Strike ...... Whats The Point

[madders]

Cwa and AFA has okayed its members to strike if the judge ok's Usairways request to end union constracts.

What is expected to come from any strike..do the union expect the judge to change his mind and reverse his decision..I think not.
So what is the strike about ????
My suggestion to the unions is if you want to strike as a statement that you are against this proposal and strike for 24hrs that would be okay because everyone lose a days pay and everyone see your importance to the company and that you can shut things down but a indefinite strike would be meaningless because who you really hurt is all your co workers and yourself.

Another point ..if management is smart the lawyers for USairways will ask the judge for permission to get replacement workers within 24 hr if employees does not return to their jobs.
From the past I have noted that every concession reached by unions has been ratified by a majority which is to say if given the choice between job and no job the majority will choose a job and only the hard a$$ will stay home.

And remember if the judge oks U to fire any employee who strike because its illegal, to get your job back you will have to find a federal judge to say the BK judge was wrong and you were right otherwise you "strike" would be in vain..

And if the company shuts down and liquidates then there will be a lot of pi$$ed of employees who is not protected by union not to mention the people that Usairways owe money to who is saying this talk of strike is bs....
I bet there could very well be a class action lawsuit against AFA and CWA for authorizing the demise of Usairways.


Anywho the main point is Choose your battles well ...this is not worth fighting over
if you think you can get paid more then leave and find another job.
For me I want the company to stay together so I can go see the world cup next year in germany.

Look to the future!!!

 

[BostonTerrier]

You're right. That settles it. Everyone work more for less so madders can go to the World Cup.

Sounds like a plan to me.

 

[nycbusdriver]

USAirways management's incredible and unparalleled greed, arrogance and stupidity got us into this mess. The employees (except for 58% of the bedwetter pilots) have had just about enough. Along with the judge, they are about to make these jobs near worthless. But the jobs are OURS, to do with as we see fit. If the unions decide to make a statement, then SO BE IT. Don't tell us to just quit and go elsewhere. Employees dribbling out the door a few at a time sends a weak message. We want to make our answer LOUD, CLEAR, and EN MASSE to the jerks in Crystal City and Alabama.

There will be NO replacement workers in 24 hours. Those pre-9/11, pre-TSA days are gone. It would take WEEKS to hire brand new people and get them through the mandatory security clearances.

 

[KCFlyer]

Another point ..if management is smart the lawyers for USairways will ask the judge for permission to get replacement workers within 24 hr if employees does not return to their jobs.

How many folks do you think they'll get offering little more than minimum wage??

From the past I have noted that every concession reached by unions has been ratified by a majority which is to say if given the choice between job and no job the majority will choose a job and only the hard a$$ will stay home.

When the company's gone to the well twice and you gave in, only to see them squander the "savings", did you ever stop to think that at some point people will say "enough is enough"?

And remember if the judge oks U to fire any employee who strike because its illegal, to get your job back you will have to find a federal judge to say the BK judge was wrong and you were right otherwise you "strike" would be in vain..

The costs to train new employees would kill the company. At least those replacement workers wouldn't have any pension funds at stake.

And if the company shuts down and liquidates then there will be a lot of pi$$ed of employees who is not protected by union not to mention the people that Usairways owe money to who is saying this talk of strike is bs....

The company has done little to show the workers...union or nonunion...that a third or fourth round of cuts will get them to a level to become profitable. I think those potentially pi$$ed off employees see that.

I bet there could very well be a class action lawsuit against AFA and CWA for authorizing the demise of Usairways.

If that happens, I'll betcha a class action against management for the very same reason would be in order. And...IMHO, the countersuit would have more merit.

For me I want the company to stay together so I can go see the world cup next year in germany.

What's your position in the company....or are you someone looking for a free divident miles trip to Germany to see the world cup?

 

[Walmartgreeter]

[ Look to the future!!!

[post="205355"][/post]​

[/quote]

Uhhh. Let me guess, you mental midget...they DON"T HAVE A FUTURE. The U pilots were weak enough to give up BILLIONS to save the company..for nothing. Now this idiocy has trickeled down to the F/As, Agents, and Mechanics. Thank goodness they have a CLUE. Greeter.

 

[madders]

by the way people i am joking about the world cup bit.....
gee whiz

 

[BoeingBoy]

by the way people i am joking about the world cup bit.....
gee whiz

[post="205361"][/post]​

Well shucks. I was going to offer to buy you a ticket if you could prove you didn't cross a picket line. That would have been the best deal of all - free transportation and the time off to go.....

Jim

 

[mrfish3726]

Madders says, "What is expected to come from any strike?" Self Respect for one thing, telling the company that your tired of getting F'D everytime they make a bad business decision for another. Sounds like Madder is worried that he might not have a job, he must be in the pilots ranks. They will still be knocking down a 6 figure salary, while the lower tier workers are the ones that will be hardly able to live off whats left of their pay check. Say I am a CWA making $21 bucks an hour then find myself faced with the decision to stay for $13 or get a little payback and make everyone suffer along with ME. You know the old saying, "Misery Loves Company!!!"

"Another point ..if management is smart the lawyers for USairways will ask the judge for permission to get replacement workers within 24 hr if employees does not return to their jobs." Madder I don't think the company needs to get court permission to get replacement workers. Whats a SCAB for anyway, sounds like you'd walk over the picket line to keep a job. If the judge rules to abrogate contracts USAIR can say OK CWA $7 an hour you don't like that then we'll find a replacement. Mechanics $15 an hour you don't like it we'll find replacements. AFA 15K a year you don't like it we'll find replacements. You won't have a contract so the company can ask you to work for anything they want. Hence self help, there is no way that USAIR could replace striking workers in a timely manner to keep them from liquidation. Don't you remember anything from the past, can you say Frank Lorenzo, Eastern Air Lines, Continental Air Lines, ECT. ECT.

"And remember if the judge oks U to fire any employee who strike because its illegal, " Who to say it is illegal to walk off the job once your contract has been abrogated by the judge. Again USAIR wouldn't have to ask the judge to fire people if they strike you don't show up for work we'll replace you period. They'll have buses bringing the scabs. I am sure you'll be on one of those buses. Dude, if the contracts get whacked by the judge nobody not the president, congress, NMB, or any fricking judge alive can make you work without a contract if your paying union dues.

"And if the company shuts down and liquidates then there will be a lot of pi$$ed of employees who is not protected by union." Now you sound like your in the management ranks. If you are there is nothing to stop you from coming to work an fill in for the CWA, IAM, or the AFA. So why would you get pissed off, management can run that place can't they???

"For me I want the company to stay together so I can go see the world cup next year in germany." So now WE know the real motivation behid your post Madder. Damn dude, don't be a flake pay for a full far ticket! God some of you Non REVS are cheap a$$es. If I want a nice trip I don't depend on getting there as a NON REV!

 

[Dizel8]

This seems like a game of Mexican standoff to me.

The AFA, as a union, is posturing, threatening the company with a strike, in the hopes that the company will relent and negotiate in good faith.

The company is hell bent on getting the concessions, hoping that is the magic bullet, which it may be, for the company that is, not the employees, at least not paywise.

If there is a strike, it will more than likely be the end of U. Unless it is settled very quickly.

If the company truly believes, that these cuts are necessary, then they must stay the course, for the company to be an ongoing concern. They have no other choice.

The F/A's at U must decide if this is what they want, sure it proves they have had enough, but it probably also means the end of employment and a paycheck.

Worse yet, for the AFA, this is a fight for relevance. If the company succeeds in these cuts, despite the call for a strike, then the AFA becomes useless and may as well be decertified, since they become nothing more than a toothless tiger.

So, the question is, who will blink first?

(FWIW, I sincerely hope the F/A's at U wins this one)

 

[CLT-Douglas]

I don't quite understand a strike either.

First of all, from a passengers perspective outside the industry all they will see is day 1 a strike, and day 2 liquidation. Management will put the spin on it that the strike caused the liquidation. That whole story will make the headlines in CLT, PIT, PHL, and everywhere else it's page 2 in the business section. The rest of the World will say US Who?

Secondly, if I were an employee, which I am not, I wouldn't want to give management that easy excuse as to why the airline finally collapsed. Taking a stand now will really only send your CEO back into retirement and onto the golf course. Investors will loose millions, but they pretty much already have anyway after the second chapter 11 filing in September. The rest that want to work in upper management will either retire early, or will find jobs elsewhere easily. What's left is the hard working employees in a industry that is already suffering from major problems of their own. So that will leave most with a slim chance of even getting a job in the industry that you were trained at, and the rest trying to find a new career, learn it and still find a way to pay the bills.

The bottom line is striking at this moment won't effect anyone but the employees in the long run so what's the point? Self Respect? Thats nice, but how much does that pay?

 

[deano]

I don't quite understand a strike either.

First of all, from a passengers perspective outside the industry all they will see is day 1 a strike, and day 2 liquidation. Management will put the spin on it that the strike caused the liquidation. That whole story will make the headlines in CLT, PIT, PHL, and everywhere else it's page 2 in the business section. The rest of the World will say US Who?

Secondly, if I were an employee, which I am not, I wouldn't want to give management that easy excuse as to why the airline finally collapsed. Taking a stand now will really only send your CEO back into retirement and onto the golf course. Investors will loose millions, but they pretty much already have anyway after the second chapter 11 filing in September. The rest that want to work in upper management will either retire early, or will find jobs elsewhere easily. What's left is the hard working employees in a industry that is already suffering from major problems of their own. So that will leave most with a slim chance of even getting a job in the industry that you were trained at, and the rest trying to find a new career, learn it and still find a way to pay the bills.

The bottom line is striking at this moment won't effect anyone but the employees in the long run so what's the point? Self Respect? Thats nice, but how much does that pay?

[post="205392"][/post]​

You're forget something, and you said it yourself, you are NOT an employee and therefore have NO idea of the mind-set, they WILL strike and if I were still there I would be right with them....

 

[BoeingBoy]

Bob,

I think what you're missing (and naturally so) is the "inside" perspective of many employees.

Many current and retired employees filed objections to the abrogation of contracts, termination of pensions, and changes to retiree health benefits. I found one particularly interesting because it included copies of the concession pleas from various CEO's going back to Schofield in 1991.

Reading through them all at once, one thing stood out starkly. If you ignored the dates and CEO names, they all said basically the same thing.

It's regrettable to have to ask for concessions but....

There's no other way....

The landscape has changed and we must adapt....

We must have competitive costs to survive....

And my personal favorite:

If we just work together we can prosper and grow....

Thirteen years of promises of great things if only we employees will endure the sacrifice. Thirteen years of sacrifice. And for what?

Jim

 

[Jennyann]

I think a strike is not the best move because it will not preserve jobs or wages.

I have been pondering what I would do as a customer if the airline tried to fly with replacement workers, or operate on a limited schedule with those who crossed the lines which I predict will be in the 2/3rds range of all the bargaining units.

I have NEVER EVER Crossed a picket line. Thinking I would not cross unless I had to. Meaning the tickets my company already paid for. Otherwise I'd most likely just book away.

The prudent path is a negotiated settlement. The ONLY Valid reason I can see for not negotiating a settlement would lie with your national unions not wanting to set a precedent of a severely concessionary contract with the smallest member of the big six. Which means your unions will throw US workers under the bus in order to preserve wages at larger carriers. Have you looked at your dues deduction lately?

[post="205397"][/post]​

But Bob...How can you negotiate a settlement when the other party isint willing to negotiate???????????

 

[delldude]

What is expected to come from any strike..do the union expect the judge to change his mind and reverse his decision..I think not.
So what is the strike about ????

expect it to be a labor statement...if its successful of telling america's managemnet cronies we will no longer tolerate your usage of the courts to abrogate contracts to improve your profits without some form of inclusion for our sacrifice....
this applies to all labor contractual exampes...not just Uair............. :down:

 

[UAL_TECH]

expect it to be a labor statement...if its successful of telling america's managemnet cronies we will no longer tolerate your usage of the courts to abrogate contracts to improve your profits without some form of inclusion for our sacrifice....
this applies to all labor contractual exampes...not just Uair............. :down:

[post="205403"][/post]​

Quite right!!!
Management style between airlines seems to be transparent, and the use of the BK laws to rape and pillage 'Union Employees' is abhorrent.

FYI,
UAL AMFA Day Two Negotiation Notes (In PDF)

Take Care,
UAL_TECH