SWA now getting involved with slot (s) possibilities

[Kev3188]

Nowhere does being #2 mean being "right behind" #1. All of the big hub cities with one major hub carrier have a big difference between the #1 and #2 carrier... that is the nature of large hubs.

No one's saying you did. I'm saying that it's what people tend to think when they hear something like "DL closed their hub, but still maintained 2nd place in the local DFW market." I kept asking because I'm interested in what wasn't being said.
 

I took for granted that anyone in the airline industry would realize that AA's share at DFW: DL's at ATL, DTW, and MSP; US at CLT and PHL; and UA at IAH, SFO, and EWR is all in the 50+% plus range.... making an 8% or even 15% share considerably smaller.

...Which you should. I think (hope?) everyone "gets" that the hub carrier rules any given airfield. I just wanted to know how specifically far down the market share scale #2 was, and how that correlated to spots 3/4/5/etc.
 

Also, I never said that DL was #2 in the combined DAL/DFW market and in this case for good reason.

...Which is why I kept using your specific delineation of DFW...

 

If you want to compare market share in the cities that WN can serve from DAL to the same cities which any carrier can serve from DFW, then WN has by far the dominant share of the market place.

Can't speak for anyone else, but I don't. I was simply interested in what "2nd place at DFW" meant, and stats behind the statement. Don't over think it.

 

[WorldTraveler]

DL's position in the local market is still strong and hopefully my data shows that DFW is a premium market for them and DL does in fact compare very favorably in the market despite being fairly small.


What should also be apparent is that DL was operating about 200 flights per day that were contributing very little to DL's share in the local market... DL largely operated a transfer point in Texas to connect a lot of cities with very little local market share on many of those flights.

DL still has a strategic hole in the South/Southwest because Texas is a huge part of the US economy and because there are strategic flows from the southeast to the west for which a connection over ATL is out of the way. AA, UA, and WN also have Texas hubs which leaves DL at a disadvantage to them.

The DAL gate issue and DL's intentions to add Texas-LAX flights are part of DL's plan to serve the local market without having a hub there. Low fare carrier presence makes it much easier for competing network carriers to establish themselves in hubs that have been dominated by other network carriers.



I'm sorry if this was more difficult than it should have been, Kev.

If there is more info that can help you see the picture, I will do my best to make it available to you. I'm not overthinking anything and when there are multiple people participating in a conversation, what you say gets stomped by someone else's comments.
I would rather err on the side of giving you more information than too little... and I am glad you asked.
All of us should be willing to ask and share what we know.....

all the best,

 

[swamt]

And here is why SWA got involved in the slot possibilities, happy reading and very good news indeed:--
 

Getty Images


Here's a quick hit of what Road Warrior editors are reading.
Southwest confirmed Thursday that it will buy 22 of the 34 takeoff and landing slots at LaGuardia Airport in New York that American Airlines was required to sell as part of its pending hookup with US Airways, Reuters reported.
The Federal Aviation Administration said Virgin America has permission to buy the remaining 12 spaces at LaGuardia. US Airways and American are required to shed more than 100 slots at other airports, mainly Ronald Reagan Washington National, as part of the terms of the deal, which is expected to close Monday.

 

[swamt]

Hope we get the 2 extra gates they want at DAL. Read this and thought why shouldn't we get them? BTW, does anyone know or heard of when we might here the results of the Wash. slots as well as the other several 2 gates at all the other airports? The anticipation is killing me, I hope we get the majority of the gates getting divested, as we did in NY, plus the 2 gates at Love Field:-
------------------------------------------------------------



Southwest Airlines wants American Airlines’ two gates at Love Field




WASHINGTON — To keep its merger with US Airways alive, American Airlines has to give up its lonely gates at Dallas Love Field, gates that it leases from the city of Dallas but doesn’t currently use.

Southwest, already the dominant carrier operating out of Love Field, has an idea of which airline would be the best one to take over those two gates — itself.

“What I am saying is that Southwest will be able to do more with those two gates than another airline (new to the airport) would be able to,” said Ron Ricks, executive vice president and chief legal officer.

He said airlines typically run about six flights a day out of a single gate, though that varies from airport to airport, he said. That means that whichever carrier gets access to the gates will be able to add about 12 — maybe 14 or 16 — new daily flights, he said.

Southwest, he said, would be able to beat the average and operate 16 or more flights, since it already has so many flights coming in and out of the airport.

that means that if the government wants to introduce meaningful competition to the new American, which will be the largest airline in the world after the merger, the choice for the new gates ought to be Southwest.

“The biggest competitive impact would be seen if Southwest is allowed to operate out of those gates,” he said. “Another airline (new to Love Field) would come in and add a few flights — that would be, economically, just a drop in the bucket.”

Of course, other airlines have made other arguments. Delta, which currently subleases the two gates from Southwest, has said it would like to take over the lease on a permanent basis.

The requirement that the new airline give up two gates at a handful of the nation’s top airports is designed to introduce more competition for the new American, which will be the largest airline in the world.

Ricks argued that An airline that puts new service in at Dallas Love at just one or two new gates would have a hard time creating significant economic pressure on American, something that a stronger Southwest would be able to do.

That’s largely the argument US Airways and American used in pushing the DOJ to approve the merger, that only by creating a stronger, more profitable new American could there be real pressure to bear on industry leaders Delta and United.

Still, it’s far from clear whether given Southwest an even more dominant position at Dallas Love Field would drive prices down on flights by American, something that antitrust experts say is needed now that so many of the major airlines have already consolidated.

And even just 12 more flights from a new carrier at Love could exert significant competitive prices on a handful of particular routes, especially if they were on routes that are currently only or mostly served by American or Southwest.

How the Justice Department will look at the issue isn’t yet clear. But Ricks said there’s another argument — a “more parochial” one that isn’t likely to mean much to the DOJ. Southwest is one of the top employers and top taxpayers in the city of Dallas, which owns the airport. A stronger Southwest will mean more in the long run than adding another carrier to the airport.

“A stronger Southwest will mean a lot more to the city of Dallas, in terms of jobs and paying taxes here, than a new airline that just comes in and adds a few flights and pays a little bit of rent,” he said.

 

[eolesen]

I've posted at length in the AA forum about this... won't repeat it here.

Why WN won't get the gates: http://www.airlineforums.com/topic/56447-southwest-airlines-wants-american-airlines-two-gates-at-love-field/#entry1043984

How I see it going down: http://www.airlineforums.com/topic/56447-southwest-airlines-wants-american-airlines-two-gates-at-love-field/page-3#entry1044728

Why DL's schedule filing is meaningless: http://www.airlineforums.com/topic/56447-southwest-airlines-wants-american-airlines-two-gates-at-love-field/page-4#entry1044854

 

[WorldTraveler]

You really have no confirmation of all of this interest from other low fare carriers, do you?

Why would a low fare carrier leave DFW to come compete at DAL with WN, a carrier with much lower costs than AA?

VX and B6 have succeeded handedly at DFW. They have no assurance the same thing would happen at DAL.

Let's face it... there's a whole lot of interest on this forum for DL not to get the gates at DAL, but none of them are based on any logical business reasons.

AA and WN don't want to compete with DL... it is obvious that DL has handedly succeeded when that has happened.

Add in the strategic advantage that DL would have over AA and WN in both carriers' home airports, and I honestly didn't ever expect support from AA or WN employees.

 

[eolesen]

Do you have any proof that you're not a child molester?....

You can't predict who will or won't want access, so stop pretending you know anything more or less than what's been made public...

 

[WorldTraveler]

there you go with your character assassination because you can't logically answer a few Market-driven questions.

The most critical of which is why would an LCC leave DFW (and most of them operate there now) where they already have lower CASMs than AA at an airport that does have an established to go to DAL to fight for a Market with a carrier that has a lower CASM and will dominate the airport.

How many of those LFCs serve WN's other large heavily dominated markets vs. other airports in the region where the legacy carriers are stronger?

 

[700UW]

 
 
 

there you go with your character assassination because you can't logically answer a few Market-driven questions.

 

[WorldTraveler]

I have assassinated no one's character because they have facts which I don't.

It also doesn't change that despite the hand-wringing on here, DL is poised to move forward with a Love Field operation with about 1900 seats/day to 5 cities.

 

[robbedagain]

Thats provided they do get the 2 gates

 

[swamt]

Thats provided they do get the 2 gates

Correct robbed.  Now SWA wants those gates at LF and will aggressively bid for them.  It will be interesting to see who else steps in for the bidding process at all the locations where divestures are coming.

 

[robbedagain]

Swamt have u heard if vx or b6 or even allegiant might come there? Allegiant I would think might want as they too target secondary airports

 

[WorldTraveler]

Correct robbed.  Now SWA wants those gates at LF and will aggressively bid for them.  It will be interesting to see who else steps in for the bidding process at all the locations where divestures are coming.

If you click your heels together at the same time you keep saying that, it might increase your chances it will happen.

"would like to" doesn't mean they will be able to or will...

WN might want to run a little monopoly at DAL but it flies in the face of the whole reason for giving WN the ability to bid on slots at DCA and LGA as a small carrier in those markets.

There are people in the US who are smart enough to know that simply transferring a monopoly at one airport for another monopoly at another airport makes any kind of sense to the American people.

 

[swamt]

Swamt have u heard if vx or b6 or even allegiant might come there? Allegiant I would think might want as they too target secondary airports

Rumors, I have heard of are JB, Virgin, Spirit, Allegiant, and Delta, we have heard some discussions about Alaska, but more than likely will not evolve to anything.