SWA now getting involved with slot (s) possibilities

[WNMECH]

I also asked you two to tell me how many of the LGA/DCA slots you expect B6 and WN to gain and I have heard nothing. I will say that the chances of B6 and WN taking all of the slots are somewhere between slim and none.

I have already told you I don't care how many slots WN gain from the AA divestiture.
If the price is too high, we may not buy any.

You seem to think we want them all.
Remember we were not willing to over pay before, why would we now?

As for gates at Love, SWA will retain all 16 of the gates they have now and will not get any more.

I don't care who flys out of the other 4 gates. It doesn't make any difference to SWA plans for Love Field.

 

[WNMECH]

Any revisions likely will reduce the size of the settlement that either B6 or WN will get which is precisely why they are opposed to any revisions.

It is more likely that WN just doesn't want more people bidding on slots so that the price stays reasonable.

 

[WorldTraveler]

I didn't say that WN expects or wants to get all of the slots... I don't think anyone expects anyone would get them all.

But WN's chief leader says they will bid aggressively to increase their size at LGA and DCA. They are fully aware - as is the DOJ - that this might be the last chance for a substantial reallocation of slots at the slot controlled airports.

If no other carriers intend to take on WN and DL, then it is very possible that the size of both carriers' operations at DAL could be proportionately larger.
I have no doubts that WN will aggressively compete with AA in N. Texas as they have never been able to do before. But I also am certain that it will not be just a two-way horserace.

And yes you are right that WN wants to keep the bidding pool small.

But the DOJ is charged with doing what is right for the country and not what necessarily results in lower slot prices for WN.

 

[WNMECH]

WN and other low cost carriers in every market, are good for the country.

Your arguments about service to small cities are not the major concern of the congress or most people in this country.

If there is a demand for flights to small cities, then someone will fly them.

 

[robbedagain]

I knw spirit pulled out of dca bec of unfavorable times for their slots which is why they came to bwi but I would think with 52 slots at dca they may retry for slots but this time they would get favorable times. West jet and may be air canada could bid.. while DL can bid for dca I do not think they would get any of the dca or lga slots I do think vx would want slots and exemption so they can do dca sfo run for example

 

[swamt]

I have no doubts that WN will aggressively compete with AA in N. Texas as they have never been able to do before. But I also am certain that it will not be just a two-way horserace.
 

WN and AA have compete head to head at DAL many times in the past.  They have always competed from the 2 separate airports just 8-10 miles apart.  AA left LF 2-3 times before, as they were losing money with the LF operations.  I do know AA returned once in order to put Legend Airlines out of bus., but stayed for some time to try competing with SWA out of LF and left due to losing too much money from their LF operations.   So your comment about they have never been able to compete in N. Tx is way off.  Why do you think the W/A was born?  And don't use the BS answer of, to protect DFW. 

 

[WNMECH]

WN and AA have compete head to head at DAL many times in the past.  They have always competed from the 2 separate airports just 8-10 miles apart.  AA left LF 2-3 times before, as they were losing money with the LF operations.  I do know AA returned once in order to put Legend Airlines out of bus., but stayed for some time to try competing with SWA out of LF and left due to losing too much money from their LF operations.   So your comment about they have never been able to compete in N. Tx is way off.  Why do you think the W/A was born?  And don't use the BS answer of, to protect DFW. 

I believe he meant compete on a more level playing field with DFW (long haul and non stop flights) that we have not been allowed to before.

We don't plan on dominating the North Texas market. We only have 16 gates, but do plan on making a good share of money on the routes we add.

 

[WorldTraveler]

absolutely right, WNMech. It is obvious that AA and WN have never been free to compete on equal footing in N. Texas and that is changing.

If you have followed what I have said, I expect WN to put enough seats into the top 20 markets from DFW in order to gain up to 50% of the market. That is what has happened in STL and MCI and WN does have the ability to do that with the resources they do have.

I fully support WN using the facilities it does have in order to create the most options for passengers in N. Texas. The more seats on the maximum number of flights WN can run thru DAL, the better the competition will be.

robbed,
again the issue with the settlement agreement is that the DOJ made a big part of the original complaint against AA/US the level of service the combined carrier would offer to medium/small cities which US almost exclusively provides from DCA.

That part of the complaint came directly from political concerns but was largely tossed out of the settlement agreement.
None of the low cost carriers are going to provide a solution to that part of the original DOJ concern and the political voices that were behind it.

DL and UA are essentially the only two carriers that can provide service to small and medium sized cities via RJs. UA has the problem of a hub at IAD which serves some of the same cities.

AA/US has the potential to serve fewer cities on fewer flights than they do now... and AA/US has already said they will drop service to some cities. The DOJ might find that acceptable but there will be a lot of members of Congress who don't.

The DOJ will either correct the agreement to require better assurances from AA/US that they will serve those small cities or else create some other mechanism that allows those cities to retain service on either AA/US or other airlines.

 

[WNMECH]

DL and UA are essentially the only two carriers that can provide service to small and medium sized cities via RJs.

And they will still be able to do it without getting anymore slots.
With connecting and one stop flights from any of the places they fly from DCA now, can't they.

Your red herring problem is solved.

You are welcome.

 

[WorldTraveler]

tell that to the politicians that want nonstop flights.
 
WN is a very political animal.  They should be able to figure it out.

 

[WNMECH]

tell that to the politicians that want nonstop flights.
 
WN is a very political animal.  They should be able to figure it out.

Less non-stop flights, and loss of service to small cities, are two TOTALLY different arguments.

Your case is falling apart all around you.

 

[WNMECH]

absolutely right, WNMech.

I knew you would come around.

 

[WorldTraveler]

uh... so you think I have to argue with everything you say or none at all?
 
what kind of binary logic is that?
 
in the world of airline service, the number of flights is absolutely a key component to measure the level of service. 
 
There are several industry standard methods but it is virtually impossible for a market to have a similar level of service with significantly less flights than compared to a higher frequency pattern.
 
In the DOJ's settlement agreement, AA-US will be free to reduce the number of flights to small/médium sized cities over today's level.  Even the politicians in Washington are smart enough to realize they are getting the short end of the stick and will act to protect their interests and those of their communities.

 

[WNMECH]

uh... so you think I have to argue with everything you say or none at all?
 
what kind of binary logic is that?
 
in the world of airline service, the number of flights is absolutely a key component to measure the level of service. 
 
There are several industry standard methods but it is virtually impossible for a market to have a similar level of service with significantly less flights than compared to a higher frequency pattern.
 
In the DOJ's settlement agreement, AA-US will be free to reduce the number of flights to small/médium sized cities over today's level.  Even the politicians in Washington are smart enough to realize they are getting the short end of the stick and will act to protect their interests and those of their communities.

Right. Got it.


So losing a non-stop flight is the same as losing all service in the minds of you and some in congress.

You don't have to argue with anything I say. I'm just messing with you.

But if connecting flights are still available to these small cities, then they are not losing service.

 

[robbedagain]

Most of those small cities are also served from phl and clt not just dca... but then again swa only operates 737s and til either 2014 or 15 the 717s