Somebody, please....

[W:EXCH:INVOL]

...answer this:
On Sept 17, Dave Siegel addressed the International Aviation Club of Washington and said, ...and more than half of USAirway''s cash flow over the next 7 years will go toward funding employee pensions.
On Dec 27, Chip Munn said, USAirways reached agreement with the IAM and AFA and the union leadership recommended the TA''s be ratified the company would not change their pension plan, which account for about 24 percent of the company''s obligation. However, because the pilot pension plan is about 70 percent of the corporate obligation, the company and ALPA agreed to chage the multiplier from 2.4 percent to 1.8 percent and make some other changes.
70 percent of 50 percent equals 35 percent, no? Is it a fair assumption then, that the company''s obligation to the ALPA pension is 35 percent of the total cash flow per year? Before you hammer away, I''m not trying to get anyone''s panties in a bunch. I just have a hard time believing that this accounts for more than a third of U cash flow per year.
INVOL

 

[TicketMaker]

Well Chip ???

 

[jetsandprops]

It is stated as a percent of free cash flow - i.e. after all is take care other than the pension how much cash is left and how much of that needs to be spent for the pension.

 

[W:EXCH:INVOL]

I would have thought that after 250+ views and almost a whole day, someone (there's a lot of bright people here) would offer an answer.

INVOL

 

[W:EXCH:INVOL]

[blockquote]
----------------
On 1/11/2003 8:13:09 PM TicketMaker wrote:

Well Chip ???
----------------
[/blockquote]
I realize I didn't put Chip's name in the subject title, but I notice you have posted since this thread was started and have neglected to add input. Would you give me your thoughts on this, please.

INVOL

 

[Atlantic]

I'm not speaking for Chip.
However, as a pilot, I believe Dave said "the pilots are paying for it". The pilots have given back hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars per year for the next eight years. That does not take into acount c/o's bumped back to f/o's, more millions in lost w/2's. Nor does it take into accout our scope, in other words, subing our flying jobs to the commuters. And that cost us pilot jobs. With this new t/a, we have taken and additional 8% reduction in pay, new work rules that will mean even more pilot lay offs. In the next 12 to 16 months, if this company can get it's act together, allmost 50% of the flying will be done by non Us pilots as I see it.
Now tell me, what craft has taken a bigger hit than us?
We are paying our own freight, and carrying a bit more.

 

[AM49AAA]

Funny thing is in the end their Pension will be gone. The company will shrug and say they tried and use the recent legilative failure as their making the attempt to save it. They will have the PBGC distress terminate it and most pilots will only get 25% of their benifit. They will get out from under the liability and the US taxpayer will pick up the tab. Instead of 7% profits the company will be bringing in better than 10% and U won't need the ATSB laon .

 

[TicketMaker]

Well I'm just a little surpassed that captain chip didn't jump in with both boots on fire! It has been said that the pilot group were going to see to this issue themselves, how to pay for their pension. after a thousand post's we all know how prolific he can be. My pension went away back in '92, and my time in an out-station has been marked. I't's about time to start commuting to HUB.

 

[Atlantic]

Ticket,
All the crafts got wacked. After 24 years, I'm commuting as well.
With respect.

 

[A320 Driver]

[blockquote]
----------------
On 1/12/2003 7:33:12 PM AM49AAA wrote:

Funny thing is in the end their Pension will be gone. [/blockquote]


I'm doubled over with laughter.

A320 Driver

 

[Atlantic]

Well you should take heat for driving one of those french dude things.
LOL!
Thanks for the word. I don't think Dave has it in for anyone. But this co. has to make a profit.......
That's his job. And he will do his job untill one of two things happen. And we all know what those two are.
We're not out of the race yet.















t

 

[AM49AAA]

I hope I'm wrong but it seems to be set up to neatly. The company has their out by saying they tried to broker a settlement with the PBGC and the additional pilot concessions have been in the bag for weeks now.

 

[A320 Driver]

A buddy of mine talked to Dave in the CLT crew room last week. He's a pretty good judge of character and he really believes that Dave does not want to terminate the plan unless the PBGC and our so-called friends in the government back us into a corner. Now you can take this any way you like but my friend told me that Dave was firm on not approaching the unions for any more concessions to get us out of BK. Either we get it done with whats been done or it's over. He appreciated Dave's candor and willingness to discuss some very difficult issues.

A320 Driver

ps Please don't shoot the messenger. I'm taking enough heat on the boards already!

 

[chipmunn]

US Airways employed about 4,700 pilots on August 8, 2002 when the ALPA restructuring agreement was ratified.

The pilot group represents 10 percent of the employees, is 30 percent of the total labor expense, and has provided 60 percent of the concessions totaling $566 million per year.

The 30,000 non-pilot employees have provided $474 million in concessions or $92 million per year less than the pilots.

The average annual pilot concession is an incredible $120,000 per year. How much is enough? Should a pilot give $130,000, $140,000, $150,000 or more per year?

In addition, ALPA has agreed to reduce its pension multiplier from 2.4 to 1.8 percent that will provide a 25 percent hit.

ALPA and the Company are seeking legislative relief to permit the PBGC to approve retirement fund restoration. If a legislative solution cannot be obtained with the federal government, there is reason to believe US Airways and ALPA will find mutually acceptable "creative solutions" to this problem, so the airline can successfully restructure and emerge from bankruptcy.

Chip

 

[AM49AAA]

[blockquote]
----------------
A buddy of mine talked to Dave in the CLT crew room last week. He's a pretty good judge of character and he really believes that Dave does not want to terminate the plan unless the PBGC and our so-called friends in the government back us into a corner. Now you can take this any way you like but my friend told me that Dave was firm on not approaching the unions for any more concessions to get us out of BK. Either we get it done with whats been done or it's over. He appreciated Dave's candor and willingness to discuss some very difficult issues.

A320 Driver

ps Please don't shoot the messenger. I'm taking enough heat on the boards already!




----------------
[/blockquote]


I don't discount that the company tried to use congressional Lobbying to put forth the recently negotiated Pension modification to the PBGC. I don't think their was decption on their part. However, that attempt appears to have failed and unfortuantely distress termination would financially benifit the company. It is doubtful they will fight with the same heart and conviction going forward to save it that U pilots will. They already have additional ALPA concessions and it will be easy to lay the blame at the feet of the goverment if legislation stalls in congress.