SW/Airtran Seniority

[pjirish317]

At the very worst, you're maintaining your respective seniority among your "integratees" from AirTran are you not? So would you take that, with a raise, and better job security or would you just rather go back to working for AirTran as it stood before the merger announcement? You know the answer

The AirTran guys have to understand something about this integration. Everything that we're talking about right now is just varying degrees of how much YOU WIN. Now you can win a pretty good amount and not make incumbent Southwest employees angry, or you can try to win it all and do it at the expense of the Southwest people. From Southwest employees' perspective, we stand to gain NOTHING besides a few potential bumps down the seniority list, WHEEE! As far as bad blood is concerned with work groups, how do you think you'll be received by your fellow Southwest employees when the dust settles and you just HAD to push for having the cake and eating it too at the detriment to your incumbent Southwest employee coworkers? When you could have just had the cake and everyone got to win a little? We'd all just be one big happy bunch.

I really am surprised how much the seniority issue is being pushed in this integration. When I first joined Southwest (after 3 years of applying and interviewing), I took a job that payed WAY less than what I was making before, had to work mandatory double shifts every single day in the winter, never got the days off I wanted, got the crappiest line/positions, and was pretty much a zombie for at least 2 years. But you know what, I was GLAD to do it because it was all building towards being a vested employee of Southwest. It took many years before I got into a comfortable groove. Very few of us are going to sit still for anything resembling 1 for 1 integration , just so you know. We wear our seniority like battle scars at Southwest.

Fan,

Do you think that no one else "wears their seniority like battle scars"? If the two unions seniority is DOH then why not 1 for 1 integration? Do you think the hard working employees of AirTran deserve less? Just asking?

 

[lineguy43]

At the very worst, you're maintaining your respective seniority among your "integratees" from AirTran are you not? So would you take that, with a raise, and better job security or would you just rather go back to working for AirTran as it stood before the merger announcement? You know the answer

The AirTran guys have to understand something about this integration. Everything that we're talking about right now is just varying degrees of how much YOU WIN. Now you can win a pretty good amount and not make incumbent Southwest employees angry, or you can try to win it all and do it at the expense of the Southwest people. From Southwest employees' perspective, we stand to gain NOTHING besides a few potential bumps down the seniority list, WHEEE! As far as bad blood is concerned with work groups, how do you think you'll be received by your fellow Southwest employees when the dust settles and you just HAD to push for having the cake and eating it too at the detriment to your incumbent Southwest employee coworkers? When you could have just had the cake and everyone got to win a little? We'd all just be one big happy bunch.

I really am surprised how much the seniority issue is being pushed in this integration. When I first joined Southwest (after 3 years of applying and interviewing), I took a job that payed WAY less than what I was making before, had to work mandatory double shifts every single day in the winter, never got the days off I wanted, got the crappiest line/positions, and was pretty much a zombie for at least 2 years. But you know what, I was GLAD to do it because it was all building towards being a vested employee of Southwest. It took many years before I got into a comfortable groove. Very few of us are going to sit still for anything resembling 1 for 1 integration , just so you know. We wear our seniority like battle scars at Southwest.

Look bro I know you work for SW but bottom line is in every other merger it is DOH for ground personal. Different story for pilots they have a lot of variables to their job. But everyone else has historically been DOH. I don't care if the trannys get a huge bump in pay it is and should be date of hire. Now you could try the staple and then you can have a war amongst yourselves but I don't think its worth it. The NW and RW merger in 1986 seniority wasn't the problem but the RW people were making WAY less then the NW people working side by side that didn't work out well either. We had DOH at NW when they merged with RW and it was not all that bad. You will all benefit from the merger more places to fly to and for the most part you will all stay where you are right now/

 

[QA4Jet-A]

I have to believe what LineGuy is saying. DOH is the only fair way to do this. Most WN people have wayyyy more time so the FL focals should just blend in where the DOH lines up. Most FL employees will be lower than your top tier and rightfully so. Just for a comic thought, what if it was the other way around, where FL bought WN? Would you be singing the same song? I doubt for a minute the FL people are making waves over this but just want to know where they stand. I understand the sacrifices you made to get and retain your job at WN but so has every FL employee... who has worked hard and made the Airline an attractive buy for WN! Just curious why you worry so much about what the FL people will gain. You already have your cake.... share the icing! LUV yer Brothers and Sisters!

 

[SharoninSAT]

I have to believe what LineGuy is saying. DOH is the only fair way to do this. Most WN people have wayyyy more time so the FL focals should just blend in where the DOH lines up. Most FL employees will be lower than your top tier and rightfully so. Just for a comic thought, what if it was the other way around, where FL bought WN? Would you be singing the same song? I doubt for a minute the FL people are making waves over this but just want to know where they stand. I understand the sacrifices you made to get and retain your job at WN but so has every FL employee... who has worked hard and made the Airline an attractive buy for WN! Just curious why you worry so much about what the FL people will gain. You already have your cake.... share the icing! LUV yer Brothers and Sisters!

Well stated QA... DOH is the closest to fair for everyone involved. (One LUV)

 

[BoeingBoy]

I've been away on vacation for 2.5 months (one of the benefits of retirement) but I thought that the pilot SLI was basically agreed to before I left. Not true?

Jim

 

[SharoninSAT]

I've been away on vacation for 2.5 months (one of the benefits of retirement) but I thought that the pilot SLI was basically agreed to before I left. Not true?

Jim

What we've heard recently is that SWAPA and ALPA are still working on the language
of that agreement and then it will require votes of approval from the Unions boards
and then the Membership before it can go into effect.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Thanks. Hope that everything works out - that federal law is lurking in the background...

Jim

 

[SharoninSAT]

Thanks. Hope that everything works out - that federal law is lurking in the background...

Jim

Thanks Jim

 

[grmach1]

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

The leadership of the pilots union at AirTran Airways voted against the seniority integration agreements in AirTran's merger with Southwest Airlines, sending the unions back to the negotiating table to try to reach a deal.



The leadership of Southwest's pilots union in late July unanimously approved the seniority deal to send to its members for a vote, but the master executive council of the Air Line Pilots Association at AirTran on Thursday voted against the integration agreements presented by their merger committee. Thus, the leadership is not sending them to their members for a vote and canceled road shows scheduled this week on the agreements. Seniority is a key issue for pilots and can affect their schedules, pay and career expectations.

"It appears ALPA decided to deny both pilot groups the right to vote and decide on their future by keeping it from their membership ratification effort," Southwest Airlines Pilots' Association spokesman Jacob North said.

That leaves the two pilots unions to go into mediation through Sept. 30. If a deal can't be reached through mediated talks, the unions would then go to arbitration, according to the process the two unions agreed

 

[SharoninSAT]

.
A disappointing result to a highly anticipated vote.
Hope the Pilot Groups can work it out without arbitration.

 

[jimntx]

A little inside gossip...

A little birdy just told me that G. Kelly told a WN pilot meeting within the past few days that the company would not waste time with mediation which was supposed to be the next step. (No doubt, he saw how "successful" Federally-sponsored mediation is working for companies like AMR and its unions. ) He wants to go straight to binding arbitration. Because of the AirTran MEC decision this week, ALL financial incentives offered to AirTran pilots to close this deal quickly are being taken off the table--i.e., if no solution in arbitration, AirTran will be operated as a separate subsidiary with their current wage rates. Mr. Kelly has used (in writing) the phrase, "if we merge the two airlines."

If not, the AirTran a/c will be returned to the lessor(s) as the leases expire. Concomitant furloughs may happen with each lease expiration. And, WN will begin flying WN a/c into/out of ATL in Feb. 2012.

(The little birdy is a friend who has been employed with WN for a number of years.)

 

[BoeingBoy]

Well, I'm a little surprised that the FL MEC voted the proposal down - ALPA's merger policy has the merger committee being completely independent. The MC's come up with a combined seniority list, regardless of which step in the process yields that list, and the list is then set in stone pending use after a combined contract is ratified. Of course, the big unknown to me is what the NMB would do if they got a request for a single carrier status ruling. Obviously a holding company can have two separate airline divisions, it a norm in every merger. But long term, at least since Lorenzo, I don't know of any carrier that has done it except for owned regional's.

I suppose I shouldn't be after the US mess but I figured no one else would be dumb enough to follow that example, especially the smaller group that has no chance of unseatins SWAPA in a representational election like the East US pilots did.

Technically, in my layman's opinion, Kelley can do that. I don't think the new law even mentions the word merger (although the A-M LPPs do) but rather "triggering event" that is a stock and/or asset transaction. But it does say "that results in combining the same craft/class employees." If I were him, though, I think I'd be careful what I threatened. Even a pretty small group of disgruntled employees can really throw a monkey wrench into an operation and I expect that the FL pilots would make sure that "AirTran, owned by Southwest" was in the flying publics mind. Seems like a shame to let a few months delay for the process to complete to mess up what could be a good merger.

Jim

 

[USFlyer]

He has a responsibility to SW employees before AirTran employees

Everyone is a SW employee now. AT is a wholly owned subsidiary.

 

[citrus jock]

Other than me not having a SW employee number, a SW seniority number, a SW employee ID badge, & not receiving SW pay, I guess you're right.

 

[swamt]

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

The leadership of the pilots union at AirTran Airways voted against the seniority integration agreements in AirTran's merger with Southwest Airlines, sending the unions back to the negotiating table to try to reach a deal.



The leadership of Southwest's pilots union in late July unanimously approved the seniority deal to send to its members for a vote, but the master executive council of the Air Line Pilots Association at AirTran on Thursday voted against the integration agreements presented by their merger committee. Thus, the leadership is not sending them to their members for a vote and canceled road shows scheduled this week on the agreements. Seniority is a key issue for pilots and can affect their schedules, pay and career expectations.

"It appears ALPA decided to deny both pilot groups the right to vote and decide on their future by keeping it from their membership ratification effort," Southwest Airlines Pilots' Association spokesman Jacob North said.

That leaves the two pilots unions to go into mediation through Sept. 30. If a deal can't be reached through mediated talks, the unions would then go to arbitration, according to the process the two unions agreed

G. Kelly has also stated this on his message on SWALIFE Mon morn. And yes all company provided premiums are off the table... "AIRTRAN MECHANICS" pay attention to what the teamsters can cause to happen to your group. SWA has told us that the company will help in any way to get the intregration done as quickly as possible. This includes all kinds of "FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE" as required. If Kelly sees any resistance as he has with the ALPA, then he will in fact remove all "FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE" from the table never to be seen again, AND he will push hard to go straight to binding arbritration. The AMT's at AirTran need to get rid of the teamsters so we can get to an agreement much faster... "FIRE THE TEAMSTERS"