SW/Airtran Seniority

[metopower]

Uh, this is the Southwest/Airtran forum...

I know the intent is to show the AT guys how bad an integration can be, and you've succeeded...

But please, can I suggest you take the rest of the TW/AA pissing match back over to AA where it can be promptly ignored?... 😉

Great point. Could not say it any better. My whole point is how unfair it is to NOT go all the way to arbitration. I hope the Airtran pilots took notice. NO need to further argue with people that justify screwing others.

 

[swamt]

Uh, this is the Southwest/Airtran forum...

I know the intent is to show the AT guys how bad an integration can be, and you've succeeded...

But please, can I suggest you take the rest of the TW/AA pissing match back over to AA where it can be promptly ignored?... 😉

- AGREE 100% AA and TWA get out!!!

 

[IORFA]

Great point. Could not say it any better. My whole point is how unfair it is to NOT go all the way to arbitration. I hope the Airtran pilots took notice. NO need to further argue with people that justify screwing others.

I am not trying to justify anything, just tying to get you to use facts and not propagate the internet with false statements. It is very easy to spread fear and lies, for some reason facts and truth are hard to come by on here. Back to the topic, going to arbitration is a toss up as well. Look at US Air. They went to arbitration and they are a complete mess. 5 years after the arbitrator made his ruling and still nothing. Just lawsuits, a new union and animosity, dare I say worse than AA ever was. Atleast no one talks about TWA anymore at work, only on here. US Air still doesn't have a single seniority list for the pilots or the f/a's. Still doesn't have a contract that covers both work groups for the pilots or f/a's and still doesn't have a single operating certificate. They are still 2 different companies with no end in sight to integrate them into one airline. Bottom line, there is no single sure fire way to make it work. There are too many examples to show differently. If one side feels that they were wronged too much, look out something worse than desired could be coming down the road. By the way, my friends paycheck still says America West. Makes me shake my head every time I think about it.

 

[BoeingBoy]

US Air still doesn't have a single seniority list for the pilots or the f/a's.

Correction: The FA's have a list, it just can't be used till there's a single contract. AFA policy is DOH, which the west fought initially at the AFA BOD. Once losing that battle, the DOH list was accepted by the west.

The FA contract delay has many fathers. The company insistence on cost neutral for 1.5 years, the "me too" clause in the east FA contract resulted in waiting for the pilots to settle and a difference of opinion between east and west FA's about what the single contract should contain. The east, coming off the results of two concessions, wanting more than the company is so far willing to spend, etc.

Jim

 

[IORFA]

If there was a single contract and thus a merged seniority list, without a pilot list and a single operating certificate, they still wouldn't be able to work both sides of US Air, correct? Without going through training, of course. If so, then it is still just a light at the end of the tunnel. Either way, it still isn't finished with nothing immanent and the whole thing is still a mess. I guess arbitration is really the way to go..............IF you want to stay separate that is.

 

[BoeingBoy]

A single certificate is required to intermix crews, and I would think that would apply to mechanics also. Contracts and seniority can be worked around, though not easily, so all three are normally needed to intermix. For other employee groups I would think training would be all that's needed to intermix operations, especially airport customer service and the like.

If any group wants to stay separate as long as possible, arbitration and the pace of contract talks are the only real means of doing that. To stay separate permanently requires the company's willingness to do that.

Note that for unionized groups, arbitration only comes in with either the union's merger policy (if the same union represents both sides) or the new law (if different unions represent the two sides). If one union represents both sides but doesn't use arbitration as a last resort in reaching a single seniority list, there will be no arbitration but those unions generally specify how the two groups are to be combined (AFA stipulates DOH, for example).

Jim

 

[IORFA]

That's what I thought. Thanks.