SWA, FL FA agree on SENIORITY

[buscador]

That's fine-but I doubt the person I was referring to (a flight attendant) would vote "yes" because of a hug or a handshake. He/she wants something-we're just trying to figure out what it is.

Lol, who is "we're" ?? are you having a secret Airline Forums party and I wasnt invited,, so you guys are passing around stories and having a few cocktails,, and someone says hey, what does Buscador really want anyway?? thanks for thinking of me

I have stated what I think is fair many times,, Take all of one or the other..RAISE OR SENIORITY not BOTH, simple

Now some trannies(I guess thats what they call themselves) are talking about how a vote NO will steal back, oops I mean get them their 2.5 years back,,, so is that fair-NO , it that respectful-NO, does it show gratitude-NO,, that will cause a huge divide,,for the rest of their carreers, simple

[u] re·spect·ed, re·spect·ing, re·spects. 1. To feel or show deferential regard for; esteem. 2. To avoid violation of or interference with[/u]

When the two companies are stacked side by side, one is obviously Superior,,,now I am not an advocate of handing out trophies to all the kids and saying that they all won,, on little league and soccer fields around this country it happens all the time... someone has to realize how this confuses kids and teaches them very little Respect or esteem ,, Winning and Losing is a part of life,, BEing 1st is from hard work and a better game plan, 2nd Place is never as good and leaves the team with a desire to become better,,Do you ever think the BOD of SWA ever sat around and said,, OK team, next year what can we do Better to be just LIKE AT..

I have seen not one ounce of respect from people like Ad astra per aspera, no quiet the opposite as he lays out thinly veiled threats,, I just can't wait to fly with you, buscador. Or with any other WN employee who thinks they are God's Own gift to aviation. I am guessing that because I know that our team is 1st and Superior that makes me think I am Gods gift to aviation, NO I am a simple Employee for a Superior Airline,,

and why would he be so excited to fly with me?? I guess that if there are true Gods Gift to Aviation it would be him and All the AT FA's,, because they are the ones who OVERNITE just got a %40-50 raise for doing absolutely nothing,, so then he must want to take the SWA 1st place trophy and run around the field and shove it in my face ,,that must be it.... I have little use for his stories or his snow job explaining how AT was a huge money making, incredible company, and his litany of excuses why AT is equal to SWA,,, funny thing 1st place teams NEVER need excuses.. Just like 1st Place Cities, simply Know they ARE as they listen to Cities like ATL claim they are,,hint,, ATL will never be NY,Chicago,LA, or a #1 tourist destination(unless you like crime),,but I digress




grat·i·tude/ˈgratəˌt(y)o͞od/
Noun:The quality of being thankful; readiness to show appreciation for and to return kindness.

I have not seen one ounce of Gratitude to SWA either, that would mean that Adaspera and AT would have to have the quality of being thankful, or the readiness to show appreciation(dont see it happening)---,,

then realize they got BOUGHT out by the 1st place company,, they would then realize giving up some seniority would be showing Gratitude, understanding that the 1st place trophy isnt really theirs to claim but they got it anyway,, Gratitude is not screaming arbitration,, thats not gratitude?? But I have never lived in the BEST City in the Whole Wide World(ATL,, maybe in the south This is how their perverse justice/rationaliztion works???

So you can hide your second place trophies in the closet and now you can Proudly display your 1st place trophy where everyone can see, and when your kids team comes in 2nd, 3rd or 10th place you just tell them,, ITS Ok, you run around the field son, hold up that 1st place trophy HIgh, and if for some reason he dare ask WHY daddy, our team didnt win,, you simply pat him on the head and say,,O yes son WE did, We truly Did,,,then tell him hurry cause he needs to get tucked in SAnta is Coming tonite,,who says there is not SAnta,,Santa even came in May of 2011(for AT)

The vote starts tomorrow, so I know how much everyone will miss my tirades,, again I was happy for everyone at AT until they tried to take it all,,, take your 2.5 hit and move on,,, or go to arbitration,,your choice,, I will vote my NO, and move on,, fortunately for me I fly whatever and with whomever I like(sorry AdAStra you will NEVER have the pleasure of flying with me) ,,, for the junior SWA FA's its a different story,,Good luck to them

 

[AvTech04]

Lol, who is "we're" ?? are you having a secret Airline Forums party and I wasnt invited,, so you guys are passing around stories and having a few cocktails,, and someone says hey, what does Buscador really want anyway?? thanks for thinking of me

I have stated what I think is fair many times,, Take all of one or the other..RAISE OR SENIORITY not BOTH, simple

Now some trannies(I guess thats what they call themselves) are talking about how a vote NO will steal back, oops I mean get them their 2.5 years back,,, so is that fair-NO , it that respectful-NO, does it show gratitude-NO,, that will cause a huge divide,,for the rest of their carreers, simple

[u] re·spect·ed, re·spect·ing, re·spects. 1. To feel or show deferential regard for; esteem. 2. To avoid violation of or interference with[/u]

When the two companies are stacked side by side, one is obviously Superior,,,now I am not an advocate of handing out trophies to all the kids and saying that they all won,, on little league and soccer fields around this country it happens all the time... someone has to realize how this confuses kids and teaches them very little Respect or esteem ,, Winning and Losing is a part of life,, BEing 1st is from hard work and a better game plan, 2nd Place is never as good and leaves the team with a desire to become better,,Do you ever think the BOD of SWA ever sat around and said,, OK team, next year what can we do Better to be just LIKE AT..

I have seen not one ounce of respect from people like Ad astra per aspera, no quiet the opposite as he lays out thinly veiled threats,, I just can't wait to fly with you, buscador. Or with any other WN employee who thinks they are God's Own gift to aviation. I am guessing that because I know that our team is 1st and Superior that makes me think I am Gods gift to aviation, NO I am a simple Employee for a Superior Airline,,

and why would he be so excited to fly with me?? I guess that if there are true Gods Gift to Aviation it would be him and All the AT FA's,, because they are the ones who OVERNITE just got a %40-50 raise for doing absolutely nothing,, so then he must want to take the SWA 1st place trophy and run around the field and shove it in my face ,,that must be it.... I have little use for his stories or his snow job explaining how AT was a huge money making, incredible company, and his litany of excuses why AT is equal to SWA,,, funny thing 1st place teams NEVER need excuses.. Just like 1st Place Cities, simply Know they ARE as they listen to Cities like ATL claim they are,,hint,, ATL will never be NY,Chicago,LA, or a #1 tourist destination(unless you like crime),,but I digress




grat·i·tude/ˈgratəˌt(y)o͞od/
Noun:The quality of being thankful; readiness to show appreciation for and to return kindness.

I have not seen one ounce of Gratitude to SWA either, that would mean that Adaspera and AT would have to have the quality of being thankful, or the readiness to show appreciation(dont see it happening)---,,

then realize they got BOUGHT out by the 1st place company,, they would then realize giving up some seniority would be showing Gratitude, understanding that the 1st place trophy isnt really theirs to claim but they got it anyway,, Gratitude is not screaming arbitration,, thats not gratitude?? But I have never lived in the BEST City in the Whole Wide World(ATL,, maybe in the south This is how their perverse justice/rationaliztion works???

So you can hide your second place trophies in the closet and now you can Proudly display your 1st place trophy where everyone can see, and when your kids team comes in 2nd, 3rd or 10th place you just tell them,, ITS Ok, you run around the field son, hold up that 1st place trophy HIgh, and if for some reason he dare ask WHY daddy, our team didnt win,, you simply pat him on the head and say,,O yes son WE did, We truly Did,,,then tell him hurry cause he needs to get tucked in SAnta is Coming tonite,,who says there is not SAnta,,Santa even came in May of 2011(for AT)

The vote starts tomorrow, so I know how much everyone will miss my tirades,, again I was happy for everyone at AT until they tried to take it all,,, take your 2.5 hit and move on,,, or go to arbitration,,your choice,, I will vote my NO, and move on,, fortunately for me I fly whatever and with whomever I like(sorry AdAStra you will NEVER have the pleasure of flying with me) ,,, for the junior SWA FA's its a different story,,Good luck to them

Buscador, you're the wrench in the gear here... I hope and pray that the rest of the SWA employees are not like you, horrid and filled with disgust. You try and out wit everyone on this forum and then turn around and complement them on a sarcastic tone all on the same post... Hearing your rants on here is like watching the movie half-baked, it just wastes peoples time and kills brain cells. I'm sorry to sound disrespectful but all of your post are having the adverse effect that we should be looking for here. We all have to work together at the end of it and you seem to not be willing to accept it no matter what!! You hate your union, you hate the AT FA, actually almost every other FA that's not SWA, you obviously hate the idea that AirTran may have just been an equal competitor to SWA... All this hate you portray but you work for the airline that carries its motto of LUV on its shoulder.. I just don't get it. I feel bed for you, apparently having nothing else in your life I bring you joy. Maybe your wingmate can cheer you up!!

 

[buscador]

Buscador, you're the wrench in the gear here... I hope and pray that the rest of the SWA employees are not like you, horrid and filled with disgust. You try and out wit everyone on this forum and then turn around and complement them on a sarcastic tone all on the same post... Hearing your rants on here is like watching the movie half-baked, it just wastes peoples time and kills brain cells. I'm sorry to sound disrespectful but all of your post are having the adverse effect that we should be looking for here. We all have to work together at the end of it and you seem to not be willing to accept it no matter what!! You hate your union, you hate the AT FA, actually almost every other FA that's not SWA, you obviously hate the idea that AirTran may have just been an equal competitor to SWA... All this hate you portray but you work for the airline that carries its motto of LUV on its shoulder.. I just don't get it. I feel bed for you, apparently having nothing else in your life I bring you joy. Maybe your wingmate can cheer you up!!

hate is a strong word,, I dont think AT employees appreciate the impact of this deal,,, I have a strong opinion on what this company SWA has done in the last 20+ years,,, I may be overprotective to a fault,, my sarcasm is simpy an outlet to show those the truth,, it is insulting to me and many SWA people that you or any one at AT compare the two companies,, we are not equals,, sorry..

You hope that other SWA people aren t like me?? well I hope they are, that they are just like you and Me.. that they have pride in what they do, they have compassion and commitment,, I hope all SWA people feel A deep respect and appreciation for this company SWA,,, I hope for all the swa employees that SWA has changed their lifes and made it BETTER like it has mine,, I have worked and spent Many many years here,, so pardon my passion and my commitment,,as sometimes it may come off in the wrong way, comes off as protective and abrasive,,, but I have seen the bad times. bad contracts, etc,,,,and now I try to enjoy the good times,, we all know that can change,, I accept your judgement of me but I will hold my judgement of you,,,,I will always appreciate what SWA has done for me!!!

So let the AT people take what is not theirs to take, that is life,,, it will all balance itself in the end,,, AT as a company and an Airline was decent at best, no disrespect to any employees,, its just a fact,,,,, AT employees got a better deal in this whole transaction and I feel they should be grateful(not their reality),, if you cant see that.. then you are simply living in another world,, its ok,, when it comes to FA's stealing seniority,,it may work for them, good for them in this moment,,,they get to take huge pay raises,, good,,, but it is NOT right to take both,,,,its going to be a problem,, that REALITY is Human Nature and May have many repercussions,,, You call me the Wrench,thats ok,,, but outside this deal,you and I would have many good debates over a beer or two(you seem realistic and logical),,I am not un realistic, I am not illogical,, I enjoy life,,I enjoy my carreer, I enjoy my company,, but if you think that AT didnt get a better deal ,, that AT is EQual as an airline to SWA,,,well again its your opinion, I respectfully disagree with that assertation

I applaud your efforts,, I applaud your commitment and desire,,,, but reality is a Place I live in,,AT wins,,, AT was a decent airline,, but SWA was stronger and Better ,, that is for now,,it could all change after this deal,, only the future knows,, sorry reality is such a hard place to live in for many at AT,, enjoy your new company,, hope you can stay in ATL/MCO or wherever,,,, I hope you dont have any disruptions in your life,,, but to say I am a bad person, or angry,, well that is simpy your opinion,, I respect your right to have your opinion,, as I have a right to mine,, You and I will never meet, as I will never meet many or any AT FA's,, but I do wish good luck to you ,,good luck to all the AT people.. fair or not

If you get DOH then good luck,, do you or anyone at AT deserve huge payraises and DOH,,NO,, if you get that,, you have taken too much,, so oohhh give me -1 , who cares,,its only my opinion,,but unlike the POM POM liberals in this world,, at least with me you know where I stand,, FAIRNESS is a commodity that is traded by very few,,,,,

I am not here to make friends, I am not here to wave POM POMs, I am here to hope that fairness prevails,,, and unfortunately that doesnt seem possible,, so you think AT people will take DOH and all the perks??? and that is fair,, well it is unrealistic, how anyone at AT can think SWA people who personally gain Nothing will think its Fair,, not going to happen,, the Great Divide for all of our Careers is about to be seen ,,,,

Good thing for you and all involved my tirades and rants are coming to an end,, I will Vote NO,,, I will live with the outcome,, I will Enjoy my job, I will Enjoy my/Our company and hope it Can sustain the levels, the quality I have worked my entire career to gain,,I will Stand up and fight for my carreer, For This Company,, For SWA,,,,as should you,,good luck to us all,,,,, good nite

 

[Kev3188]

I know what -Ad astra per aspera- means

Oh good; that means you've been bastradizing it on purpose. How fun...

Lol, who is "we're" ??

Everyone that's been reading this thread from the get-go.

Now some trannies(I guess thats what they call themselves)

Jesus.

You just can't help yourself, can you?

Good thing for you and all involved my tirades and rants are coming to an end,,

We should be so lucky. I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[buscador]

Oh good; that means you've been bastradizing it on purpose. How fun...




Everyone that's been reading this thread from the get-go.
Jesus.

You just can't help yourself, can you?


We should be so lucky. I'll believe it when I see it.

You may be correct on all accounts,, lol ,, nice observations,,good job,, hey at least I am honest,,
have a good night

 

[NYCDelta]

RAISE OR SENIORITY not BOTH, simple

I have not seen one ounce of Gratitude to SWA either,

So you want the AT people who will be doing the same job as you, working under the same contract, paying dues to the same union to either give up seniority (on top of the 2.5 years you will already be getting) or work for less pay/benefits or inferior work rules? Oh, and on top of that also show appreciation to you and all the WN employees? What planet do you live on?

Buscador, you're the wrench in the gear here...

I am starting to feel Buscador is a little passive/aggressive. On the one hand he/she states he/she wants everyone to get along and wishes no harm to anyone-AS LONG AS AT PEOPLE GIVE UP SOMETHING in addition to the 2.5 years that everyone at WN (F/A) will get.

hate is a strong word,, I dont think AT employees appreciate the impact of this deal,,,

No, I'm starting to feel that YOU don't appreciate the impact of this deal. WN bought AT. Your leaders felt there was a lot of value in the AT network, or they never would have shelled out the money for it.

 

[buscador]

NYC/Delta/united/twa/psa/frontier

Wow, so you think SWA thought AT had value, thats why SWA shelled out money for them,, you sure you shouldnt be in M&A dept somewhere on wall street,, your insights are incredible....shh dont tell anyone,, No one else would of thought that,,your acumen never ceases to amaze me

What Planet do I live on,, well it has now become painfully obvious that I live on one where its not only OK to take everything that you didnt earn, its actually expected,, where gratitude and respect for what you have taken and from whom you have taken it from,, is never needed and actually frowned upon

Sweet world isnt it,, and some have the audacity to say,, why cant we just all get along!!

 

[num1bearsfan]

No, I'm starting to feel that YOU don't appreciate the impact of this deal. WN bought AT. Your leaders felt there was a lot of value in the AT network, or they never would have shelled out the money for it.

This has been a reoccurring statement coming from the AirTran side of this debate and it completely confuses the issue. The matter of our company finding your company desirable from an asset standpoint was between the two companies and their shareholders. The matter of integrating our work groups are between our work groups.. It's not even a company matter. It's for AMFA and IBT, TWU and IAM to hash out for the best interests of it's (incumbent) members.

It seems to me like the case being made by Airtran folks is that in exchange for your work groups receiving full seniority while coming onto OUR contracts, our company stands to gain all sorts of AirTran awesomeness by way of "experience of flying international" and things of that nature.. So again, that's great for the company and their share holders.. But what's the give and take within the confines of our work groups? Seems like it's all give on our end and all take on your end.

 

[FWAAA]

What's in it for the native WN employees? All those years of industry-leading pay and thus far, no demand for concessions. And no loss of relative seniority, as BoeingBoy pointed out.

Once AA is done trimming the pay of its employees, however, it's only a matter of time before the concession train makes a stop at LUV. That's when things will really get ugly.

 

[num1bearsfan]

What's in it for the native WN employees? All those years of industry-leading pay and thus far, no demand for concessions. And no loss of relative seniority, as BoeingBoy pointed out.

Once AA is done trimming the pay of its employees, however, it's only a matter of time before the concession train makes a stop at LUV. That's when things will really get ugly.

Well first of all,.. Uhm.. I'm not exactly clear how this statement plays into what we're even talking about. Or that it even makes sense. It seems like you were onto a point and then your brain farted and your post became two fragmented thoughts. So let me understand your point. What we gain from this AirTran integration is all of the high pay we HAVE received in the past, but we're in line for concessions soon...

Wow thanks for that.. Come back again with more of your genius airline offerings.

 

[buscador]

What's in it for the native WN employees? All those years of industry-leading pay and thus far, no demand for concessions. And no loss of relative seniority, as BoeingBoy pointed out.

Once AA is done trimming the pay of its employees, however, it's only a matter of time before the concession train makes a stop at LUV. That's when things will really get ugly.

Well now that you put it that way,, I am ecstatic.. SWA is far stronger and their employees the ones who built the company are now in a Postition of hoping not To LOSE wow,,,,, while the weaker smaller company has EVERYTHING to gain,,, but hey SWA FA's get mexico overnights some day,, thats a good offset for $30k a yr payraise,, I am so excited I can barely see straight,,,and no LOSS of relative seniority,,, wow ,, cant wait to Buy Out another Airline,,,

 

[wnbubbleboy]

Well now that you put it that way,, I am ecstatic.. SWA is far stronger and their employees the ones who built the company are now in a Postition of hoping not To LOSE wow,,,,, while the weaker smaller company has EVERYTHING to gain,,, but hey SWA FA's get mexico overnights some day,, thats a good offset for $30k a yr payraise,, I am so excited I can barely see straight,,,and no LOSS of relative seniority,,, wow ,, cant wait to Buy Out another Airline,,,

buscador

We are One company now. You know like we were after the Morris Merger.....who was the weaker company there? How did that transition go for you?

bb

 

[buscador]

buscador

We are One company now. You know like we were after the Morris Merger.....who was the weaker company there? How did that transition go for you?

bb

They were stapled so how do you think it went for them,, Morris People got much worse deal,, they didnt take everything, the got nothing,ouch..they were actually happy and showed gratitude for having a job here... SWA should send Morris people all a check or a bonus because of what happened to them(oops did I mention that nasty word Fair,, SORRY that word or theory cant be used here,, my mistake,,


Fair-- without cheating or trying to achieve unjust advantage

I can think of a couple thousand people that may not know what Fair means , so I am jsut trying to help out

 

[buscador]

This has been a reoccurring statement coming from the AirTran side of this debate and it completely confuses the issue. The matter of our company finding your company desirable from an asset standpoint was between the two companies and their shareholders. The matter of integrating our work groups are between our work groups.. It's not even a company matter. It's for AMFA and IBT, TWU and IAM to hash out for the best interests of it's (incumbent) members.

It seems to me like the case being made by Airtran folks is that in exchange for your work groups receiving full seniority while coming onto OUR contracts, our company stands to gain all sorts of AirTran awesomeness by way of "experience of flying international" and things of that nature.. So again, that's great for the company and their share holders.. But what's the give and take within the confines of our work groups? Seems like it's all give on our end and all take on your end.

Stop the insanity, TAkers TAke,, you cant change that,,, Hey I asked my union rep where do I sign up for this program, take 2.5 years off my seniority and give me a %40 raise,, he hasnt gotten back to me,,

How dare you be so honest, just because you as an employee at the better airline have a deal that leaves you only one option,, thats clawing and figthing for your seniority,, fair ,, why shouldnt people who have never worn your uniform be given Everything you have and then some of your seniority,, next time you get change for a dollar, when instead of getting 4 quarters back, you recieve only a few pennies,, then you will understand fairness a little more,,until then lets all hold hands and sing around the Happy campfire,, dont forget to bring your Pom Poms

 

[wnbubbleboy]

They were stapled so how do you think it went for them,, Morris People got much worse deal,, they didnt take everything, the got nothing,ouch..they were actually happy and showed gratitude for having a job here... SWA should send Morris people all a check or a bonus because of what happened to them(oops did I mention that nasty word Fair,, SORRY that word or theory cant be used here,, my mistake,,


Fair-- without cheating or trying to achieve unjust advantage

I can think of a couple thousand people that may not know what Fair means , so I am jsut trying to help out

June Morris would not sell the company to Southwest unless her people got a "fair" shake.....so with that being said..They (the Morris folks) did get something....everyone hired form Morris got 01-01-94 company Seniority and some with that being their date of hire catagory senority as well. Would this be "fair" to any Southwest employee hired and who worked earlier months of 94'? The Merger of operations was in October 1994 by the way.

(Note to Morris People If I am wrong about something please correct me. I am going my recollection of the merger on the Southwest side of the fence)

My point was, in 10 or 15 years and a couple of contract cycles down the road, who will know where we are from; unless you make a point of it.