Teamsters "raiding" TWU?

[AC Tynker]

lowspeed,

You are not paying attention. No one (except you and maybe anomoly) has said that the teamsters would be our saving grace. You would like it because the teamsters would probably let you keep your little no working union job.

AMFA wouldn't let you keep the do nothing union job. You might even get a foreman who would make you work.

The horror!!

You people make me laugh. You seem to believe the Teamsters or AMFA are our saving grace but changing representation would only enhance a hard line position of the recognition of rights and compliance article of the CBA. Staying with the TWU you have a history of a relationship with the company established through past practice, supported by programs that were designed for greater productivity. Disturbing this with new representation would cause the company to take a firm position on their rights and compliance article and force without mitigation, new working conditions. I think only a fool would take such a risk...just my spiel

It's looking like you may be the one with the attention problem DNTULSA. Anomaly is Pro IBT you do have that part right but HSS is Pro TWU.

 

[amtcraig1]

I have been very specific on this forum as to how we love the autonomy provided us from AMFA here at SWA.
We control our own negotiations, our local, our money and we vote on everything.
If someone here "fails" us, we can recall them if we want.
No one at AMFA national tells us what to do.
We are AMFA and we make all of our own decisions.

Now you claim that "you failed" and that "AMFA can't work".
Please be specific on your failures and the failures to want to claim are due to AMFA.
The vagueness of your claims makes it impossible to validate them.

It all seems to me that some people need to have other people take care of all their decisions for them.
Even if those other people don't work in the same jobs or even the same industry as them.
They would trust their careers to truckers and plumbers and to people who don't know a thing about aircraft maintenance.

We here at SWA can make our own decisions and if we make bad decisions or fail at something, we will not be putting the blame on AMFA as a whole.

Let me know how you failed and how you think AMFA failed. It would help the discussion.

Craig, i don't know what company you work for or anything about your claims that AMFA can't work. Give me a little background if you can.

WNMECH,
I assume because you say “we” love the independence/self-governing provide “us” you are speaking for all the mechanics and related at Southwest Airlines. I'm not sure that is true. I have some friends that work for SWA and they would vote to do away with AMFA if it came about. As for the rest of that paragraph for the most part I agree you/The local members do have control. Just a side note, since you have control of your own negotiations. Are all the members are of your negotiating committee SWA employees? Who is the chairman of your negotiating committee?

As for claiming that I said I failed? Where did I say that? I believe I said AMFA just can't do it. And just like you I believe “we are AMFA” and we make our own decisions. So we share in the blame. Let me help you here. Maybe you should ask me what can't AMFA do.

I'm not sure what you're saying, some people need to have other people take care of all their decisions for them. Then you go into trust their careers to truckers and plumbers and people who don't know a thing about aircraft maintenance. Now I have made it a point not to promote any union on here. But since you directed this at me. Yes I believe the industrial unions are better equipped to negotiate a contract and also in contract enforcement. They have the staff and expertise to fight these giant corporations. They have the best aviation labor attorneys in the US. They have professional negotiators, economists and financial analysts. And above all they haven't turned the labor community against them. So keep fighting the fight in the hangar because if you take it to the street you are not going to fair very well. For you AA mechanics if you go with AMFA. When you are in that hangar you will always be an AA employee. Even if you are doing union business. So you had better be on your best behavior your job depends on it.

 

[TWU informer]

It's looking like you may be the one with the attention problem DNTULSA. Anomaly is Pro IBT you do have that part right but HSS is Pro TWU.

Are you and HSS not the same person?

 

[TWU informer]

You people make me laugh. You seem to believe the Teamsters or AMFA are our saving grace but changing representation would only enhance a hard line position of the recognition of rights and compliance article of the CBA. Staying with the TWU you have a history of a relationship with the company established through past practice, supported by programs that were designed for greater productivity. Disturbing this with new representation would cause the company to take a firm position on their rights and compliance article and force without mitigation, new working conditions. I think only a fool would take such a risk...just my spiel

The history of relationship you speak of equals nothing more than a list of concessions for jobs so long they would fill this page. You know and lived each of them so I will not list again.

And productivity enhancements and concessions for jobs is in itself an oxy-moron. Not anything close reality but don't let the facts get in your way or your dreams.

But you keep on drinking from the kool-aid fountain, and we will keep on telling the truth.

There is far less productivity and accountability today than 20 years ago and you know it. Hell, even the elected union officer used to show up and do some work along side the members. Now once elected, they dissapear for three years, and appoint stooges like yourself to do their job functions. Productivity enhancment my ass.

 

[1AA]

It's looking like you may be the one with the attention problem DNTULSA. Anomaly is Pro IBT you do have that part right but HSS is Pro TWU.

Both PRO LOSERS, How sad that they do not promote the craft, just the dues machine sucking industrial unions.

 

[DNTULSA]

Tynker, you misunderstand me.

There is no difference between the twu and the teamsters, except;

1. you got a different bunch of thieves getting you dues money.
2. teamsters have higher dues than the twu.
3.you will receive even less representation than you have now.

However, if the teamsters are voted in, you will have the same bunch of bubba's at the local level union jobs telling you "they can do that brother" and "you are lucky to have a job".

Did I miss anything?

It's looking like you may be the one with the attention problem DNTULSA. Anomaly is Pro IBT you do have that part right but HSS is Pro TWU.

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

You people make me laugh. You seem to believe the Teamsters or AMFA are our saving grace but changing representation would only enhance a hard line position of the recognition of rights and compliance article of the CBA. Staying with the TWU you have a history of a relationship with the company established through past practice, supported by programs that were designed for greater productivity. Disturbing this with new representation would cause the company to take a firm position on their rights and compliance article and force without mitigation, new working conditions. I think only a fool would take such a risk...just my spiel

Don,

Does that yellow streak down the twu's collective back strech all the way around? The "relationship" you talk about is one of being the company's lap dog. The "greater productivity" you talk about lead to OSM/SRPs. The "programs" you talk about are ones to further fatten atd APPOINTED officials already fat wallets.

New CRAFT union representation will give control of the union back to the membership where controll should always be.

New CRAFT union representation will cause the twu to focus all their afl-cio political clout and their strength in numbers for the remaining twu membership which doesn't belong with AMTs like casino dealers, truck drivers, bus drivers, etc.

New CRAFT union representation will cause people like gless and yourself to have to come back to the floor because NO ONE in their right mind will elect you into office.

GO AMFA!

 

[High Speed Steel]

The history of relationship you speak of equals nothing more than a list of concessions for jobs so long they would fill this page. You know and lived each of them so I will not list again.

And productivity enhancements and concessions for jobs is in itself an oxy-moron. Not anything close reality but don't let the facts get in your way or your dreams.

But you keep on drinking from the kool-aid fountain, and we will keep on telling the truth.

There is far less productivity and accountability today than 20 years ago and you know it. Hell, even the elected union officer used to show up and do some work along side the members. Now once elected, they dissapear for three years, and appoint stooges like yourself to do their job functions. Productivity enhancment my ass.

Informer, Management has always had the ability to manage their business as they see fit. Reflecting upon my career at AA I remember when I first hired in and I was supervised by management who came from the environment from which I was employed. They had full knowledge of what I was doing and how long it should take me to do it. I was held to specific break and lunch periods and had limited ability to goof off. Now for the past ten years that former environment has changed and many within the workforce don't know it any other way including those who oversee our daily business. Many things have happened over the past ten years and the company has always had the right to right the ship. Did they do it? No. We, they, are accustomed to what we enjoy today.

Now I hope you understand my synopsis of what I've seen happen and you would better understand why I say the Teamsters or the AMFA would not be any help here. The TWU has knowledge of the programs the company wanted us to get involved in to help them right the ship and I believe they will use them when applicable. With your posts and many others you blame the TWU for what is on the stove simmering, but they are not to blame here for anything that has happened in the past or in the future. Your quest for a change in representation would only empower the company in the end because those other organizations have not been here to live through it as you and I have. Just my spiel...

 

[Anomaly]

Informer, Management has always had the ability to manage their business as they see fit. Reflecting upon my career at AA I remember when I first hired in and I was supervised by management who came from the environment from which I was employed. They had full knowledge of what I was doing and how long it should take me to do it. I was held to specific break and lunch periods and had limited ability to goof off. Now for the past ten years that former environment has changed and many within the workforce don't know it any other way including those who oversee our daily business. Many things have happened over the past ten years and the company has always had the right to right the ship. Did they do it? No. We, they, are accustomed to what we enjoy today.

Now I hope you understand my synopsis of what I've seen happen and you would better understand why I say the Teamsters or the AMFA would not be any help here. The TWU has knowledge of the programs the company wanted us to get involved in to help them right the ship and I believe they will use them when applicable. With your posts and many others you blame the TWU for what is on the stove simmering, but they are not to blame here for anything that has happened in the past or in the future. Your quest for a change in representation would only empower the company in the end because those other organizations have not been here to live through it as you and I have. Just my spiel...

There is a lot of truth in your words, unfortunately they may be wasted on some who are blinded by misguided anger.

Very well put.

 

[Bob Owens]

Informer, Management has always had the ability to manage their business as they see fit. Reflecting upon my career at AA I remember when I first hired in and I was supervised by management who came from the environment from which I was employed. They had full knowledge of what I was doing and how long it should take me to do it. I was held to specific break and lunch periods and had limited ability to goof off. Now for the past ten years that former environment has changed and many within the workforce don't know it any other way including those who oversee our daily business. Many things have happened over the past ten years and the company has always had the right to right the ship. Did they do it? No. We, they, are accustomed to what we enjoy today.

Now I hope you understand my synopsis of what I've seen happen and you would better understand why I say the Teamsters or the AMFA would not be any help here. The TWU has knowledge of the programs the company wanted us to get involved in to help them right the ship and I believe they will use them when applicable. With your posts and many others you blame the TWU for what is on the stove simmering, but they are not to blame here for anything that has happened in the past or in the future. Your quest for a change in representation would only empower the company in the end because those other organizations have not been here to live through it as you and I have. Just my spiel...

So paying us bottom of the industry wages is going to motivate people to 'right the ship"? To me its more like 'programs" that "committees" form, committees made up of appointed "union" people (marginal mechanics) who buy into it because it means more "goof off" time while they discuss how to cut everyone elses "goof off " time.

Most of us didnt enter this industry to "goof off". You may "enjoy " it but most of us would rather that our time was put to good use in exchange for good compensation.

The majority of people are more than willing to work a fair day, the company needs to make the first move by providing fair pay for what they expect. All your committees and programs arent going to help AA when the guys who do the work see their peers treated much better than AA is treating them.

Just my speil.

 

[Anomaly]

So paying us bottom of the industry wages is going to motivate people to 'right the ship"? To me its more like 'programs" that "committees" form, committees made up of appointed "union" people (marginal mechanics) who buy into it because it means more "goof off" time while they discuss how to cut everyone elses "goof off " time.

Most of us didnt enter this industry to "goof off". You may "enjoy " it but most of us would rather that our time was put to good use in exchange for good compensation.

The majority of people are more than willing to work a fair day, the company needs to make the first move by providing fair pay for what they expect. All your committees and programs arent going to help AA when the guys who do the work see their peers treated much better than AA is treating them.

Just my speil.

Before you were at the bottom, UAL mechanics held that lowest position. It should still be warm from our many many years of sacrifices from the likes of Steven Wolf, an ESOP, Goodwin and the Tilton rape and Bankruptcy.

Since then, our ship is beginning to sail upright. There is hope.

Again, my best to you all

 

[Bob Owens]

Before you were at the bottom, UAL mechanics held that lowest position. It should still be warm from our many many years of sacrifices from the likes of Steven Wolf, an ESOP, Goodwin and the Tilton rape and Bankruptcy.

Since then, our ship is beginning to sail upright. There is hope.

Again, my best to you all

Really? We may have made a few pennies more on the wage for a couple of years (not sure on that) but compensation is more than just the wage.
Right after I took office I took part in the Road Show. there Don Videtich was saying that CAL may make a little more than we did but our medical was much better. I got a hold of the CAL contract and showed him when you factor in all the other stuff their contract was worth around $10 k a year per mechanic more than ours was, he dropped that claim.

You guys got equity, you still have a weeks more vacation than we do at every stage of your tenure. Thats adds around 50cents/hr cents to your compensation, you also still get more holidays and get them at doubletime, add at least another dollar for that. You still get Doubletime after 12 hours and more sick and IOD time than us. There's more but I think I've made my point, we went into this at the bottom and set a new low. . You have a better medical plan than we do, if we use $10k worth of medical we will lay out between $7500 to $9000 when you factor in what we pay for the plan and all the deductibles and copays. Thats another $4/hr cut in pay we took since 2001, I dont think you guys were hit as severely. You still have some retiree medical coverage paid by the company as well. You guys held out in BK and the company moved at the last minute, lessening the cuts, we never got there. In late 2002 your guys took a 14% paycut, negotiated it down to 13%, then within a week we gave 17% plus other concessions bringing it to at least 25%. UALs creditors rejected your TA, can you blame them? Why would they agree to take less in BK than we gave up outside of BK? After that we gave away so much prior to BK the hammer came down over there, you're Welcome, I guess. You seem to take pride and envy concessions. So, will you be applying to AA? Or are you in fact another one of these guys who post anonymously because you are trying to sell yourself as rank and file when in fact you have a deal where you dont have to live under the terms you promote either?

Back in 1986 I turned down UAL, took the advice of an old timer who said we all settle around the same eventually and the most important thing you want in this industry is seniority. He was wrong, seniority isnt as important as good pay, but then again he never could have seen what was going to happen to us under the leadership of people like you.

 

[WNMECH]

As for claiming that I said I failed? Where did I say that? I believe I said AMFA just can't do it. And just like you I believe “we are AMFA” and we make our own decisions. So we share in the blame. Let me help you here. Maybe you should ask me what can't AMFA do.

To improve my plight I became a shop rep. Working within AMFA to try to improve things, I now believe AMFA just can't do it. If you took it as complaining, sorry I wasn't, I believe I said "We" so I'm right there to blame with AMFA. Now see if there system works contact Local 14 let them know I am here so I can be voted out. I will let you know how that worked out for me.

Hey... I'm with ya here.. "I" failed because I thought that AMFA could work.. I can tell you the only thing I have with AMFA is "WE" have no problem throwing other members under the BUS!!!!

You claim AMFA can't work.
It seems to be working just fine here at SWA.

You said you became a rep to improve things, and you say you take blame with AMFA for something. (failing to improve something ?)
Then you agree you failed but are vague at what you are talking about.

Can you explain specifically what the problems are that you have with AMFA, and please contrast that to what any of the industrial unions could do to fix those problems.

While you have said things about paying for medical and something vague about not enforcing your contract, help me understand your difficulties and why you think another union without membership control would work be able to get different results.

 

[Anomaly]

Really? We may have made a few pennies more on the wage for a couple of years (not sure on that) but compensation is more than just the wage.

Right after I took office .....

Back in 1986 I turned down UAL, took the advice of an old timer who said we all settle around the same eventually and the most important thing you want in this industry is seniority. He was wrong, seniority isnt as important as good pay, but then again he never could have seen what was going to happen to us under the leadership of people like you.

You are the only "leader" I know of on this board.

 

[Bob Owens]

You are the only "leader" I know of on this board.

Thanks

At least you didnt say that I'm not smart enough to write what I write like Tim Gillespie did!