SWA, FL FA agree on SENIORITY

[buscador]

While in the Airport I had an epiphany,, ohh ,, well lets just say that I was incognito and was listening to an AT crew talking about the contract vote,(they were a NO) because the thought if they had to clean a plane that a %40 payraise was the least they should get, and they should not have to give up an ounce of seniority,,, lets hope for this airline and the people involved that this doesnt happen,, is it too much to hope for some fairness to help push a path of symmetry???

its under 2 weeks,, but only time will tell ,, good luck

,

 

[swamt]

While in the Airport I had an epiphany,, ohh ,, well lets just say that I was incognito and was listening to an AT crew talking about the contract vote,(they were a NO) because the thought if they had to clean a plane that a %40 payraise was the least they should get, and they should not have to give up an ounce of seniority,,, lets hope for this airline and the people involved that this doesnt happen,, is it too much to hope for some fairness to help push a path of symmetry???

its under 2 weeks,, but only time will tell ,, good luck

,

Hey Bus, As I don't know your contract's ins and outs, just wanted to let you know our contract has provisions in it that utilizes "station probation" when folks move to new stations. This has nothing to do with "probie probation". When someone enters a new station or city they are on "station probation" and it's either for 30 or 90 days, but I think it's for 30. Maybe you guys have the same provision in your contract and can utilize it for the f/a's refusing to clean up the cabins between flts?
Is your voting ending on the 31st? Or on 10th of Feb.? Or are you saying this is when the results are released? Also, what are the intensions of your union, if this is voted by by either side of the f/a's? Is there even a plan if it is voted down?
One more thing, you need to get a hold of that E-mail I told you about. It was handed to me by a f/a on a flt to Tenn. She wouldn't let me keep a copy, but it was a good read. All I know is that it came from a person with a last name of Ford, I remember that because I drive a Ford. It also does a good comparison. If you can you should get a hold of it and post it for all to read. She wasn't trying to sell a yes or no vote just throwing all the facts for everyone to consider out there.

 

[buscador]

Hey Bus, As I don't know your contract's ins and outs, just wanted to let you know our contract has provisions in it that utilizes "station probation" when folks move to new stations. This has nothing to do with "probie probation". When someone enters a new station or city they are on "station probation" and it's either for 30 or 90 days, but I think it's for 30. Maybe you guys have the same provision in your contract and can utilize it for the f/a's refusing to clean up the cabins between flts?
Is your voting ending on the 31st? Or on 10th of Feb.? Or are you saying this is when the results are released? Also, what are the intensions of your union, if this is voted by by either side of the f/a's? Is there even a plan if it is voted down?
One more thing, you need to get a hold of that E-mail I told you about. It was handed to me by a f/a on a flt to Tenn. She wouldn't let me keep a copy, but it was a good read. All I know is that it came from a person with a last name of Ford, I remember that because I drive a Ford. It also does a good comparison. If you can you should get a hold of it and post it for all to read. She wasn't trying to sell a yes or no vote just throwing all the facts for everyone to consider out there.

Swamt,

The vote is done on the 31st and the results are supposed to be out on the first as far as I know,,, the threat that the union implies is that if a no vote is registered on either side an arbitratiion date is already set up for Feb 6th....dont like the deal and dont like our own union threatining us,, they of course say they arent.

As far as a probation period, there will be none... the Major concern for just about every FA I have talked to is the PERCEIVED attitudes and work ethics of the AT FA's
..

Again most have only heard rumors so we shall see,, but going from a 3-5 hour work day wit 2-3 flts... to a 10 hour work day w 5-6 flts,,,, or sitting around while someone is cleaning your plane vs. getting a plane turned in 25 min may be a challenge for many of those not used to it... If the %40 pay raise is expected (not appreciated) by most at AT, then can we at SWA expect to see %40 more effort and appreciation from them?? ahh thats where we go Back to human nature....and I would bet against it,, not saying it couldnt happen just highly unlikely....

Again, come Feb 1st everyone will know more... the word on the street(again not worth much) is that if SWA votes Yes and AT votes No,, yes,it will go to arbitration ,,but GK can definitely show many ways of his displeasure,, Also they have a mandatory 10 day SMT(southwest merger training) where the company has latitude over their attitude

Its too late in the game for us, there will be no going back to the table. They dont need to..but there is talk that they want to....wow...Pause,, Can anyone look at this deal,, SEE what AT FA's are getting and Tell me when in Modern Aviation HIstory(last 25 years) a group of FA's have ever gotten More....... for doing absolutely NOTHING but getting BOUGHT OUT???????? I didnt think so,, but I digress

So over on the AT side ,,,who are racking up the biggest FA windfall possibly in American Aviation History ,, well that doesnt seem to be enough according to certain emails,,, many of them want the 2.5 years bidding back ,, they believe that ALL aribitrators will give them everything plus more.. some even talk about relative seniority,, RELATIVE not percentage,,but Position wise,,,

but hey that is fair....Mimi #1 18 years,, under our #1 Sandra 40 years,, I will step away at this point and leave it alone,,, I am stepping away,, stepping away........ :angry: .........st..e...p..p.,,ing........s...t....e...p.........p...... :angry:


I am only one Voice with ONLY ONE Vote,,, B)

So its a watch and see,, will the company flex its muscles using its LATITUDE OVER Airtran ATTITUDEs???

 

[Workinaflight]

I don't know what will happen with the FA's - but the Ramp should be a brutal fight. From what we have observed from being at a station with AT - for the most part their Ramp agents are pretty bad - and less then 20% of them would probably actually be worthy of working for SWA if they were actually having to apply for a job and pass probation. We stack more bags in one BIN then those guys put on the entire plane - and do it much faster. Their lax "appearance code" is bad too. Ramp agents shouldn't have dreads hanging halfway down their back and their pants hanging off their butts. Now I don't condemn them all - they do have some good guys over there, and of course SWA has it's 15% of "underachievers" - but for them to just be given a better job, a huge pay raise, better benefits, AND their seniority??? With NO PROBATION??? That is not gonna happen without a big fight - and since they won't have any kind of probation they should go to the bottom of the SWA list. Or accept a probationary period and take 1/2 seniority... Giving them everything for nothing just isn't fair to all of us at SWA - considering WE bought THEM..

 

[buscador]

I don't know what will happen with the FA's - but the Ramp should be a brutal fight. From what we have observed from being at a station with AT - for the most part their Ramp agents are pretty bad - and less then 20% of them would probably actually be worthy of working for SWA if they were actually having to apply for a job and pass probation. We stack more bags in one BIN then those guys put on the entire plane - and do it much faster. Their lax "appearance code" is bad too. Ramp agents shouldn't have dreads hanging halfway down their back and their pants hanging off their butts. Now I don't condemn them all - they do have some good guys over there, and of course SWA has it's 15% of "underachievers" - but for them to just be given a better job, a huge pay raise, better benefits, AND their seniority??? With NO PROBATION??? That is not gonna happen without a big fight - and since they won't have any kind of probation they should go to the bottom of the SWA list. Or accept a probationary period and take 1/2 seniority... Giving them everything for nothing just isn't fair to all of us at SWA - considering WE bought THEM..

Whooaaa whoaaa Whoaaa,, slow down there big guy,, let me take this all in,,,slow it down,, I am not very bright,, Ok now,, so You are telling me that the AT people shouldnt just come into this deal and take everything, they should have to give up something???, how dare U

Your telling me that AT people shouldnt be handed a %40+ raise and be apart of a much BETTER company, for doing absolutely nothing but being bought out, that even though AT paid them what they were worth, Suddenly now overnight they are worth %40 MORE for the same exact JOb, U think thats not fair,, Ludicrous??

You think SWA should actually have some rights or protections, when getting rid of the BAD APPLES, That SWA shouldnt have to accept any and all bad attitudes and work ethics?? preposterous

You want some kind of Probation period ,, making them responsible for their attitudes and their work ethics ,, are you suggesting actually disrupting their lives and mindsets an ounce or two?? Absurd

You think that giving them everything for nothing,, thats not FAIR, cmon dude,, remember SWA gets Atlanta(best city in whole wide world) and someday when there are more than 2 flights a week(lol) and you want to take your family to mexico,, you get that,,,,,, so dont look at it as they are taking everything and you personally gain nothing,, thats well,, Insane

This deal may look like you will get absolutely NOTHING Personally,, no you wont get a raise, or get to move up to a better company,, but yes ,you will get lose some seniority at your station..too people who have never worn your uniform,,but you will be a part of a
bigger company and have more seniority overall(doesnt that ease your bidding pains)

O yea and you get to listen to them complain about how they All deserve DOH or maybe even Respective Seniority(depending on dept), get to hear how they are all victims of this big bad deal and how SWA swept away a Highly Productive Super duper Co..,,,as they all go to the bank and cash Paychecks worth Tens of Thousands of dollars more a year,, AT couldnt Pay them that kind of money but big bad SWA can and they justify in their heads now that they somehow deserve it and shouldnt have to give up a damn thing(well mechs excluded so far),.., But I think they Deserve it,, yep I do, even when everyone else may think its unbelievable or even outrageous... But no way.. not me...

So I think you may have to slow down from now on,, next you will be expecting to hear AT people using words/or showing ,,, gratitude, respect, fairness, appreciativeness, gratefulness, acknowledgment, now that is just Outlandish ,,,

so may I suggest you just go back to what ever break room you crawled out of and stop with all of these iniquitous suggestions ,, because your reputation points will go very bad, very quickly from AT people pushing the minus button,,, even though you may be speaking the truth,, it is not welcomed here,, shhh just trying to help you out a bit,,,

and you will do good to always remember,,
TWO GREAT COMPANIES COMING TOGETHER

Have a nice day,

 

[buscador]

NycDelta,

You keep asking what I think is Fair, even though I have stated it many many different times,,, I never stated Staple,,, what I think is FAIR as far as the AT Fa's is simply this,,,,

They get to take their Payrate,,,, come to SWA at that exact Payrate or one step UP,, and where ever that lands them on the seniority list is where it lands them,,,,, They make more money, more productive trips and gave up SOMETHING,,,,, but I am sure that is incredibly unfair,,,

 

[buscador]

What's in it for the native WN employees? All those years of industry-leading pay and thus far, no demand for concessions. And no loss of relative seniority, as BoeingBoy pointed out.

Once AA is done trimming the pay of its employees, however, it's only a matter of time before the concession train makes a stop at LUV. That's when things will really get ugly.

You are 100% correct,, will the AT deal make the concession train move faster down those tracks?? who knows,,, but when the train stops at the LUV station who do you think will be hit way harder...

1- the original employees who worked years to finally get a industry leading contract that we have only enjoyed for a couple of years OR

2-a group that took %40 instant payraises for doing their same job when their company couldnt afford those kind of rates,, well I guess we buckle in and hope the concession train stays away,, at least long enough for the AT people to enjoy what an industry leading contract was like,,,,still havent heard a thank you to any SWA employee

Seems it would be easier to take a concession on salaries that were overnite raised %40 then salaries that took 20+years to earn ... but then again I am ridiculously unfair,,, when I voted,,, I was looking for the give AT relative seniority box,, just couldnt find it,,, I just wish there was more we could give them all at AT ,,, YEAAAAA

 

[Workinaflight]

Whooaaa whoaaa Whoaaa,, slow down there big guy,, let me take this all in,,,slow it down,, I am not very bright,, Ok now,, so You are telling me that the AT people shouldnt just come into this deal and take everything, they should have to give up something???, how dare U

Your telling me that AT people shouldnt be handed a %40+ raise and be apart of a much BETTER company, for doing absolutely nothing but being bought out, that even though AT paid them what they were worth, Suddenly now overnight they are worth %40 MORE for the same exact JOb, U think thats not fair,, Ludicrous??

You think SWA should actually have some rights or protections, when getting rid of the BAD APPLES, That SWA shouldnt have to accept any and all bad attitudes and work ethics?? preposterous

You want some kind of Probation period ,, making them responsible for their attitudes and their work ethics ,, are you suggesting actually disrupting their lives and mindsets an ounce or two?? Absurd

You think that giving them everything for nothing,, thats not FAIR, cmon dude,, remember SWA gets Atlanta(best city in whole wide world) and someday when there are more than 2 flights a week(lol) and you want to take your family to mexico,, you get that,,,,,, so dont look at it as they are taking everything and you personally gain nothing,, thats well,, Insane

This deal may look like you will get absolutely NOTHING Personally,, no you wont get a raise, or get to move up to a better company,, but yes ,you will get lose some seniority at your station..too people who have never worn your uniform,,but you will be a part of a
bigger company and have more seniority overall(doesnt that ease your bidding pains)

O yea and you get to listen to them complain about how they All deserve DOH or maybe even Respective Seniority(depending on dept), get to hear how they are all victims of this big bad deal and how SWA swept away a Highly Productive Super duper Co..,,,as they all go to the bank and cash Paychecks worth Tens of Thousands of dollars more a year,, AT couldnt Pay them that kind of money but big bad SWA can and they justify in their heads now that they somehow deserve it and shouldnt have to give up a damn thing(well mechs excluded so far),.., But I think they Deserve it,, yep I do, even when everyone else may think its unbelievable or even outrageous... But no way.. not me...

So I think you may have to slow down from now on,, next you will be expecting to hear AT people using words/or showing ,,, gratitude, respect, fairness, appreciativeness, gratefulness, acknowledgment, now that is just Outlandish ,,,

so may I suggest you just go back to what ever break room you crawled out of and stop with all of these iniquitous suggestions ,, because your reputation points will go very bad, very quickly from AT people pushing the minus button,,, even though you may be speaking the truth,, it is not welcomed here,, shhh just trying to help you out a bit,,,

and you will do good to always remember,,
TWO GREAT COMPANIES COMING TOGETHER

Have a nice day,

Not entirely sure what you are insinuating here - but even though I just joined up on this board - I am a veteran of many other forums. Are you trying to tell me that speaking my mind, and not necessarily being "politically correct" will get me canned from here??? I always thought forums were for DISCUSSION of topics - and that means that we are not all of the same opinion? Or are you tellin me that the AT people on here will gang up and get me thrown off because I choose to speak the truth about what 99% of our agents think but don't have guts enough to come out and say? No AT Ramper will affect my seniority anyhow - so that doesn't affect me. I just don't believe they should be given the world - like they had been interviewed and hired by SWA in the first place - just because we bought them. They should be glad to get the pay raise and better company, and have a job. None of them will be laid off. No jobs will be lost. But they should NOT affect anyone's seniority at SWA - if they had wanted seniority at SWA - then they should have applied here instead of AT... Sorry if it ruffles feathers - but look at it the OTHER way - what would AT people want if they had bought SWA? Would they be willing to let ME bump them down???

 

[buscador]

Not entirely sure what you are insinuating here - but even though I just joined up on this board - I am a veteran of many other forums. Are you trying to tell me that speaking my mind, and not necessarily being "politically correct" will get me canned from here??? I always thought forums were for DISCUSSION of topics - and that means that we are not all of the same opinion? Or are you tellin me that the AT people on here will gang up and get me thrown off because I choose to speak the truth about what 99% of our agents think but don't have guts enough to come out and say? No AT Ramper will affect my seniority anyhow - so that doesn't affect me. I just don't believe they should be given the world - like they had been interviewed and hired by SWA in the first place - just because we bought them. They should be glad to get the pay raise and better company, and have a job. None of them will be laid off. No jobs will be lost. But they should NOT affect anyone's seniority at SWA - if they had wanted seniority at SWA - then they should have applied here instead of AT... Sorry if it ruffles feathers - but look at it the OTHER way - what would AT people want if they had bought SWA? Would they be willing to let ME bump them down???

Exactly,,, exactly,, no I was just telling you that the AT people seem to think that voting on your post with a negative vote will change the reality you speak,,, keep it up ,,, it is refreshing to hear it,,, YOU keep on going,,,,

 

[NYCDelta]

NycDelta,

You keep asking what I think is Fair, even though I have stated it many many different times,,, I never stated Staple,,, what I think is FAIR as far as the AT Fa's is simply this,,,,

They get to take their Payrate,,,, come to SWA at that exact Payrate or one step UP,, and where ever that lands them on the seniority list is where it lands them,,,,, They make more money, more productive trips and gave up SOMETHING,,,,, but I am sure that is incredibly unfair,,,

OK,,,,,got,,,,,it,,,,,

 

[buscador]

OK,,,,,got,,,,,it,,,,,

incredibly insightful, New York delta, Charlotte US, Denver United, IAH continental, make up your mind. One team One airline


I dont need to make up my mind, I am not a bitter person outside this AT mauling

 

[AvTech04]

incredibly insightful, New York delta, Charlotte US, Denver United, IAH continental, make up your mind. One team One airline


I dont need to make up my mind, I am not a bitter person outside this AT mauling

So how much time do you need to get over yourself, a week, a month, a year?? This prolonged bitterness you have towards the AT people is what's going to ruin this so-called culture you preach so much of. What, is SWA some kind of super human group that no one can be apart of without making some sort of sacrifice first? Is this a cult or an airline? You're so angry becaue maybe, just maybe, AT employees might be getting a fair shot at this integration instead of being trampled all over by the almighty Southwest airlines and it's infinite money and power...

You keep saying that we should pay some sort of price, but, we are!! For the FA's that have AT premium routes to international destinations, they are now further down the list than before and their lives are getting interrupted because they probably won't be able to keep those slots. Now they have more resposibilities like cleaning an A/C on a turn. And they gave, keep in mind GAVE, SWA FA's a 2.5 year bump in seniority as a show of good faith and yet you are still unpleased..

I think you're on to something though. Maybe SWA should implement a probation period for ALL contract employees, that way they can weed out ALL the disgruntled dead weight and keep only the best out there!! Since you're so good, you shouldn't have a problem passing through probation again now should you??

 

[buscador]

So how much time do you need to get over yourself, a week, a month, a year?? This prolonged bitterness you have towards the AT people is what's going to ruin this so-called culture you preach so much of. What, is SWA some kind of super human group that no one can be apart of without making some sort of sacrifice first? Is this a cult or an airline? You're so angry becaue maybe, just maybe, AT employees might be getting a fair shot at this integration instead of being trampled all over by the almighty Southwest airlines and it's infinite money and power...

You keep saying that we should pay some sort of price, but, we are!! For the FA's that have AT premium routes to international destinations, they are now further down the list than before and their lives are getting interrupted because they probably won't be able to keep those slots. Now they have more resposibilities like cleaning an A/C on a turn. And they gave, keep in mind GAVE, SWA FA's a 2.5 year bump in seniority as a show of good faith and yet you are still unpleased..

I think you're on to something though. Maybe SWA should implement a probation period for ALL contract employees, that way they can weed out ALL the disgruntled dead weight and keep only the best out there!! Since you're so good, you shouldn't have a problem passing through probation again now should you??

Wow, now correct me if I am wrong but didnt you call me a little troll because I dared make comments on your Mech thread? but again you must be mightier than everyone cause you dont have to follow your own advice, or is it that you simply think your opinion is so much more important and valued???

So help clear it up for me, if I am a little troll for my rants on others threads,, then what are you for ranting here ?? would you consider yourself more narcissitic, or is it more out of arrogance, ignorance that you can rant where ever, when ever you want?

You have the right to say what you want I guess,, So with all the wisdom you have to bless me with I guess I should really sit down with you and adaspera and let YOU both tell me all about SWA and how AT was the best thing ever for SWA, how we needed you more than you needed us!!


Your probation idea, come on are you real... I understand the culture here seeing as I AM a Original SWA employee,, soyou think we should have to sit probation again. Why doesnt it surprise me that you would think that, I have proven myself as you have not but because you DESERVE everything you or any AT person should not have to prove themselves,,

...why dont we have SWA employees sit probation and all the GREAT AT employees not have to, why not !! The changes you poor guys may have too endure is asking to much for a measly 45% raise with a far superior company, so I vote for 100% AT raises, relative Seniority and never an interuption to your lives,, THATS FAIR to me where can I vote

I think it is way too much to ask for someone to clean a plane, or do some extra Paperwork when they make %40+ pay increases,, so do many at AT from the posts I have read!!
so maybe you would be more amicable if it WAS 100% pay raise, relative seniority?? Maybe then we at SWA would see some apprectiation , no thats crazy,, NEVERMIND

 

[Workinaflight]

Wow. Don't know if AvTech04 means he got hired in 04 or not - but it sounds like he is more then a little bitter...
If that is what it means - then grow some seniority before you rant about something..
What these AT employees aren't looking at is this - what would THEY want if the sale was reversed and AT had purchased SWA? Would they want to just let a large part of us who have been working for SWA longer then AT has even been a COMPANY bump ALL of them down by giving US 100% seniority??? I think not...

 

[NYCDelta]

incredibly insightful, New York delta, Charlotte US, Denver United, IAH continental, make up your mind. One team One airline


I dont need to make up my mind, I am not a bitter person outside this AT mauling

Didn't mean to confuse you Buscadorrrrrr.