Teamsters "raiding" TWU?

[WNMECH]

There go the twinkies, and the jobs. Didn't you learn anything from failed NWA strike? In the end the corporations will win, and the workers pay for the golden parachutes by going on the unemployment line.

Responsibility is very much part of good representation. Read the full article before you comment.

http://www.sacbee.com/2012/11/15/4988814/teamsters-bakery-workers-should.html

It appears that even with all the IBT analysts begging the members to vote for concessions, 47% of them voted NO.

Even with the teamsters so-called secret ballot, they could only get 53% of those who actually voted to support more concessions after giving concessions before.

I will stand with the NWA AMFA members and the bakers union and the 47% who said NO to concessions.

These people take the bullet for all unionized people when they stand up and say NO MORE concessions.

They should be backed and supported in their decisions not attacked.

The NWA AMFA mechanics drove AMT wages up and pushed our bar higher in the years before the strike.
During the strike, the IAM and other industrial unions worked to help NWA to damage the interests of all AMTs in this country.
They did not care because they still get dues money from truckers, doormen, dish washers ect.....

The IBT proved to us at SWA that we were not a concern of theirs. With too few members, we were at the back of a long bus. And with AMT numbers decreasing in the whole industry, these big unions will care less and less about all of you.

AMFA is the only group that is built to protect AMTs and even if you are not a member, you should want to combine forces to protect our craft.

Did YOU not learn anything from the NWA strike?
You should have learned that the industrial unions do not care about you or your craft. Only your dues.

 

[Bob Owens]

There go the twinkies, and the jobs. Didn't you learn anything from failed NWA strike? In the end the corporations will win, and the workers pay for the golden parachutes by going on the unemployment line.

Responsibility is very much part of good representation. Read the full article before you comment.

http://www.sacbee.co...ers-should.html

If thats the case then why fork over dues to any union?

 

[Anomaly]

I have been very specific on this forum as to how we love the autonomy provided us from AMFA here at SWA.
We control our own negotiations, our local, our money and we vote on everything.
If someone here "fails" us, we can recall them if we want.
No one at AMFA national tells us what to do.
We are AMFA and we make all of our own decisions.

Now you claim that "you failed" and that "AMFA can't work".
Please be specific on your failures and the failures to want to claim are due to AMFA.
The vagueness of your claims makes it impossible to validate them.

It all seems to me that some people need to have other people take care of all their decisions for them.
Even if those other people don't work in the same jobs or even the same industry as them.
They would trust their careers to truckers and plumbers and to people who don't know a thing about aircraft maintenance.

We here at SWA can make our own decisions and if we make bad decisions or fail at something, we will not be putting the blame on AMFA as a whole.

Let me know how you failed and how you think AMFA failed. It would help the discussion.

Craig, i don't know what company you work for or anything about your claims that AMFA can't work. Give me a little background if you can.

Come on guy....

There are only two choices and based on one of his posts, my guess is he does not work for Southwest (although the second part of the sentence seems to point out a common problem)

"an hourly wage thats is market based to keep me in the middle with Comparator Carriers... O and a Contract we can't seem to enforce."

 

[Anomaly]

Ken, I would have to say no. The teamsters action is a mirror image of the TWU. But the teamsters are worse than the TWU when it comes to full representation.
I do understand what you are saying that both the teamsters and TWU caved to concessions, or agreed to, however you wanna put it.
I too say kudos to the bakers union. Someone had to finally stand up to the company and say this has got to stop somewhere. As like the AMFA members of NWA, the men and women of the bakers union are true union members that said enough is enough...

You repeatedly paint the NWA strike as a bold and brilliant move by amfa, but all it did was to eliminate jobs and replace them with lower wage non union mechanics. It also proved proof to the rest of the industry that this union busting move was not only possible, it could be done successfully. NWA, suffered very few set backs and continued to fly despite the unorganized and under prepared actions of the association.

Foolish pride does not make your house payment or rent, it does not put food on the table, and it does not save jobs. The Teamsters were acting responsibly at Hostess to save jobs and allow those employees who saw no future the ability to leave on their own terms.

NWA mechanics were certainly in the same boat. Many felt they were doomed anyway and several came out on a better side after time had it's say. But at what cost? Shouldn't each of them have been given the opportunity to leave or stay based on their individual needs and wants? Should an association be allowed to force your future? There was no vote by the membership after all.

In my opinion I would expect my union to do all it could to save my job and allow me the personal decision of whether or not to stick it out. Let me decide what is best for myself and my family, not union leaders pride. Delle Femmine made the battles at NWA a personal matter and took all the amfa mechanics with him.

Strikes are a very serious and at times monumental decisions. They should be used to promote and advance an employees position, not to scorch and battle the company in to liquidation. Like amfa at NWA, the Bakery union leaders at Hostess chose to ignore the very clear warnings of the company. The employees, not the top company or union leaders will pay for this decision.

 

[amtcraig1]

WNMECH,

You asked, Alaska. AMFA has been around what 60 Yrs.(approx). How have they improved our standing with regards to Gov. legislation?
And I'm talking about laws or status within the laws that would remove any Question about our Profession. After all we are highly skilled and responsible individuals, with public trust. Shouldn't this be reflected in the laws? Now I assume you work for southwest? I don't think have ever been in a environment like other airlines. When it comes to Labor. Everything is a fight, and here at ASA we don't seem to win many of them.

 

[WNMECH]

Come on guy....

There are only two choices and based on one of his posts, my guess is he does not work for Southwest (although the second part of the sentence seems to point out a common problem)

"an hourly wage thats is market based to keep me in the middle with Comparator Carriers... O and a Contract we can't seem to enforce."

I will let him speak for himself thank you.

 

[WNMECH]

WNMECH,

You asked, Alaska. AMFA has been around what 60 Yrs.(approx). How have they improved our standing with regards to Gov. legislation?
And I'm talking about laws or status within the laws that would remove any Question about our Profession. After all we are highly skilled and responsible individuals, with public trust. Shouldn't this be reflected in the laws? Now I assume you work for southwest? I don't think have ever been in a environment like other airlines. When it comes to Labor. Everything is a fight, and here at ASA we don't seem to win many of them.

I appreciate your opinions on improving govt regulations, but you made statements that AMFA can't work.
You said you tried to work from the inside to fix things but failed.

Please explain why AMFA doesn't work.
How did you fail and what could have an industrial union done to stop your failures?

 

[Frank Szabo]

I appreciate your opinions on improving govt regulations, but you made statements that AMFA can't work.
You said you tried to work from the inside to fix things but failed.

Please explain why AMFA doesn't work.
How did you fail and what could have an industrial union done to stop your failures?

One simple question:

If AMFA is as worthless an organization as claimed, why are both the twu and reamsters expending so much effort and money to keep them out of AA? Something that bad would inevitably be voted out in a year so why worry? Most certainly the mechanics of AA are smart enough to keep such rabble outside the gates - right?

 

[Flying low]

One simple question:

If AMFA is as worthless an organization as claimed, why are both the twu and reamsters expending so much effort and money to keep them out of AA? Something that bad would inevitably be voted out in a year so why worry? Most certainly the mechanics of AA are smart enough to keep such rabble outside the gates - right?

Dues, Dues and more Dues.

 

[Frank Szabo]

Dues, Dues and more Dues.

Aw, hell - I know that. Just looking for a believer to make an excuse for their BS.

I retired last week and am looking for entertainment - stirring the pot is always amusing.

 

[swamt]

You repeatedly paint the NWA strike as a bold and brilliant move by amfa, but all it did was to eliminate jobs and replace them with lower wage non union mechanics. It also proved proof to the rest of the industry that this union busting move was not only possible, it could be done successfully. NWA, suffered very few set backs and continued to fly despite the unorganized and under prepared actions of the association.

Foolish pride does not make your house payment or rent, it does not put food on the table, and it does not save jobs. The Teamsters were acting responsibly at Hostess to save jobs and allow those employees who saw no future the ability to leave on their own terms.

NWA mechanics were certainly in the same boat. Many felt they were doomed anyway and several came out on a better side after time had it's say. But at what cost? Shouldn't each of them have been given the opportunity to leave or stay based on their individual needs and wants? Should an association be allowed to force your future? There was no vote by the membership after all.

In my opinion I would expect my union to do all it could to save my job and allow me the personal decision of whether or not to stick it out. Let me decide what is best for myself and my family, not union leaders pride. Delle Femmine made the battles at NWA a personal matter and took all the amfa mechanics with him.

Strikes are a very serious and at times monumental decisions. They should be used to promote and advance an employees position, not to scorch and battle the company in to liquidation. Like amfa at NWA, the Bakery union leaders at Hostess chose to ignore the very clear warnings of the company. The employees, not the top company or union leaders will pay for this decision.

If you have been following my post from the beginning you would know that I already blamed AMFA for not striking sooner. They did in fact, wait too long which allowed NWA to get better prepaired and train scabs to cross the picket lines. AMFA has admitted this mistake long ago. However, I also blame the IAM, teamsters as well as all other union's that volentarily crossed the picket lines and help NWA put other employees out of jobs. It was the mechanics at NWA that did say to the company, if you want more than 50% of our members, then we will strike until the end. These men and women of NWA took the bullet for the industry. Now that's looking out for your craft not just yourself.

 

[swamt]

One simple question:

If AMFA is as worthless an organization as claimed, why are both the twu and reamsters expending so much effort and money to keep them out of AA? Something that bad would inevitably be voted out in a year so why worry? Most certainly the mechanics of AA are smart enough to keep such rabble outside the gates - right?

The TWU and teamsters want nothing but AMFA to do away. Yes the TWU and teamsters are very scared of AMFA getting in at AA. There will be a huge trickle effect once AMFA get's in at AA and sees how much better informed and run a union can be done. But don't you worry there will be some insiders who need AMFA to fail after they are voted in. Some insiders will sabotage trying to get AMFA removed. It happend here at SWA, but they finally got the picture that everyone was extremely happy with AMFA. They are scared of another SWA AMFA repeat at all the other airlines. The teamsters will spend millions upon millions to not allow AMFA to move onto (another union's) property. Hence, why is the TWU not screaming about the teamsters starting a card drive?? Those two are working together to try and keep AMFA out. It will be hard to keep AMFA out this time as they have seen first hand how the TWU and teamsters are always agreeing to concessions. As for the TWU they have been doing it for decades.

 

[swamt]

Aw, hell - I know that. Just looking for a believer to make an excuse for their BS.

I retired last week and am looking for entertainment - stirring the pot is always amusing.

Congrats!! Enjoy your retirement Frank. Keep stiring the pot brother, it is amusing...

 

[High Speed Steel]

You people make me laugh. You seem to believe the Teamsters or AMFA are our saving grace but changing representation would only enhance a hard line position of the recognition of rights and compliance article of the CBA. Staying with the TWU you have a history of a relationship with the company established through past practice, supported by programs that were designed for greater productivity. Disturbing this with new representation would cause the company to take a firm position on their rights and compliance article and force without mitigation, new working conditions. I think only a fool would take such a risk...just my spiel

 

[DNTULSA]

lowspeed,

You are not paying attention. No one (except you and maybe anomoly) has said that the teamsters would be our saving grace. You would like it because the teamsters would probably let you keep your little no working union job.

AMFA wouldn't let you keep the do nothing union job. You might even get a foreman who would make you work.

The horror!!

You people make me laugh. You seem to believe the Teamsters or AMFA are our saving grace but changing representation would only enhance a hard line position of the recognition of rights and compliance article of the CBA. Staying with the TWU you have a history of a relationship with the company established through past practice, supported by programs that were designed for greater productivity. Disturbing this with new representation would cause the company to take a firm position on their rights and compliance article and force without mitigation, new working conditions. I think only a fool would take such a risk...just my spiel