Teamsters "raiding" TWU?

[AMFAinMIAMI]

Wow nothing changes with you guys. Let me say again - amtcraig1 and brain is the same person, ok do we have that set for this week. And O Yea I should get this out of the way for TWUinformer I go by "no", REPEAT "NO" other names on here!!!! So for everyone’s info Southwest Airlines and American Airlines are two different airlines, their history is very different, and very important to know, they are run very differently.
So when someone from southwest tells you how it's going to be with amfa at AA please take it with a grain of salt. Hey AMFAinMIAMI here at Alaska we had other work groups with us to, GSE and Fleet Service. That was until they were walked off the property to never return..

amtcraig1

If you paid any attention to what I wrote and you understood GSE and automotive are the same thing. Fleet service is the ramp AMFA does not represent the ramp so what are you talking about? Just what job do you perform at Alaska?

Tells us, how long have you been in the industry?

I have been working on commercial jets since 1970's. I am working now with airline #5 which will be my last. All of the others gone. So I've seen all the bs games the management teams of the airline have come up with no matter what they called it.
I have also walked a picket line, have you? I would say NO, you haven't. Your part of this new generation who thinks it all should be handed to you just because you have an A&P if you are a mechanic? What I fought for in the past along with others you take for granted and the unions of today, give it away setting us back decades.

 

[lineguy43]

amtcraig1

If you paid any attention to what I wrote and you understood GSE and automotive are the same thing. Fleet service is the ramp AMFA does not represent the ramp so what are you talking about? Just what job do you perform at Alaska?

Tells us, how long have you been in the industry?

I have been working on commercial jets since 1970's. I am working now with airline #5 which will be my last. All of the others gone. So I've seen all the bs games the management teams of the airline have come up with no matter what they called it.
I have also walked a picket line, have you? I would say NO, you haven't. Your part of this new generation who thinks it all should be handed to you just because you have an A&P if you are a mechanic? What I fought for in the past along with others you take for granted and the unions of today, give it away setting us back decades.

Hey AMFAinMiami I do not know if Alaska had cleaners they might have been classified as fleet service there don't know. We were forced to take the cleaners at NWA due to class and craft rules. They also had virtually all the grievances at my local in MEM as well. All our efforts were to fight their battles. Again even a craft union like AMFA is at a major disadvantage due to class and craft rules. It might work at an airline that didn't have cleaners. I don't mind other crafts machinists, GSE, etc being in our union but no one else. Hell plumbers and electricians unions don't have to take janitors into their unions be we do WTF? Until these rules change I won't belong to a union again as an A@P. But if you have to pick one I still stand behind AMFA even though I paid with my career.

 

[Kev3188]

Hey AMFAinMIAMI here at Alaska we had other work groups with us to, GSE and Fleet Service. That was until they were walked off the property to never return..

AS rampers are IAM. AFAIK, they didn't have cleaners, though I may be off on that.

When you say "with us," did you mean that they supported you?

 

[Brain]

1AA. Industrial unionists - elitist??? Wow,that's a stretch..
I'm sure they would not call themselves elitist..just hard working men and women trying to provide for their families. I would bet if they looked and listened to some of you, they would find AMFA/you the elitist.
AMFAinMIAMI. I have been working in the airlines since the mid 70, all 121 operators. Yes also on the picket line thing. To me it sounds like we are from the same generation. And your right every thing should be handed to me for I am an A & P mechs!!!!!That is why I am a member of AMFA. Come on an A & P, We are more important and deserving then the lower (less important) lower class workers!!!!!

 

[TWU informer]

snip....
So for everyone’s info Southwest Airlines and American Airlines are two different airlines, their history is very different, and very important to know, they are run very differently.
So when someone from southwest tells you how it's going to be with amfa at AA please take it with a grain of salt....snip

And the same can be said for Northwest, UAL, Alaska, Mesaba, Ozark, Southwest ect..

What happened or is still happening with AMFA at every one of those carriers is different so why do the industrial unionist try to use those stories as a tool against AMFA?

What happened at Northwest is not what happened and United.
What happened at United is not what happened at Alaska.
Ect, ect, ect,

WE THE MEMBERS will write our own story with AMFA at American Airlines and it will be a different story than each of those other stories.

And if the AMT's of this industry ever pull their heads out and get everyone into ONE union, the airline management will stop using one industrial union concessions against the others. The AMFA idea has not failed because it has not been tried. And as long as fools fail to grasp that concept then the industrial unions will keep us divided into different unions, as in IBT,TWU,IAM, AMFA and airline management will continue to use that divide as a mean to decimate this profession. Meanwhile we all fight amongst ourselves, blame each other, or one of the unions and we never try the simple idea of everyone getting into ONE UNION!

Before deregulation of the Airline Industry, AMT's being in seperate industrial unions was successful because the Government regulated pricing and landing slots. Each of the Industrial Unions would leap frog over the other unions in negotiations, constantly making pay and benefit gains and increasing the size of the work force. Since the 1978 Airline Deregulation Act, the Airline Management has reveresed that history and now we are in a race to the bottom in every aspect of those past gains, with management using the concessions of each industrial union as a tool to reduce the cost a their Airline.

Because we are idiots and remain divided and continously fighting with each other and blaming each others union, the Airline Management sits back and enjoys stomping our asses in the ground. This is why card drives for change keeping popping up at every carrier in the industry over and over and over.

Maybe someday, before it is too late, we will be smart enough to understand the AMFA idea of ALL MECHANICS in a single CRAFT UNION where every dollar,dime, and penny along with every thought of every second of everyday is SPENT advancing and protecting this profession.

AMT's like yourself are against the idea, yet it has never been tried.

AMT's like yourself claim the idea has already failed, yet is has never been tried.

AMT's like yourself advocate the status quo of representation which has represented the MAJORITY of this profession for over 60 years....and that has been tried and has FAILED.

Think about that and get back with me....

 

[1AA]

Hey AMFAinMiami I do not know if Alaska had cleaners they might have been classified as fleet service there don't know. We were forced to take the cleaners at NWA due to class and craft rules. They also had virtually all the grievances at my local in MEM as well. All our efforts were to fight their battles. Again even a craft union like AMFA is at a major disadvantage due to class and craft rules. It might work at an airline that didn't have cleaners. I don't mind other crafts machinists, GSE, etc being in our union but no one else. Hell plumbers and electricians unions don't have to take janitors into their unions be we do WTF? Until these rules change I won't belong to a union again as an A@P. But if you have to pick one I still stand behind AMFA even though I paid with my career.

The one drive we had that went to a filing and failed by a very, very small amount of cards after the TWU and AA with the blessing of the NMB determined at American who is eligible and who is not at American is on record and that is what the organizers are using as a reference for eligibility. We know who is in and out. The TWU and the company can try to pull a fast one but they already determined who is eligible. It is on record. We learn from our mistakes. This time there will be no mistakes. There will be attempts to discredit cards and inflate the list but it will be harder for the TWU and company to prove.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

1AA. Industrial unionists - elitist??? Wow,that's a stretch..
I'm sure they would not call themselves elitist..just hard working men and women trying to provide for their families. I would bet if they looked and listened to some of you, they would find AMFA/you the elitist.
AMFAinMIAMI. I have been working in the airlines since the mid 70, all 121 operators. Yes also on the picket line thing. To me it sounds like we are from the same generation. And your right every thing should be handed to me for I am an A & P mechs!!!!!That is why I am a member of AMFA. Come on an A & P, We are more important and deserving then the lower (less important) lower class workers!!!!!

Brain

maybe we are from the same generation but far from the same mind set. I never said I thought the other work groups were lesser class than mine. Every class and craft has a function, from Pilots, to F/A to Ramp, to a/c maintenence. You are correct everyone has the right to feed his/her family. You are incorrect to the point that just because you have a A&P things shoud be given to you. Most of the now generation is looked at as parts changers by the airlines. Here at AA its just change the big piece. Throw parts at it sooner or later we'll get the right one. AMFA does not think of itself as an Elite union at least I hope so. It does though represent the AMT's of the airlines and all the groups that the RLA tells them they have too. The IAM,TWU,IBT will represent anyone and every one. The days of strength in numbers is over.
Thats old time industrial union thought. NWA and EAL are the two carriers that I can think of of the top who have struck and both have lost thier jobs but it was the members that voted to strike the union leaders don't dictate the strike. Both carriers were represented by two different unions. One AMFA the other IAM. When the company takes and takes at one point the members have to say enough is enough. ASK most amts from those carriers would they do it again I think you will get a YES.. ASK the memebers on the floor at AA if they would today and the answer would be "no" not a good time. I have a boat payment my kids are in school, any excuse to just bow to the wishes of the Almighty AA.
The TWU Intl. has been bending over too long its time for them to go.

As I have said before I don't care what union represents the other class and crafts, how much they make, if they put up a picket line I will not SCAB across it. So no matter if I am AMFA represented or TWU or IAM unions are supposed to back one another. The Pilots at one time used to allow F/A but now they are on thier own. Look that up

 

[1AA]

Well, well, well, can you guess who I got a phone call from this afternoon?
It wasn't the cable guy.
It wasn't the satellite TV guy.
It wasn't my neighbor either.

It was a Teamsters representative trying to sell me the Teamsters CRAP.
How in the hell did they get my telephone number?
I got a package in the mail from them. Then they call me.
Pay attention you Teamsters supporters.
The TWU is giving the Teamsters our addresses and telephone numbers. What else are they giving them?
We pay the TWU money to sell our information to the Teamsters.
Our own union is selling us out again because they know we are pissed. They asked the Teamsters to help them out by creating a diversion. Most of us knew that from the beginning. The TWU has lost control of its membership in the M&R group.

DO NOT BELIEVE FOR ONE SECOND THAT THE TEAMSTERS ARE GOING TO FILE FOR A REPRESENTATIONAL ELECTION!!!


Fill out those AMFA cards so we can put a stop to this crap!

 

[odie01]

Well, well, well, can you guess who I got a phone call from this afternoon?
It wasn't the cable guy.
It wasn't the satellite TV guy.
It wasn't my neighbor either.

It was a Teamsters representative trying to sell me the Teamsters CRAP.
How in the hell did they get my telephone number?
I got a package in the mail from them. Then they call me.
Pay attention you Teamsters supporters.
The TWU is giving the Teamsters our addresses and telephone numbers. What else are they giving them?
We pay the TWU money to sell our information to the Teamsters.
Our own union is selling us out again because they know we are pissed. They asked the Teamsters to help them out by creating a diversion. Most of us knew that from the beginning. The TWU has lost control of its membership in the M&R group.

DO NOT BELIEVE FOR ONE SECOND THAT THE TEAMSTERS ARE GOING TO FILE FOR A REPRESENTATIONAL ELECTION!!!


Fill out those AMFA cards so we can put a stop to this crap!

...

 

[Ed Norton]

The U.S. labor movement is a sham! Does anyone need any more proof. Union big wigs work hand in hand with corporate big wigs. They provide a docile work force which can be easily manipulated, intimidated and exploited. If anyone reads any more and if you can find it, this is a good book which digs into the cozy relationship between big business and big union : Taking Care of Busines. http://www.amazon.co...k/dp/B008A5XNHY
" Publisher Comments:
In this original, colorful history of "business unionism," Paul Buhle explains how trade union leaders in the United States became remote from the workers they claimed to represent as they allied with the very corporate executives and government officials who persistently opposed labor's interests.
At the center of the tale are three of the most powerful labor leaders of the past century: Samuel Gompers, George Meany, and Lane Kirkland, successive presidents of the American Federation of Labor and its descendent, the AFL-CIO. Many other labor leaders, from John L. Lewis to Walter Reuther, receive in-depth treatment.
Taking Care of Business demonstrates how a union hierarchy heavily populated by former radicals thwarted women and people of color from joining unions, suppressed shop floor militance, and colluded with business and government at home and abroad. Buhle shows how these leaders defeated generations of radical union members who sought a more democratic, class-based approach for the movement."

 

[Bob Owens]

The U.S. labor movement is a sham! Does anyone need any more proof. Union big wigs work hand in hand with corporate big wigs. They provide a docile work force which can be easily manipulated, intimidated and exploited. If anyone reads any more and if you can find it, this is a good book which digs into the cozy relationship between big business and big union : Taking Care of Busines. http://www.amazon.co...k/dp/B008A5XNHY
" Publisher Comments:
In this original, colorful history of "business unionism," Paul Buhle explains how trade union leaders in the United States became remote from the workers they claimed to represent as they allied with the very corporate executives and government officials who persistently opposed labor's interests.
At the center of the tale are three of the most powerful labor leaders of the past century: Samuel Gompers, George Meany, and Lane Kirkland, successive presidents of the American Federation of Labor and its descendent, the AFL-CIO. Many other labor leaders, from John L. Lewis to Walter Reuther, receive in-depth treatment.
Taking Care of Business demonstrates how a union hierarchy heavily populated by former radicals thwarted women and people of color from joining unions, suppressed shop floor militance, and colluded with business and government at home and abroad. Buhle shows how these leaders defeated generations of radical union members who sought a more democratic, class-based approach for the movement."

try this link;

http://www.amazon.com/Taking-Care-Business-Kirkland-American/dp/1583670033

 

[whatajoke]

are you advocating a change.

 

[Anomaly]

The U.S. labor movement is a sham! Does anyone need any more proof. Union big wigs work hand in hand with corporate big wigs. They provide a docile work force which can be easily manipulated, intimidated and exploited. If anyone reads any more and if you can find it, this is a good book which digs into the cozy relationship between big business and big union : Taking Care of Busines. http://www.amazon.co...k/dp/B008A5XNHY
" Publisher Comments:
In this original, colorful history of "business unionism," Paul Buhle explains how trade union leaders in the United States became remote from the workers they claimed to represent as they allied with the very corporate executives and government officials who persistently opposed labor's interests.
At the center of the tale are three of the most powerful labor leaders of the past century: Samuel Gompers, George Meany, and Lane Kirkland, successive presidents of the American Federation of Labor and its descendent, the AFL-CIO. Many other labor leaders, from John L. Lewis to Walter Reuther, receive in-depth treatment.
Taking Care of Business demonstrates how a union hierarchy heavily populated by former radicals thwarted women and people of color from joining unions, suppressed shop floor militance, and colluded with business and government at home and abroad. Buhle shows how these leaders defeated generations of radical union members who sought a more democratic, class-based approach for the movement."

I read this book several years ago but would not characterize it the same way at all. In fact, re-familiarizing myself with more recent reviews, I can hardly come to the same conclusions you do that labor leaders worked hand in hand with corporate "big wigs".

The Teamsters were never included in the negative writings of this book and in fact took great and purposeful strides to include all members including women and people of color into the common ranks of members. This prejudice, or lack of equality is much of what this book describes.

 

[Anomaly]

Brain

maybe we are from the same generation but far from the same mind set. I never said I thought the other work groups were lesser class than mine. Every class and craft has a function, from Pilots, to F/A to Ramp, to a/c maintenence. You are correct everyone has the right to feed his/her family. You are incorrect to the point that just because you have a A&P things shoud be given to you. Most of the now generation is looked at as parts changers by the airlines. Here at AA its just change the big piece. Throw parts at it sooner or later we'll get the right one. AMFA does not think of itself as an Elite union at least I hope so. It does though represent the AMT's of the airlines and all the groups that the RLA tells them they have too. The IAM,TWU,IBT will represent anyone and every one. The days of strength in numbers is over.
Thats old time industrial union thought. NWA and EAL are the two carriers that I can think of of the top who have struck and both have lost thier jobs but it was the members that voted to strike the union leaders don't dictate the strike. Both carriers were represented by two different unions. One AMFA the other IAM. When the company takes and takes at one point the members have to say enough is enough. ASK most amts from those carriers would they do it again I think you will get a YES.. ASK the memebers on the floor at AA if they would today and the answer would be "no" not a good time. I have a boat payment my kids are in school, any excuse to just bow to the wishes of the Almighty AA.
The TWU Intl. has been bending over too long its time for them to go.

As I have said before I don't care what union represents the other class and crafts, how much they make, if they put up a picket line I will not SCAB across it. So no matter if I am AMFA represented or TWU or IAM unions are supposed to back one another. The Pilots at one time used to allow F/A but now they are on thier own. Look that up

Teamsters, or any union can request a member list of information from the company. The NMB condones this type of informational sharing and is afforded by law.

 

[Anomaly]

The U.S. labor movement is a sham! Does anyone need any more proof. Union big wigs work hand in hand with corporate big wigs. They provide a docile work force which can be easily manipulated, intimidated and exploited. If anyone reads any more and if you can find it, this is a good book which digs into the cozy relationship between big business and big union : Taking Care of Busines. http://www.amazon.co...k/dp/B008A5XNHY
" Publisher Comments:
In this original, colorful history of "business unionism," Paul Buhle explains how trade union leaders in the United States became remote from the workers they claimed to represent as they allied with the very corporate executives and government officials who persistently opposed labor's interests.
At the center of the tale are three of the most powerful labor leaders of the past century: Samuel Gompers, George Meany, and Lane Kirkland, successive presidents of the American Federation of Labor and its descendent, the AFL-CIO. Many other labor leaders, from John L. Lewis to Walter Reuther, receive in-depth treatment.
Taking Care of Business demonstrates how a union hierarchy heavily populated by former radicals thwarted women and people of color from joining unions, suppressed shop floor militance, and colluded with business and government at home and abroad. Buhle shows how these leaders defeated generations of radical union members who sought a more democratic, class-based approach for the movement."

About the author of this book;

Paul Buhle was born in Champaign, Illinois, on September 27, 1944. His mother was a nurse with the maiden name of Pearle Drake. His father, Merlyn Buhle, was a geologist. On December 30, 1963, Paul Buhle married a woman who later earned a doctorate in history and co-authored several works with Buhle.
Buhle graduated from the University of Illinois in 1966, where he had been a spokesperson for the chapter of Students for a Democratic Society's antiwar activities. He received a Master's degree from the University of Connecticut (in 1967) and a Ph.D. from the University of Wisconsin–Madison (in 1975). He had been active in the civil rights movement in SDS, and a member for some months of the Socialist Labor Party.[sup] [/sup]In 2006-07, he was one of the founding figures of the new Students for a Democratic Society, and more recently a leader of the Movement for a Democratic Society.
Buhle was founding editor of the journal Radical America (1967–1999), an unofficial organ of Students for a Democratic Society,[sup][3][/sup] founder of Cultural Correspondence (1977–83), a journal of popular culture studies, and founder and director of the Oral History of the American Left archive at New York University in 1976. In Rhode Island, he co-founded the Rhode Island Labor History Society, was active in labor history and labor support activities and produced several popular histories of the state's labor movement. He also produced Vanishing Rhode Island, a pictorial history and plea for preservation; and with his students, Underground Rhode Island.' He has contributed frequently to the journals and newspapers The Nation, The Village Voice, Monthly Review, Jewish Currents, The Chronicle of Higher Education and The San Francisco Chronicle.
Buhle is the co-author of four books on the history of the Hollywood Blacklist and the editor of a series of graphic non-fiction works by American comics artists and writers, among them Harvey Pekar, Sabrina Jones and Sharon Rudahl.