let legislation go unchecked to the point they have been rendered useless.

Breaking away from "old school" governing labor bodies is a must if the organized labor is to advance, grow and prosper. The Teamsters and AMFA already understand this. The AMFA effort at NWA was far from perfect but let's not be too hard on them since any union or governing body that is functional is only a work in progress. AMFA learned hard lessons from the NW debacle and will be better for the experience.

I am not so sure about this but I really don't know one way or the other. I will say that if this is indeed the case they have a very long and hard learning curve ahead of them.

A union such as the IAM is only holding on and not really growing. The IAM has also hurt it's own image by cooperating with NW during the AMFA lockout. Working people have too many trust issues with the IAM.

I agree with you 100% here but it is going to take the people/members to get rid of them. Even with the distrust people are going to have a hard time letting them go. Lets take Kev for example (no pun intended here.) He and his co-workers all know that they belong to a Scab Union yet I have heard nothing on the property of the ramp getting rid of the IAM. They might #### and grumble about them but they will never take the steps to eradicate them.

Let us also address the SCAB situation at NW. Safety standards, training, work rules, benefits and compensation all took a hit when SCABS crossed over the picket line. In the end the SCABS at NW might do more to help organize labor than organized labor could have done for themselves.

That is what I have been telling these guys since all of this started. The members have become complacent with their corrupt unions and as each one accepts concessions and blows strike after strike they will get mad and only then will change happen. I do disagree on the safety standards and training taking a hit, as long as I have been here it has been topnotch. I do have a problem with the six day work weeks but I have been told by the AMFA Scabs it has always been like that. There are some other issues I have as well but as a contractor you learn to adapt rather quickly to the petty stuff because every company is different.

 

[Necrophilias]

The NWA strike is but an example of what needs to change about how unions operate. I am not so sure as what you are referring to as "labor history" for the early labor unions did their jobs and performed for the members. It is the unions since about the mid-seventies that I have issues with. They were once bodies that worked for the members and now they are bodies that steal from the members and take kickbacks from the companies. They have also let legislation go unchecked to the point they have been rendered useless.

Actually unions in the USA began loosing power in the 1960s. The last pro union President was John Kennedy. That was a long, long time ago. This was also when most large unions stopped being progressive.

I am not so sure about this but I really don't know one way or the other. I will say that if this is indeed the case they have a very long and hard learning curve ahead of them.

Out of a need survive the unions will need to move foward on an accelerated learning curve.

I agree with you 100% here but it is going to take the people/members to get rid of them. Even with the distrust people are going to have a hard time letting them go. Lets take Kev for example (no pun intended here.) He and his co-workers all know that they belong to a Scab Union yet I have heard nothing on the property of the ramp getting rid of the IAM. They might #### and grumble about them but they will never take the steps to eradicate them.

As the NW beatdown continues every single employee left on property will develop a "what's to lose" sort of attitude. If they haven't arrived at this point yet, they haven't lost enough. FEAR NOT! The shameless execs at NW will keep taking from employees and customers.


That is what I have been telling these guys since all of this started. The members have become complacent with their corrupt unions and as each one accepts concessions and blows strike after strike they will get mad and only then will change happen. I do disagree on the safety standards and training taking a hit, as long as I have been here it has been topnotch. I do have a problem with the six day work weeks but I have been told by the AMFA Scabs it has always been like that. There are some other issues I have as well but as a contractor you learn to adapt rather quickly to the petty stuff because every company is different.

Safety and standards took serious hit in recent years. These issues are also pretty damned far from "top notch". Mechanics I've known who retired from NW during the 1990s were complaining about this as are the recent retirees. My neighbor is still raising hell about this issue.

I seriously doubt that NW has always pushed for a six day work week. LOL

In the end the heavy handed tactics of NW executives combined with labor strife and so many a/c maint. issues will force both old and new unions to come after NW if the exist (which I doubt they will).

What I really see in the long run at NW is AA buying key routes and assets. The last thing AA will take is NW employees.

 

[PlayTheOdds]

Safety and standards took serious hit in recent years. These issues are also pretty damned far from "top notch". Mechanics I've known who retired from NW during the 1990s were complaining about this as are the recent retirees. My neighbor is still raising hell about this issue.

Do you care to elaborate on some of these safety issues? Some specific examples would really be nice. Where was the unions when all these safety issues were going on?

 

[robbedagain]

the scabs have been doing shoddy maintaince since last aug. since then weekly emergency landings and aborted take offs. cancelling flights. using improper tools to change a wheel. taking a 4hr engine change into 2 days. face it scabs, you dont know how to fix a plane

 

[jenny@nw]

the scabs have been doing shoddy maintaince since last aug. since then weekly emergency landings and aborted take offs. cancelling flights. using improper tools to change a wheel. taking a 4hr engine change into 2 days. face it scabs, you dont know how to fix a plane

took 8hrs to change a tire on one of my flights. Scab didn't like it when I asked him if the plane was jacked up..... think he complained...what a whiner...kinda reminds me of PTO
legit question to ask, don't ya think? :huh:

 

[QA4Jet-A]

took 8hrs to change a tire on one of my flights. Scab didn't like it when I asked him if the plane was jacked up..... think he complained...what a whiner...kinda reminds me of PTO
legit question to ask, don't ya think? :huh:

more like "Jacked up" in Highway Robbery.... 8 hours? I've never had Rubber last that long. h34r:

 

[Necrophilias]

Perhaps a good place for me to begin would be at Japan's Narita International Airport. This is where your filthy, broken down, shadow of a former airline left me stranded for several days.

I was told there were no parts available and that the next flight from the USA also had mechanical problems. Several days later I was final on a different airline and back home. THAT DID IT! I haven't been back on NWA since that time and I don't intend to ever fly your PIECE OF JUNK AIRLINE again.

If you guys can't fix airplanes why in the H*** did your rotten employer hire you? I've arrived at the conclusion that the current mechanics at NW exist only because they are SCABS. This doesn't have a damn thing to do with fixing airplanes or providing AIR TRANSPORT (which is supposed to the the function of your lousy airline).

A/C maintenace at NW...WHAT A JOKE!

 

[robbedagain]

took 8hrs to change a tire on one of my flights. Scab didn't like it when I asked him if the plane was jacked up..... think he complained...what a whiner...kinda reminds me of PTO
legit question to ask, don't ya think? :huh:

wow! 8 hrs. that must be a record! lets see here now:
2 days to do an engine change an 8 hr job to change the tire! sounds much like a record breaking maintaince to me!
I wouldnt be one bit surprised jenny if it was that lowlife
filthy scab pto was the one who got mad at you for a true comment you made to him about the plane being jacked up.
wonder how long it takes him to change a flat on his car, or if he even has a car?

 

[Necrophilias]

wow! 8 hrs. that must be a record! lets see here now:
2 days to do an engine change an 8 hr job to change the tire! sounds much like a record breaking maintaince to me!
I wouldnt be one bit surprised jenny if it was that lowlife
filthy scab pto was the one who got mad at you for a true comment you made to him about the plane being jacked up.
wonder how long it takes him to change a flat on his car, or if he even has a car?

A/C maintenance concerns as stated by FAA Inspectors and union mechanics.

FAA union: Inspector's memo leads others to raise concerns
by Mark Zdechlik, Minnesota Public Radio
September 8, 2005


More FAA inspectors have reportedly come forward to express concerns about the safety of Northwest Airlines planes, while the airline's mechanics union is on strike. (MPR Photo/Mark Zdechlik)

The union that represents Federal Aviation Administration inspectors says more FAA personnel are stepping forward and raising safety concerns about Northwest Airlines. A Twin Cities-based inspector wrote to FAA management three days into the strike, alleging maintenance errors by Northwest managers and replacement workers. The FAA says the airline is safe and no other inspectors have come forward with similar concerns.


St. Paul, Minn. — Just a few days into the now nearly three-week-old Northwest Airlines mechanics strike, FAA inspector Mark Lund wrote a memo to FAA management sharply criticizing the maintenance work of some replacement employees and management mechanics.

Minnesota Public Radio News obtained a copy of Lund's memo from a source close to the situation, and the FAA has authenticated the document.

Lund cited numerous incidents of maintenance errors.



Inspector's recommendations

-- A manager unable to conduct an engine test of an A-320 aircraft, because he can't find the correct switches on the instrument panel.

-- A replacement worker trying to assess the condition of brake wear pins. but unaware the brakes must be engaged for a proper inspection.

-- Repairs on a DC-10 wing fuel tank completed without a Northwest-required "OK to close" inspection. The omission was discovered, the tank was reopened, and the inspection completed.

-- A Northwest manager planning to allow a DC-10 to fly to Hawaii, even though human waste from a damaged lavatory duct had spilled into an electrical equipment bay housing flight and navigational components. The FAA intervened and ensured the plane was cleaned and checked.

Lund's memo concluded the situation at Northwest "jeopardizes life or property."

He called on FAA management to bolster scrutiny of Northwest, and require the airline to pare back its flight operations to prevent maintenance errors.

Northwest has declined to comment on Lund's memo, and instead reissued a statement saying that safety is of paramount importance to every employee at Northwest Airlines.

Lund's memo coincided with a big increase in the number of Northwest planes out of service early in the strike. The company's Web site now indicates the number of planes out of service has declined significantly, and is lower than it was before the strike.

Several people have come forward stating that they are concurring with what inspector Mark Lund is saying.
- Linda Goodrich, FAA inspectors' union

In a letter sent Tuesday to the striking mechanics union, Northwest said its technical operations in the Twin Cities and Detroit are functioning smoothly.

Lund is not talking with reporters. But officials with the union that represents FAA inspectors are.

Linda Goodrich is the national vice president for flight standards with the Professional Airways Systems Specialists, known as PASS.

Goodrich says numerous FAA inspectors assigned to Northwest and other carriers continue see the same maintenance shortfalls at Northwest that prompted Lund to write his safety memorandum.

"Several people have come forward stating that they are concurring with what Mark is saying," says Goodrich. "And they, too, want attention to safety, and they're raising the concerns through the proper channels."

But FAA spokesman Greg Martin says none of the agency's other roughly 80 full-time inspectors assigned to Northwest have contacted agency management to express concerns similar to those in the Lund memo.

"We have received no reports similar in content or scope of Mr. Lund, or anything to indicate that Northwest is not flying in a safe and airworthy manner," says Martin. "Certainly I can't confirm what the union may or may not have received, other than it would probably be more helpful, and in everybody interest, that if they are receiving such reports that they would submit them to us."

Martin says Northwest's operations are safe. He says the FAA has not changed its oversight of the airline since receiving Lund's list of concerns.

Martin says Lund's memo and complaints about Lund from Northwest triggered extensive investigations by both the FAA and the Department of Transportation's Office of Inspector General.

One inquiry is examining Lund's safety claims. The second is looking into allegations from Northwest that Lund, himself a union activist although not affiliated with Northwest's mechanics union, has acted unprofessionally and intimidated Northwest's replacement workforce.

Linda Goodrich from the union that represents Lund and other FAA inspectors says documenting maintenance concerns through the normal channels does not appear to be getting FAA management's attention, and she expects frustrated inspectors will soon take their complaints to the next level.

"If you see a systemic problem and you see lack of change, then you are left with no other choice but to start filing a letter of investigation, notifying the facility that you're investigating a particular problem. And that leads to a potential enforcement action and I know that that's where they're at now," says Goodrich. "They're starting to fill out the paperwork getting into the next phase, because the carrier's not changing the way they're doing their business."

The FAA says it hopes to have a clearer understanding of the various claims Lund and Northwest management have made by sometime next week.

 

[robbedagain]

those are some very serious claims that the FAA inspector has made. It sure ashame that although he went thru the channels, still nothing has been done as is usual by the tombstone agency. I feel that the only changes that will be made significantly is if a plane load goes down. I woul dhope that wont be the case but given the failure of both the FAA MGMT and NWA MGMT it appears not to be the case. Replace those dirty filthy scabs now and bring back the pros

 

[Necrophilias]

This evening I'll be serving as the keynote speaker following a dinner and prior to a dance. This being the case I will not be available to debate with PTO the evening but fear not! On Sunday am I shall return. During the rest of today I will also be waiting for PTO's attempted rebuttals.