SWA now getting involved with slot (s) possibilities

[700UW]

3.7% market share by DL and NK at DFW, and AE is #2, not DL.

How many times do we have to tell you the same info over and over?

 

[737823]

3.7% market share by DL and NK at DFW, and AE is #2, not DL.

How many times do we have to tell you the same info over and over?

Sure, for the purposes of DOT reporting, yes American Eagle is a unique operating carrier (and also a marketing umbrella for other RJ operators) but is still affiliated with American Airlines (AA). Delta Air Lines (and Delta Conmection) is the number two carrier in that market.

Josh

 

[700UW]

Actually DL is tied with Spirit, both have a 3.7 Market share, I have posted the stats from DFW several times.

 

[700UW]

Well check this out now, DL for the last market share at DFW.
 
http://www.transtats.bts.gov/airports.asp?pn=1
 
Delta is now behind American, American Eagle, Spirit and US Airways, Delta is last with 1,261 passengers, and a 2.45% market share.

 

[eolesen]

DOT stats are what they are. DL has a higher average fare in the DFW local market than every other airline except for UA.. .and that includes AA's int'l markets.

Yes, the DOT stats on O&D and fares are what they are -- based on a 10% sample, and therefore only 10% accurate.

If you want real accuracy, you'd use MIDT data, but I know for a fact you can't afford it.

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

Well check this out now, DL for the last market share at DFW.
 
http://www.transtats.bts.gov/airports.asp?pn=1
 
Delta is now behind American, American Eagle, Spirit and US Airways, Delta is last with 1,261 passengers, and a 2.45% market share.

While you're correct, after the top 5, there remains about 8% to be divided among "others", including the DL connection carriers which bumps up the total % for DL at DFW.
Regardless whether DL is #2, or #3 or #5, you need to carefully pick the number that fits the DL Domination Theory .....
Resistance is futile, all will be assimilateDL.

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

Yes, the DOT stats on O&D and fares are what they are -- based on a 10% sample, and therefore only 10% accurate.

If you want real accuracy, you'd use MIDT data, but I know for a fact you can't afford it.

Can you post a sample of the MIDT data?
 
I, like probably a whole bunch of others on here, have nothing against DL, they're a fine company.  But the DL dominates everything narrative is a bit too much.

 

[swamt]

 
NOPE>

I never said DL was the 2nd largest in the metroplex.... I said DL was the 2nd largest at DFW.

The AA and WN fanclubs want desperately to be able to each monopolize one airport each in N. Texas.

Not going to happen.



you mean you are praying like all get out that someone else will step in a bid so DL will be pushed out....

keep dreaming, though.

You have competition for the gates you thought all along were yours... isn't it a pain when you don't get your way.

WT, As I have stated before, I could care less if Delta continues or grows their current flights at DAL.  As both WNMECH and I have also told you, we could care less who bids or who wins the 2 slots at DAL.  You constantly try to put words in other peoples mouths.  I also never said SWA will get those gates.  Matter fact I have said that the W/A agreement won't allow SWA to get those gates, BUT, I repeat, BUT, you never know what will be negotiated before it is all said and done.  Trust me WT, we are not scared of Delta at DAL what-so-ever.  Now grow up and stop the he said she said game, it will not work with us... 

 

[swamt]

 
Maybe if WN wanted to codeshare with Westjet like they were supposed to, then it would make more sense for Westjet to bid.

SWA wanted very much so to code share with WJ.  WJ shot themselves in the foot and demanded too much crap way out of line and which allowed SWA to walk away per the agreement previously set in motion.  WJ screwed themselves, they, just as Frontier is now wishing they would come to terms with SWA. Just ask any Frontier or WJ pilot...

 

[swamt]

actually it was others who repeatedly tried to call DAL and DFW one market. I argued that they are more different than any two airports in the same metro area precisely because of the WA which creates boxes in which both carriers must stay although in reality it is WN that got put in a box.

DL has beat AA and WN at their own game in N. Texas as much as it hurts and whether you ever admit it or not.

And yet it was Delta that almost completely retreated out of DFW, Hmmm...

 

[WorldTraveler]

... you and others can't grasp the concept that DL closed DFW AS A HUB. Its relative position in the market was unchanged. DL was #2 in the DFW local market or #3 in the N. Texas if you count DAL and DFW as one market.

DL doesn't connect passengers in N. Texas anymore as AA and WN do and as both will have to do to compete with each other.

DL does compete very effectively for the local N. Texas market at DFW and will do the very same thing at DAL.

DL will clearly not be the size of AA and WN and serve dozens of markets but that doesn't matter to someone who wants to buy a ticket to ATL, DTW, MSP, or SLC where DL carries the majority of the local market or LGA where it is a solid #2 and that is also why DL is expanding its reach to LAX.

DL's position in the local N. Texas market is stronger than it has been for years and DL is doing it without a hub by picking out the strongest markets and competing in them while AA and WN beat each other silly.

 

[737823]

Yes, the DOT stats on O&D and fares are what they are -- based on a 10% sample, and therefore only 10% accurate.If you want real accuracy, you'd use MIDT data

While having the population is obviously better if certain statistical properties and tests are met a sufficiently large sample can be representative of the population. While not perfect the DB1B tables can provide good insight.

Josh

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

DL's position in the local N. Texas market is stronger than it has been for years and DL is doing it without a hub by picking out the strongest markets and competing in them while AA and WN beat each other silly.

WT:  I'm sorry, but I cannot buy this.  Just on the surface it seems ridiculous.  I mean, DL had a hub at DFW, closed it down, and now is stronger than ever in the N. Texas?  Come on man, this is almost as bad as you stating on the DL forum that despite stopping SFO-NRT DL will gain even more % of the international market because of their stronger connection possibilities in SEA/LAX to Asia.  It just defies logic.  Now if you're just claiming that DL is "stronger than it has been for years" from DFW to their hubs, then OK, that may be a lot more believable.  Perhaps DL has higher fares than previously from DFW to their hubs, or carries even more people between DFW and their hubs compared to 10 years ago, then claiming DL is now stronger is believable.  But just making a blanket statement(s) like that doesn't pass the smell test.

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

SWA wanted very much so to code share with WJ.  WJ shot themselves in the foot and demanded too much crap way out of line and which allowed SWA to walk away per the agreement previously set in motion.  WJ screwed themselves, they, just as Frontier is now wishing they would come to terms with SWA. Just ask any Frontier or WJ pilot...

That's an interesting perspective.  I've heard that when the Southwest-Westjet codeshare was being conceived, the major problem at the time was the WN computer system not being capable to handle codesharing.  This was going to be fixed by WN upgrading their system.  However, WN decided to instead pursue Airtran and more-or-less said FU to Westjet we're too busy with Airtran to pay attention to you.
 
I've always had the opinion that Westjet - Southwest codeshare could work very nicely.  I believe there are enough Canadians that are very loyal to Westjet (not just vacation destinations) and these customers would love the opportunity of connecting to WN (most likely via DEN, ORD, BWI) to other destinations in the USA if given the option.  Right now AC-UA have a pretty good lock on the trans-border market.

 

[WorldTraveler]

The DOT metrics are valid because statistics are continually improved to make sure you really do have a representative sample. As much as some might want to argue that the DOT data is "only 10%" it is the RIGHT 10%.

More significantly, DOT data does roll up very well to airline reported data to the SEC. If there were errors in DOT data, then it would be apparent in the regional data that is provided by airlines to the DOT but that doesn't occur.



WestJet is just one more carrier that has dual codeshare relationships with AA and DL. The chances of them working with WN at this point are somewhere between slim and none.


Did you miss that DL is getting a higher average fare than AA in N. Texas and 2nd only to UA which operates longer flights?

I have repeatedly said and it should be obvious that DL was carrying around a lot of dead wood (flights that made no contribution to the local market) with the DFW hub.

DL dropped about 5 points of local market share along with 200 flights with the hub closure.

Now, DL is getting share as high as AA or higher in DL's core hub markets even though AA was dominant in most of those markets except for ATL even when DL had the hub and in the years after.

DL operates far fewer flights but gets far higher quality revenue and more significantly revenue that is as good as or better than the best airlines in the market.

There is a huge fixation that the number of flights equates to power but that is absolutely not proven in reality.

DL is and likely will be a smaller carrier than AA and WN but DL is getting high quality revenue where it does compete from N. Texas and those profits are what fuels its ability to go after new routes like LAX.

As much as you and some of the WN crowd want to keep harping on DL's DFW hub closure, that was almost a decade ago. DL has restructured itself and is getting revenue premiums relative to its peers, including in N. Texas.

The same thing applies to the west coast-Japan, the primary segment DL has competed in. As DL adds service from the west coast to non-Japan Asia, DL is doing it with a significant mainline CASM advantage. If you don't think a 5 or 10% cost difference matters, for how long are you going to keep buying gas at a station for $3 when a station right next door sells its for even $2.85 on a consistent basis... and that's just 5%. With 10% (the difference in CASM between DL and UA), the cost difference becomes $2.70 compared to $3. There is no company that can survive on an extended basis with that kind of cost disadvantage in a business where the difference in quality and service is minimal.

As hard as it is for you and others to accept, DL is generating premium revenues AND has costs below AA and UA. That is a powerful combination that no legacy carrier has had to the degree DL has now.