Awesome, so you have 1 friend thats cool. That one friend is also the mouthpiece for 10,000 that is even better!
SWA, FL FA agree on SENIORITY
- Thread starter gizmo_sc
- Start date
Kev3188
Veteran
Are "the many" you speak of as eager as you are to keep other members of Middle Class America down in their own self-interest?
Tell ya what; next time some of these pearl clutchers allegedly call you, why don't you just tell 'em to post on here. Heck, you say they're already reading the board, so why not? Then we can see if they all share your same flair for histrionics, or if it's just you...
Yea I will get right on that just for you KEV, I will say "this guy on the forum, yea the one that has nothing to do with this AT deal, the one who is so bored in life, he says you should show your discontent and voice your opinion on the forums, on a deal that is already done". No he wants you to do it not for your opinion really as much as he needs fodder to throw his LIBERAL ideas at you, his name is Kev and he will show why you should sing kum-by ya even if you feel like you got shafted by a company you have worked for for years, he will make you see a whole new light! yep its Kev, no it doesnt matter that he shouldnt even care about this deal or that he seems to step into others business rudely , he is a forum GOD with more than 4700 posts, he needs to be heard and you should listen.
Its time to move on and most are done with it all, but you keep fighting the good fight Kev. I sure hope there is another squablle between Airlines or maybe US goes after AA so you can focus all your incredible insights and comments to those deserving employees. I will keep an eye out for you and your liberal ideas, you can tell the employees to give away everything to the weaker company and be grateful they have a job,,
You got me Kev, I am the ONLY employee that feels a tad bit disgruntled and damned if you didnt catch me. NOT the SWA internals that work for the companyfor years, change depts to have to sit probation again while AT doesnt, the people in Orl who are now about to be pushed back down on reserve nope they are singing Kum by ya, or the scores that say they arent sure about the FA's at AT, etc.. nope you got me I am the only one out of 10,000 and I make up these stories and legitimate concerns because I am bored.
You see I wont lose a thing to AT but when some Original FA in Orl says "I dont care that AT person has a disruption in their life because they are gettin a $30,000 payraise to make up for it, I go back on reserve and I get 0$", they get paid for this ,, Now after talking to you and NYCDelUnUsCont I will just look them in the eye and say, HEY but you can go Close International now on Reserve, your concerns arent real. Good Point Kev no I am the only one that sees the downside of this deal, it wont adversley affect anyone at SWA. Whew now that we got that cleared up, lets move on and BUY OUT another airline, I am ready
xUT
Veteran
Kev3188
Veteran
You don't even have to do any of that; after all, didn't you claim these people were all already on here? if that's actually true, then I'm sure we'll hear from them in short order.
...And yet here you are, day after day, flogging the same dead horse. Apparently, "most" doesn't include you? Maybe you should take your own advice?
I didn't catch anything; all one has to do is read what you write.
Oh, I'm sure there's some disgruntled people out there, but like you, how many are aiming their anger in the wrong direction?
That's right. Not a god damned thing. And yet, instead of being happy that a group of people now have the possibility of enjoying all you and your WN coworkers have, you can't help but keep going on and on as if you were.
*That* mindset makes you an affront to the working class.
Given how you've been reacting to *this* one, if WN goes shopping, again you better keep an AED nearby...
...I rest my case...
Kev3188
Veteran
I guess you avoided the points and questions, why do you care about any of this and why do you feel the need to share such incredibly valuable insights, and for free. After its all said and done instead of minding my own business I think I will do the same, infiltrate other companies threads and go on and on about my thoughts and opinions even though NO ONE asked..lol 
xUT
Veteran
I guess you avoided the points and questions, why do you care about any of this and why do you feel the need to share such incredibly valuable insights, and for free. After its all said and done instead of minding my own business I think I will do the same, infiltrate other companies threads and go on and on about my thoughts and opinions even though NO ONE asked..lol
This is an 'open forum' and some of your co workers do indeed post in other threads and web sites.
Which is good and healthy as discourse and dialog can be a teacher, positive or negative.
FYI, mergers and integration topics are not LUV specific and that is why some of us 'outsiders' watch and sometimes offer our unsolicited 'opinions', for free...
You are more than welcome to offer your opinions on any of the forums here, just as I have.
Take Care,
B) xUT
AvTech04
Senior
I don't know why I'm posting here again, but I have an overwhelming urge to hop on here once more and tell Buscador that this is exactly what I've been saying to you from day one!! This conversation between xUT, KEV and you is exactly what I've been trying to say to you... Let me explain, there may be some FA's that are not to happy about this merger but instead of trying to be a supportive hand, you're being a riot leader focusing on only what you feel is unfair... It almost sounds like you're trying to make an Occupy SWA organization with the original SWA FA's to convey this message of HATRED over the AT FA's... Like you said, many SWA employees watch this forum and follow what's happening with this merger, seeing how the almighty luving SWA employees are going to handle it, and all you're doing is expressing an almost childish temper tantrum over it all.. Like daddy didn't buy you the golden goose or that pony you always wanted. I respect that every single SWA employee worked to build what there is right now, but to not be willing to share it unless you prove yourself attitude is what's going to ruin everything that you guys have built... That's why I keep saying, get over it and move on!!
If the MX agreement goes south and AT gets stapled to the bottom by an arbitrator, then I'm going to be upset, but I'm going to hold my composure ad try to live with it... That's just an example... Same thing should go with you and the FA's. Keep and professional composure and move forward and start working together. People like you, Buscador, are the ones who can destroy everything for eveyone...
See, all this bickering about your already agreed to TA and nobody even noticed that Whitney Houston is dead. (literally just got a text telling me that while I was writing this)
If the MX agreement goes south and AT gets stapled to the bottom by an arbitrator, then I'm going to be upset, but I'm going to hold my composure ad try to live with it... That's just an example... Same thing should go with you and the FA's. Keep and professional composure and move forward and start working together. People like you, Buscador, are the ones who can destroy everything for eveyone...
See, all this bickering about your already agreed to TA and nobody even noticed that Whitney Houston is dead. (literally just got a text telling me that while I was writing this)
Avtech, you just cant help yourself can you, and you are talking out your @#$ if you think an arbitrator will staple you and how many times and ways YOU yourself have explained that,, so its pretty safe for you to talk like a martyr when you know that a STaple will NEVER happen, then you seem like you are %110 incredible giving and understanding person, Well Played
So you force your opinions and obsevations on all the threads(like you lambasted me for doing) and then try to make it look like I am the evil one, well if that makes you more of a martyr good for you.
I am done with talking about the mauling but trying to move on(seems the few like to bring up the dead horse,lol) to how we can all make this Buyout work for all, hence my explanation of why AT needs to stop the whining and insults(you included) so the SWA employees can have some time to get the taste out of their mouths., and if you think that I am way off with my observations and repeating what others say and think so be it... You have your Opinion and most of the times your opinions are level headed so no need to always have the last word, just a thought!!!!
So here is to all the AT martyr's like Avtech who are willing to fall on their swords,
And whitney houston dying impacts your life or mine or anyone reading this in What WAy???
Kev3188
Veteran
I guess you avoided the points and questions, why do you care about any of this and why do you feel the need to share such incredibly valuable insights, and for free. After its all said and done instead of minding my own business I think I will do the same, infiltrate other companies threads and go on and on about my thoughts and opinions even though NO ONE asked..lol
I've clearly explained where I'm coming from several times.
If you still can't figure it out, then you're in worse shape that I thought...
As for posting on other forums, no one said you couldn't; knock yourself out.
Nah, I am in pretty good shape at a company I have and do enjoy(dont have to agree w all decisions) and a job that I enjoy, with the flexibilities and pay that are fantastic. But really thanks for the concerns
Workinaflight
Newbie
- Jan 28, 2012
- 14
- 7
buscador isn't the only one who thinks this is a bad deal. We are already seeing some of the bad things come from it - such as more rules and time consuming procedures implemented just because someone reviewed how AT has done things, and thought they should put some of their stuff in place to make them feel "more at home" I guess. We didn't become who we are - a profitable company for 40 years - by doing things like other airlines. We didn't become who we are by taking on people who were hired by another company, a company with decidedly worse pay and other things. Example - a group of people go apply at Red Lobster or Outback because that is where the bigger money/prestige is. (just using these for an example - not trying to start a restaurant review) The best ones get hired there. The rest go down to Applebees/Chipotle. They take the next best ones. The rest go finally to McDonalds/Burger King and take what they can get. The best and highest paying companies have hired the cream of the crop. The junk at the bottom filters out at some fast food joint. AT is like the fast food joint. Everyone who wanted to work for an airline that couldn't get hired by anyone else works for AT. SWA is the Red Lobster. Not saying that there aren't some subpar employees at SWA, or that there aren't some stellar employees at AT - because there are some of both. Just saying that to give these people the world, and their seniority, is not right to all of us who have been at SWA for many years making it the company who could afford to buy AT. It is a total affront to most of us to give them raises and better benefits - and then they want their seniority too? Give me a break. We get nothing in this deal at all. Nothing. Except more planes, more gates, more employees that are going to suck, more rules, and more whining from our mgmt that they can't afford a pay raise.
As for the comment about "we should be happy that more middle class workers are getting raises and better benefits" =bs. I would be happy if they had WORKED for it like I have. I am not happy when people are just given money and benefits without working for it. Ask me why I'm a Conservative - because it is high time we quit GIVING our tax $ away to people who expect entitlements without doing much to EARN them...
As for the comment about "we should be happy that more middle class workers are getting raises and better benefits" =bs. I would be happy if they had WORKED for it like I have. I am not happy when people are just given money and benefits without working for it. Ask me why I'm a Conservative - because it is high time we quit GIVING our tax $ away to people who expect entitlements without doing much to EARN them...
AvTech04
Senior
There you go, just like Buscador, bashing AT like SWA is such a perfect and superior airline. Comparing AT to burger king and SWA to red lobster... It's a shame that you guys have such a ridiculous attitude. Yes, SWA has been around for 40 yrs and AT fr only 18.. So SWA had a 28 yr head start and was able to build revenue during the regulation period as well the deregulation period, congratulations, good for you!! Standing ovation all around!! But now, here comes a newer generation airline that was surviving post regulation, post 9/11 and still able to compete with legacies like delta and SWA. SWA sees the threat and throws 1.4 billion at it to eliminate it and adopt all of the new generation policy's and procedures!! You're getting more airplanes, more routes, an international jump start, a foot into Atlanta, a total IT system upgrade (on the production side) and you don't expect any changes?? You think the water training is for AT FA's comfort?? What, are you scarred to swim?
I'll agree that our ramp agents are a bit on the slower side compared to SWA, they have a lot less load than SWA ramp agents, but outside of the ramp, AT employees pretty much do the same job as SWA employees have been doing. Oh, I forgot, SWA FA's agreed to clean planes on turns while AT FA's refused to add that to their contract... But now that they are getting such a big raise, I'm sure they won't mind picking up a little trash.. What is really like to see is a high seniority SWA FA grab and haul a life raft that hangs from over their heads.. You can either embrace the inevitable future, or you can sit in the back of the room with people LIKE Buscador and kick and stomp your feet in anger. The chioce is yours. Then again, there's always retirement....
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
- 21,709
- 10,662
- Banned
- #120
interesting interchange between you and a whole lot of people, Kev included.I guess you avoided the points and questions, why do you care about any of this and why do you feel the need to share such incredibly valuable insights, and for free. After its all said and done instead of minding my own business I think I will do the same, infiltrate other companies threads and go on and on about my thoughts and opinions even though NO ONE asked..lol
.
Can I just say that learning from one's experiences and being a thought leader on the subject is one of the highest callings in life.
.
In case you have missed it, Kev is one of several PMNW people who are active on this forum. They represent many PMNW employees who, like the FL people, were really quite happy with their lives and their company and their company's culture until DL came along and acquired NW.
Beside the fact that the DL/NW merger/acquisition/takeover will go down as one of the well executed mergers in the history of the US airline industry in which is strewn the wreckage of many companies, acquired and acquirer, who couldn't get mergers done right.
.
none of us doubt what WN has accomplished in the past and how important the WN culture has been in making much of that happen. But we also aren't dumb - and Kevin can certainly attest to it - that the icy reception many PMNW received initially post-merger and the cultual differences that still persist - wrapped in very different perspectives about life - let alone how to work together - can make or break the success of a company and disconnect alot of people from companies that they once cared about. WN and its BOD bought FL because they see strategic value in what FL has done, in much the same way that DL is benefitting from the enormous commitment NW made to Asia over the years and in so doing created one of the most valuable assets in the industry in the form of the NRT hub. But DL couldn't have made the NRT hub work if individual employees on both sides of the Pacific didn't see the value of that operation and agree to warmly welcome those PMNW employees who make it run day in and day out. The same thing can be said about FL's assets - and the hub WN is gaining in ATL over which FL shed alot of blood to build. To minimize another's contribution in an industry as difficult as the airline industry is really quite sad.
.
My suggestion for you, Buscador, might to humble yourself just a little and listen to some of the network carrier employees who have been on both the side of acquirer and acquired in mergers.... recognizing that when it comes to mergers and acquisitions, network carriers have far more experience - and some have figured out how to do it well.
.
If you care even the slightest about WN - and we truly have to wonder if you do when you can't seem to grasp the concept that mergers succeed or fail based on individual employees, not some grand corporate scheme - then you would do well to learn from some of your peers in the industry who are as interested in seeing WN succeed as many WN people - but who also know how lethal a poorly executed merger - again at the level of individual coworkers - can be and how miserable it can make going to work.
.
May you find it within yourself to warmly welcome your FL colleagues and show them the best of what has made WN great, characteristics that are needed more than ever in order for WN to succeed at some of the greatest challenges it has ever faced.
