Financial Analysis

[Biffeman]

Willnotworkforfree, intelligent post, I hope you dont work on the airplanes that people fly on.

 

[Biffeman]

Willnotworkforfree, intelligent post, I hope you dont work on the airplanes that people fly on.

 

[Biffeman]

Bob, have you not read anything? The company wants virtually all our jobs in the maintenance department, only a fool would vote to lose all the work, lose the work then no job, no paycheck.[BR][BR]Like I said, Pan Am, Eastern and TWA are fine examples of why not to give anymore. I know I will not!

 

[Biffeman]

Bob, have you not read anything? The company wants virtually all our jobs in the maintenance department, only a fool would vote to lose all the work, lose the work then no job, no paycheck.[BR][BR]Like I said, Pan Am, Eastern and TWA are fine examples of why not to give anymore. I know I will not!

 

[chipmunn]

As I have said, it's not the company who can terminate our pensions, it's the PBGC. But, with the PBGC a member of the creditors committee and US Airways the debtor-in-possession, you can bet the company will have a say in the matter.[BR][BR]Regardless of pension funding, which is based on the December 31, 2001 market value, the PBGC has the legal right to "distress terminate" the fund(s) when a company is in bankruptcy and meets the termination "tests".[BR][BR]If a union fails to participate in the latest round of concessions, the company has the tools in place to extract more, which from a corporate balance sheet perspective would increase the "bottom line".[BR][BR]ALPA has taken steps to protect its membership and the company, just like I would expect from every other union. [BR][BR]Today's financial crisis is sad, but true.[BR][BR]Chip

 

[chipmunn]

As I have said, it's not the company who can terminate our pensions, it's the PBGC. But, with the PBGC a member of the creditors committee and US Airways the debtor-in-possession, you can bet the company will have a say in the matter.[BR][BR]Regardless of pension funding, which is based on the December 31, 2001 market value, the PBGC has the legal right to "distress terminate" the fund(s) when a company is in bankruptcy and meets the termination "tests".[BR][BR]If a union fails to participate in the latest round of concessions, the company has the tools in place to extract more, which from a corporate balance sheet perspective would increase the "bottom line".[BR][BR]ALPA has taken steps to protect its membership and the company, just like I would expect from every other union. [BR][BR]Today's financial crisis is sad, but true.[BR][BR]Chip

 

[chipmunn]

Biff:[BR][BR]I appreciate you doing some research from the PBGC website, but you left out some important information. I agree if a plan is terminated, effected employees would be eligible for PBGC benefits; however, there would be no further accrual. Ask some CWA represented members about this aspect of the program.[BR][BR]Nonetheless, you neglected to post some important information under 4041.3 of the PBGC regulations, "Requirements for a standard termination or a distress termination of a retirment plan."[BR][BR]Specifically, the PBGC regulation says, under S.4013 © [BR][BR]© Requirements for a distress termination. A plan may be terminated in a distress termination if: [BR][BR](1) The plan administrator issues a notice of intent to terminate to each affected party in accordance with § 4041.41 at least 60 days and not more than 90 days before the proposed termination date; [BR][BR](2) The plan administrator (in our case US Airways) files a distress termination notice with the PBGC in accordance with § 4041.43 no later than 120 days after the proposed termination date or, if applicable, no later than the due date established in an extension notice issued under § 4041.8; and [BR][BR](3) The PBGC determines that each contributing sponsor and each member of its controlled group satisfy one of the distress criteria set forth in paragraph (e) of this section.[BR][BR]Distress criteria. In a distress termination, each contributing sponsor and each member of its controlled group shall satisfy at least one (but not necessarily the same one) of the following criteria in order for a distress termination to occur:[BR][BR](2) Reorganization. This criterion is met if-- [BR][BR](i) As of the proposed termination date, a person [STRONG]has filed or had filed against it a petition seeking reorganization in a case under title 11[/STRONG], United States Code, or under a similar law of a state or a political subdivision of a state, or a case described in paragraph (e)(1) of this section has been converted to such a case; [BR][BR](ii) [STRONG]As of the proposed termination date, the case has not been dismissed[/STRONG]; [BR][BR](iii) [STRONG]The person notifies the PBGC of any request to the bankruptcy court (or other appropriate court in a case under such similar law of a state or a political subdivision of a state) for approval of the plan termination by concurrently filing with the PBGC a copy of the motion requesting court approval, including any documents submitted in support of the request; and [/STRONG][BR][BR](iv) [STRONG]The bankruptcy court or other appropriate court determines that, unless the plan is terminated, such person will be unable to pay all its debts pursuant to a plan of reorganization and will be unable to continue in business outside the reorganization process and approves the plan termination. [/STRONG][BR][BR][STRONG](3) Inability to continue in business. [/STRONG]This criterion is met if a person demonstrates to the satisfaction of the PBGC that, unless a distress termination occurs, the person will be unable to pay its debts when due and to continue in business. [BR][BR][STRONG](4) Unreasonably burdensome pension costs. [/STRONG]This criterion is met if a person demonstrates to the satisfaction of the PBGC that the person's costs of providing pension coverage have become unreasonably burdensome solely as a result of declining covered employment under all single-employer plans for which that person is a contributing sponsor.[BR][BR]Biff, US Airways has substantial cash funding requirements related to its employee defined benefit pension plans. Based on current forecasts, US Airways will be required to contribute to its retirement plans approximately $3.1 billion for the years 2003 through 2009, including $52 million in 2003 and $900 million to $1.0 billion in 2004.[BR][BR]The company [STRONG]meets all four [/STRONG]criteria per the PBGC's website to seek a "distress termination" of pension plans for any employee groups who do not provide concessionaire accords per the guidelines above. In fact, it appears the airline meets all of the four PBGC "tests" for a distressed termination.[BR][BR]For more information on this issue, click onto [A href="http://www.pbgc.gov/laws/lawsregs/code/CFR4041.HTM"]http://www.pbgc.gov/laws/lawsregs/code/CFR4041.HTM[/A][BR][BR]Regardless, as if said before if all non-pilot unions resist concessions the company has the option to demonstrate to the satisfaction of the PBGC the [STRONG]"inability to continue in business" or "ureasonably burdensome pension costs" [/STRONG]and if they do, your pension can be terminated.[BR][BR]As I said before, ALPA will protect its protion of its pension and it's up to the other unions to decide whether or not they want to do the same. Meanwhile, if all non-pilot defined benefit plan unions do not reach concessionaire accords and the company seeks to terminate their pensions, the airline will save about $138 million per year projected contributions (which is about $39 million greater than the proposed productivity and benefit cuts).[BR][BR]Biff, it appears the employees are caught in a "catch 22" and either they provide the airline with the requested savings through W-2 (if desired), productivity, benefit, and/or retirement savings, or the airline can seek to "distress terminate" your pension.[BR][BR]Finally, reliable sources inside the company have said the PBGC is demanding employees share in the burden and provide more cuts or the pension plans could be terminated.[BR][BR]Chip [BR][BR]

 

[chipmunn]

Biff:[BR][BR]I appreciate you doing some research from the PBGC website, but you left out some important information. I agree if a plan is terminated, effected employees would be eligible for PBGC benefits; however, there would be no further accrual. Ask some CWA represented members about this aspect of the program.[BR][BR]Nonetheless, you neglected to post some important information under 4041.3 of the PBGC regulations, "Requirements for a standard termination or a distress termination of a retirment plan."[BR][BR]Specifically, the PBGC regulation says, under S.4013 © [BR][BR]© Requirements for a distress termination. A plan may be terminated in a distress termination if: [BR][BR](1) The plan administrator issues a notice of intent to terminate to each affected party in accordance with § 4041.41 at least 60 days and not more than 90 days before the proposed termination date; [BR][BR](2) The plan administrator (in our case US Airways) files a distress termination notice with the PBGC in accordance with § 4041.43 no later than 120 days after the proposed termination date or, if applicable, no later than the due date established in an extension notice issued under § 4041.8; and [BR][BR](3) The PBGC determines that each contributing sponsor and each member of its controlled group satisfy one of the distress criteria set forth in paragraph (e) of this section.[BR][BR]Distress criteria. In a distress termination, each contributing sponsor and each member of its controlled group shall satisfy at least one (but not necessarily the same one) of the following criteria in order for a distress termination to occur:[BR][BR](2) Reorganization. This criterion is met if-- [BR][BR](i) As of the proposed termination date, a person [STRONG]has filed or had filed against it a petition seeking reorganization in a case under title 11[/STRONG], United States Code, or under a similar law of a state or a political subdivision of a state, or a case described in paragraph (e)(1) of this section has been converted to such a case; [BR][BR](ii) [STRONG]As of the proposed termination date, the case has not been dismissed[/STRONG]; [BR][BR](iii) [STRONG]The person notifies the PBGC of any request to the bankruptcy court (or other appropriate court in a case under such similar law of a state or a political subdivision of a state) for approval of the plan termination by concurrently filing with the PBGC a copy of the motion requesting court approval, including any documents submitted in support of the request; and [/STRONG][BR][BR](iv) [STRONG]The bankruptcy court or other appropriate court determines that, unless the plan is terminated, such person will be unable to pay all its debts pursuant to a plan of reorganization and will be unable to continue in business outside the reorganization process and approves the plan termination. [/STRONG][BR][BR][STRONG](3) Inability to continue in business. [/STRONG]This criterion is met if a person demonstrates to the satisfaction of the PBGC that, unless a distress termination occurs, the person will be unable to pay its debts when due and to continue in business. [BR][BR][STRONG](4) Unreasonably burdensome pension costs. [/STRONG]This criterion is met if a person demonstrates to the satisfaction of the PBGC that the person's costs of providing pension coverage have become unreasonably burdensome solely as a result of declining covered employment under all single-employer plans for which that person is a contributing sponsor.[BR][BR]Biff, US Airways has substantial cash funding requirements related to its employee defined benefit pension plans. Based on current forecasts, US Airways will be required to contribute to its retirement plans approximately $3.1 billion for the years 2003 through 2009, including $52 million in 2003 and $900 million to $1.0 billion in 2004.[BR][BR]The company [STRONG]meets all four [/STRONG]criteria per the PBGC's website to seek a "distress termination" of pension plans for any employee groups who do not provide concessionaire accords per the guidelines above. In fact, it appears the airline meets all of the four PBGC "tests" for a distressed termination.[BR][BR]For more information on this issue, click onto [A href="http://www.pbgc.gov/laws/lawsregs/code/CFR4041.HTM"]http://www.pbgc.gov/laws/lawsregs/code/CFR4041.HTM[/A][BR][BR]Regardless, as if said before if all non-pilot unions resist concessions the company has the option to demonstrate to the satisfaction of the PBGC the [STRONG]"inability to continue in business" or "ureasonably burdensome pension costs" [/STRONG]and if they do, your pension can be terminated.[BR][BR]As I said before, ALPA will protect its protion of its pension and it's up to the other unions to decide whether or not they want to do the same. Meanwhile, if all non-pilot defined benefit plan unions do not reach concessionaire accords and the company seeks to terminate their pensions, the airline will save about $138 million per year projected contributions (which is about $39 million greater than the proposed productivity and benefit cuts).[BR][BR]Biff, it appears the employees are caught in a "catch 22" and either they provide the airline with the requested savings through W-2 (if desired), productivity, benefit, and/or retirement savings, or the airline can seek to "distress terminate" your pension.[BR][BR]Finally, reliable sources inside the company have said the PBGC is demanding employees share in the burden and provide more cuts or the pension plans could be terminated.[BR][BR]Chip [BR][BR]

 

[Biffeman]

Chip Chip Chip,[BR][BR]The PBGC presented an overview in August at the Chairmans Conference in CLT last August, I am asking you to post facts and not your opinion.[BR][BR]One post you say the company is going to terminate the pensions and now you just said the PBGC will terminate them and just because a company is bk does not mean it meets the criteria for a distress termination, the plan.[BR][BR] [BR][BR][EM][FONT face=Helvetica color=#000080]Q. [/FONT][FONT face=Helvetica]Why do pension plans end? [/FONT][/EM][BR][BR][EM][FONT face=Helvetica color=#000080]A.[/FONT][FONT color=#000080] [/FONT]Pension plans usually end for one of three reasons: (1) the employer is having financial problems and can no longer support the plan; (2) the plan has enough money to pay all promised benefits and the employer wants to end the pension plan; or (3) the plan does not have enough funds to pay participants and PBGC decides that it should be ended in order to protect the interests of participants or the PBGC insurance program. [/EM][BR][BR][EM][FONT face=Helvetica color=#000080]Q. [/FONT][FONT face=Helvetica]How do pension plans end? [/FONT][/EM][BR][BR][EM][FONT face=Helvetica color=#000080]A.[/FONT][FONT color=#000080] [/FONT]Employers can end (terminate) pension plans in one of two ways. [BR][BR]In a standard termination, an employer ends a fully funded plan after showing PBGC that there is enough money to pay all benefits. The plan will provide the benefits owed either by purchasing an annuity from an insurance company which will provide periodic payments for life or, if your plan allows, all at once in a lump-sum. Your plan administrator must tell you what insurance company or companies your plan is considering as a possible annuity provider before making a final selection. PBGC's guarantee ends when the employer purchases the annuities or otherwise pays you the value of your pension. [BR][BR]In a distress termination, an employer ends a plan that does not have enough money to pay all benefits owed. To do so, however, the employer must prove to PBGC that the business is financially unable to support the plan. PBGC takes over the plan as trustee and uses its own assets and any remaining assets in the plan to make sure that current and future retirees receive their pension benefits, within the legal limits. [BR][BR]Under certain conditions, PBGC may terminate a pension plan, on its own initiative. PBGC can take such action if, for example, a plan does not have sufficient assets to pay benefits currently due. [/EM][BR][BR][EM][FONT face=Helvetica color=#000080]Q. [/FONT][FONT face=Helvetica]How will I know if my pension plan is ending? [/FONT][/EM][BR][BR][EM][FONT face=Helvetica color=#000080]A. [/FONT]If your employer wants to end the plan, your plan administrator must notify you in writing that your plan is ending at least 60 days before the "termination" date. This notice is called the Notice of Intent to Terminate. If PBGC is terminating the plan, we notify the plan administrator and often publish a notice about our action in local and national newspapers. [/EM][BR][BR][EM][FONT face=Helvetica color=#000080]Q. [/FONT][FONT face=Helvetica]What other information should I receive? [/FONT][/EM][BR][BR][EM][FONT face=Helvetica color=#000080]A.[/FONT][FONT color=#000080] [/FONT]In a standard termination, you should receive a second letter, called the Notice of Plan Benefits, describing the benefits you will receive. [BR][BR]In a distress termination, the plan administrator will send PBGC information about your benefits. We will figure the amount of your benefit that is guaranteed and inform you of it in writing. [/EM][BR][BR][EM][FONT face=Helvetica color=#000080]Q. [/FONT][FONT face=Helvetica]Can I earn additional benefits after my plan ends? [/FONT][/EM][BR][BR][EM][FONT face=Helvetica color=#000080]A.[/FONT][FONT color=#000080] [/FONT]No. After the plan ends, you cannot earn additional benefits. [/EM][BR][BR][EM][FONT face=Helvetica color=#000080]Q. [/FONT][FONT face=Helvetica]What happens when PBGC takes over my plan? [/FONT][/EM][BR][BR][EM][FONT face=Helvetica color=#000080]A. [/FONT]PBGC reviews your plan's records to determine what benefits each person will receive. [BR][BR][FONT face=ZapfDingbats color=#000080]l[/FONT][FONT color=#000080] [/FONT]If you are already retired and receiving benefits, we will continue paying you without interruption during our review. These payments will be an estimate of the benefits that PBGC can pay under the insurance program, and they may be less than you were receiving from your plan. [BR][BR][FONT face=ZapfDingbats color=#000080]l[/FONT][FONT color=#000080] [/FONT]If you have not yet retired, we will pay you an estimated benefit when you become eligible. [BR][BR]Once we complete our review, we will tell you in writing what your pension amount will be and what rights you have to appeal our decision. [BR][BR]The pension benefit PBGC pays depends on (1) provisions of your plan, (2) legal limits, (3) the form of your benefit, (4) your age, and (5) amounts PBGC recovers from employers for plan underfunding. [BR][BR]To ensure PBGC has the proper information for all participants, we will contact you periodically to request any changes, such as your new address if you have moved. [/EM][BR][BR][EM][FONT face=Helvetica color=#000080]Q. [/FONT][FONT face=Helvetica]What happens if PBGC's estimate is too high or too low? [/FONT][/EM][BR][BR][EM][FONT face=Helvetica color=#000080]A. [/FONT]If PBGC underpaid your benefit, we will make it up in a single payment with interest when we have completed our calculations. If we overpaid you, we will reduce future payments until the overpayment has been repaid. The reduction is no more than 10 percent of each payment. If both overpayments and underpayments were made, we will calculate the net overpayment or underpayment. [/EM][BR][BR][EM][FONT face=Helvetica color=#000080]Q. [/FONT][FONT face=Helvetica]What is the maximum amount that PBGC can guarantee? [/FONT][/EM][BR][BR][EM][FONT face=Helvetica color=#000080]A.[/FONT][FONT color=#000080] [/FONT]PBGC's maximum benefit guarantee is set each year under provisions of ERISA. For pension plans ending in 2002, for example, the maximum guaranteed amount is $3,579.55 per month ($42,954.60 per year) for a worker who retires at age 65. This guarantee is lower if you begin receiving payments before age 65 or if your pension includes benefits for a survivor or other beneficiary. The table at the end of this booklet shows PBGC's maximum guarantee for retirement at various ages. [/EM][BR][BR][EM][FONT face=Helvetica color=#000080]Q. [/FONT][FONT face=Helvetica]What benefits does PBGC guarantee? [/FONT][/EM][BR][BR][EM][FONT face=Helvetica color=#000080]A. [/FONT]PBGC guarantees "basic benefits," which include (1) pension benefits at normal retirement age, (2) most early retirement benefits, (3) disability benefits for disabilities that occurred before the plan was terminated (for terminations started after December 7, 1994, the reduced maximum guarantee for ages younger than 65 does not affect the benefits received by disabled participants who receive a disability benefit from both the pension plan and Social Security), and (4) certain benefits for survivors of plan participants. PBGC does not guarantee health care, vacation pay, or severance pay. [/EM][BR][BR][EM][FONT face=Helvetica color=#000080]Q. [/FONT][FONT face=Helvetica]Are there other limits on PBGC's guarantee? [/FONT][/EM][BR][BR][EM][FONT face=Helvetica color=#000080]A. [/FONT]Yes. For example, if your plan was created or amended to increase benefits within five years before it ended, your benefit may not be fully guaranteed. Generally, the larger of 20% or $20 per month of the benefit is guaranteed for each full year the benefit was in effect. [/EM][BR][BR][EM][FONT face=Helvetica color=#000080]Q. [/FONT][FONT face=Helvetica]Does PBGC pay survivor benefits? [/FONT][/EM][BR][BR][EM][FONT face=Helvetica color=#000080]A.[/FONT][FONT color=#000080] [/FONT]PBGC pays survivor benefits if you retired before your plan ended and your benefit included a survivor benefit, or if you were receiving a survivor benefit before the plan ended. If you are married and begin receiving retirement benefits after the plan ends, unless you and your spouse tell us in writing to do otherwise, we will pay you the benefit during your life, and then pay your surviving spouse a reduced amount. To pay for the cost of the survivor benefit, your monthly benefit is reduced during your lifetime . [BR][BR]If you are married and not yet retired, PBGC will provide a benefit to your spouse if you die before you retire. Your spouse would start receiving this benefit as early as the earliest date your plan states you can retire. [/EM][BR][BR][EM][FONT face=Helvetica color=#000080]Q. [/FONT][FONT face=Helvetica]Can I receive my benefit from PBGC in a lump sum or as a monthly annuity? [/FONT][/EM][BR][BR][EM][FONT face=Helvetica color=#000080 size=4]A.[/FONT][FONT color=#000080 size=4] [/FONT]Normally, we pay benefits in monthly payments for life. But, if the monthly benefit is $50 or less, we generally pay on a yearly basis. If the total value of the benefit is $5,000 or less, you will receive a single, lump-sum payment. However, if the benefit is at least $25 a month, you can receive it in monthly payments if you prefer. [/EM][BR][BR][EM][FONT face=Helvetica color=#000080]Q. [/FONT][FONT face=Helvetica]Can I put my lump sum into an Individual Retirement Account (IRA)? [/FONT][/EM][BR][BR][EM][FONT face=Helvetica color=#000080]A.[/FONT][FONT color=#000080] [/FONT]Yes. If the taxable portion of your lump-sum payment is transferred directly by the plan or PBGC into an IRA, you will not have to pay taxes on your benefit until you begin receiving IRA payments. This deposit is called a "tax-free rollover." For more information about tax-free rollovers and the laws controlling IRAs, call 1-800-TAX-FORM or write the Internal Revenue Service office nearest you. [/EM][BR][BR][EM][FONT face=Helvetica color=#000080]Q. [/FONT][FONT face=Helvetica]Will PBGC adjust my pension yearly for inflation? [/FONT][/EM][BR][BR][EM][FONT face=Helvetica color=#000080]A.[/FONT][FONT color=#000080] [/FONT]No, there is no cost-of-living adjustment. Your benefit is fixed as of the date your plan ended. [/EM][BR][BR][EM][FONT face=Helvetica color=#000080]Q. [/FONT][FONT face=Helvetica]Will my deductions stay the same if PBGC takes over my plan? [/FONT][/EM][BR][BR][EM][FONT face=Helvetica color=#000080]A.[/FONT][FONT color=#000080] [/FONT]PBGC only deducts federal income taxes. You will have to pay separately the state taxes and other amounts now being deducted. [/EM][BR][BR][EM][FONT face=Helvetica color=#000080]Q. [/FONT][FONT face=Helvetica]If I have other questions about PBGC, how can I find the answers?[/FONT][/EM][BR][BR][EM][FONT face=Helvetica color=#000080]A.[/FONT][FONT color=#000080] [/FONT]If you have questions about a pension plan that PBGC has taken over or about our insurance programs and retirement guarantees, contact PBGC's Technical Assistance Branch at 1200 K Street, N.W., Suite 930, Washington, DC 20005-4026, or call us at (202) 326-4000 (not a toll-free number). For TTY/TDD users, call the federal relay service toll-free at 1-800-877-8339 and ask to be connected to (202) 326-4000. If you have specific questions about your plan or your benefits, you should first contact your plan administrator or your employer. [/EM][FONT face=Helvetica][BR][BR][EM]PBGC MAXIMUM MONTHLY GUARANTEES[/EM][/FONT][FONT face="Times New Roman"][EM]Examples of the maximum guarantee for a single life annuity with no survivor benefits are shown for retirement at ages 65, 62, 60 or 55. The maximum is lower if the benefit is paid in a form other than for a single life annuity, such as a form that provides for survivor benefits. The pension benefit that PBGC can pay will depend on your age, the provisions of your plan, the form of your benefit, the legal limits on what PBGC can guarantee, and amounts PBGC recovers from employers for plan underfunding.[/EM][/FONT][FONT face="Times New Roman"][EM] [BR][/EM][BR][BR][BR]




[P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center][SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #0750a5; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"]Year Plan Terminated[/SPAN][SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #0750a5; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Arial Unicode MS'"][?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /][o][/o][/SPAN][/P]

[P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center][SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #0750a5; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"]Monthly Guarantee Limit At Age 65[/SPAN][SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #0750a5; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Arial Unicode MS'"][o][/o][/SPAN][/P]

[P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center][SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #0750a5; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"]Monthly Guarantee Limit At Age 62[/SPAN][SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #0750a5; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Arial Unicode MS'"][o][/o][/SPAN][/P]

[P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center][SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #0750a5; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"]Monthly Guarantee Limit At Age 60[/SPAN][SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #0750a5; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Arial Unicode MS'"][o][/o][/SPAN][/P]

[P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center][SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #0750a5; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"]Monthly Guarantee Limit At Age 55[/SPAN][SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #0750a5; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Arial Unicode MS'"][o][/o][/SPAN][/P]


[P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center][FONT color=#000000][SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"]2002[/SPAN][SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Arial Unicode MS'"][o][/o][/SPAN][/FONT][/P]

[P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center][FONT color=#000000][SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"]$3,579.55[/SPAN][SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Arial Unicode MS'"][o][/o][/SPAN][/FONT][/P]

[P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center][FONT color=#000000][SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"]$2,827.84[/SPAN][SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Arial Unicode MS'"][o][/o][/SPAN][/FONT][/P]

[P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center][FONT color=#000000][SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"]$2,326.71[/SPAN][SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Arial Unicode MS'"][o][/o][/SPAN][/FONT][/P]

[P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center][FONT color=#000000][SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"]$1,610.80[/SPAN][SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Arial Unicode MS'"][o][/o][/SPAN][/FONT][/P]
[P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"][FONT size=3][FONT color=#000000][FONT face=Tahoma] And the PBGC has yet to file a motion to take over the pension[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/P]

 

[Biffeman]

Chip Chip Chip,[BR][BR]The PBGC presented an overview in August at the Chairmans Conference in CLT last August, I am asking you to post facts and not your opinion.[BR][BR]One post you say the company is going to terminate the pensions and now you just said the PBGC will terminate them and just because a company is bk does not mean it meets the criteria for a distress termination, the plan.[BR][BR] [BR][BR][EM][FONT face=Helvetica color=#000080]Q. [/FONT][FONT face=Helvetica]Why do pension plans end? [/FONT][/EM][BR][BR][EM][FONT face=Helvetica color=#000080]A.[/FONT][FONT color=#000080] [/FONT]Pension plans usually end for one of three reasons: (1) the employer is having financial problems and can no longer support the plan; (2) the plan has enough money to pay all promised benefits and the employer wants to end the pension plan; or (3) the plan does not have enough funds to pay participants and PBGC decides that it should be ended in order to protect the interests of participants or the PBGC insurance program. [/EM][BR][BR][EM][FONT face=Helvetica color=#000080]Q. [/FONT][FONT face=Helvetica]How do pension plans end? [/FONT][/EM][BR][BR][EM][FONT face=Helvetica color=#000080]A.[/FONT][FONT color=#000080] [/FONT]Employers can end (terminate) pension plans in one of two ways. [BR][BR]In a standard termination, an employer ends a fully funded plan after showing PBGC that there is enough money to pay all benefits. The plan will provide the benefits owed either by purchasing an annuity from an insurance company which will provide periodic payments for life or, if your plan allows, all at once in a lump-sum. Your plan administrator must tell you what insurance company or companies your plan is considering as a possible annuity provider before making a final selection. PBGC's guarantee ends when the employer purchases the annuities or otherwise pays you the value of your pension. [BR][BR]In a distress termination, an employer ends a plan that does not have enough money to pay all benefits owed. To do so, however, the employer must prove to PBGC that the business is financially unable to support the plan. PBGC takes over the plan as trustee and uses its own assets and any remaining assets in the plan to make sure that current and future retirees receive their pension benefits, within the legal limits. [BR][BR]Under certain conditions, PBGC may terminate a pension plan, on its own initiative. PBGC can take such action if, for example, a plan does not have sufficient assets to pay benefits currently due. [/EM][BR][BR][EM][FONT face=Helvetica color=#000080]Q. [/FONT][FONT face=Helvetica]How will I know if my pension plan is ending? [/FONT][/EM][BR][BR][EM][FONT face=Helvetica color=#000080]A. [/FONT]If your employer wants to end the plan, your plan administrator must notify you in writing that your plan is ending at least 60 days before the "termination" date. This notice is called the Notice of Intent to Terminate. If PBGC is terminating the plan, we notify the plan administrator and often publish a notice about our action in local and national newspapers. [/EM][BR][BR][EM][FONT face=Helvetica color=#000080]Q. [/FONT][FONT face=Helvetica]What other information should I receive? [/FONT][/EM][BR][BR][EM][FONT face=Helvetica color=#000080]A.[/FONT][FONT color=#000080] [/FONT]In a standard termination, you should receive a second letter, called the Notice of Plan Benefits, describing the benefits you will receive. [BR][BR]In a distress termination, the plan administrator will send PBGC information about your benefits. We will figure the amount of your benefit that is guaranteed and inform you of it in writing. [/EM][BR][BR][EM][FONT face=Helvetica color=#000080]Q. [/FONT][FONT face=Helvetica]Can I earn additional benefits after my plan ends? [/FONT][/EM][BR][BR][EM][FONT face=Helvetica color=#000080]A.[/FONT][FONT color=#000080] [/FONT]No. After the plan ends, you cannot earn additional benefits. [/EM][BR][BR][EM][FONT face=Helvetica color=#000080]Q. [/FONT][FONT face=Helvetica]What happens when PBGC takes over my plan? [/FONT][/EM][BR][BR][EM][FONT face=Helvetica color=#000080]A. [/FONT]PBGC reviews your plan's records to determine what benefits each person will receive. [BR][BR][FONT face=ZapfDingbats color=#000080]l[/FONT][FONT color=#000080] [/FONT]If you are already retired and receiving benefits, we will continue paying you without interruption during our review. These payments will be an estimate of the benefits that PBGC can pay under the insurance program, and they may be less than you were receiving from your plan. [BR][BR][FONT face=ZapfDingbats color=#000080]l[/FONT][FONT color=#000080] [/FONT]If you have not yet retired, we will pay you an estimated benefit when you become eligible. [BR][BR]Once we complete our review, we will tell you in writing what your pension amount will be and what rights you have to appeal our decision. [BR][BR]The pension benefit PBGC pays depends on (1) provisions of your plan, (2) legal limits, (3) the form of your benefit, (4) your age, and (5) amounts PBGC recovers from employers for plan underfunding. [BR][BR]To ensure PBGC has the proper information for all participants, we will contact you periodically to request any changes, such as your new address if you have moved. [/EM][BR][BR][EM][FONT face=Helvetica color=#000080]Q. [/FONT][FONT face=Helvetica]What happens if PBGC's estimate is too high or too low? [/FONT][/EM][BR][BR][EM][FONT face=Helvetica color=#000080]A. [/FONT]If PBGC underpaid your benefit, we will make it up in a single payment with interest when we have completed our calculations. If we overpaid you, we will reduce future payments until the overpayment has been repaid. The reduction is no more than 10 percent of each payment. If both overpayments and underpayments were made, we will calculate the net overpayment or underpayment. [/EM][BR][BR][EM][FONT face=Helvetica color=#000080]Q. [/FONT][FONT face=Helvetica]What is the maximum amount that PBGC can guarantee? [/FONT][/EM][BR][BR][EM][FONT face=Helvetica color=#000080]A.[/FONT][FONT color=#000080] [/FONT]PBGC's maximum benefit guarantee is set each year under provisions of ERISA. For pension plans ending in 2002, for example, the maximum guaranteed amount is $3,579.55 per month ($42,954.60 per year) for a worker who retires at age 65. This guarantee is lower if you begin receiving payments before age 65 or if your pension includes benefits for a survivor or other beneficiary. The table at the end of this booklet shows PBGC's maximum guarantee for retirement at various ages. [/EM][BR][BR][EM][FONT face=Helvetica color=#000080]Q. [/FONT][FONT face=Helvetica]What benefits does PBGC guarantee? [/FONT][/EM][BR][BR][EM][FONT face=Helvetica color=#000080]A. [/FONT]PBGC guarantees "basic benefits," which include (1) pension benefits at normal retirement age, (2) most early retirement benefits, (3) disability benefits for disabilities that occurred before the plan was terminated (for terminations started after December 7, 1994, the reduced maximum guarantee for ages younger than 65 does not affect the benefits received by disabled participants who receive a disability benefit from both the pension plan and Social Security), and (4) certain benefits for survivors of plan participants. PBGC does not guarantee health care, vacation pay, or severance pay. [/EM][BR][BR][EM][FONT face=Helvetica color=#000080]Q. [/FONT][FONT face=Helvetica]Are there other limits on PBGC's guarantee? [/FONT][/EM][BR][BR][EM][FONT face=Helvetica color=#000080]A. [/FONT]Yes. For example, if your plan was created or amended to increase benefits within five years before it ended, your benefit may not be fully guaranteed. Generally, the larger of 20% or $20 per month of the benefit is guaranteed for each full year the benefit was in effect. [/EM][BR][BR][EM][FONT face=Helvetica color=#000080]Q. [/FONT][FONT face=Helvetica]Does PBGC pay survivor benefits? [/FONT][/EM][BR][BR][EM][FONT face=Helvetica color=#000080]A.[/FONT][FONT color=#000080] [/FONT]PBGC pays survivor benefits if you retired before your plan ended and your benefit included a survivor benefit, or if you were receiving a survivor benefit before the plan ended. If you are married and begin receiving retirement benefits after the plan ends, unless you and your spouse tell us in writing to do otherwise, we will pay you the benefit during your life, and then pay your surviving spouse a reduced amount. To pay for the cost of the survivor benefit, your monthly benefit is reduced during your lifetime . [BR][BR]If you are married and not yet retired, PBGC will provide a benefit to your spouse if you die before you retire. Your spouse would start receiving this benefit as early as the earliest date your plan states you can retire. [/EM][BR][BR][EM][FONT face=Helvetica color=#000080]Q. [/FONT][FONT face=Helvetica]Can I receive my benefit from PBGC in a lump sum or as a monthly annuity? [/FONT][/EM][BR][BR][EM][FONT face=Helvetica color=#000080 size=4]A.[/FONT][FONT color=#000080 size=4] [/FONT]Normally, we pay benefits in monthly payments for life. But, if the monthly benefit is $50 or less, we generally pay on a yearly basis. If the total value of the benefit is $5,000 or less, you will receive a single, lump-sum payment. However, if the benefit is at least $25 a month, you can receive it in monthly payments if you prefer. [/EM][BR][BR][EM][FONT face=Helvetica color=#000080]Q. [/FONT][FONT face=Helvetica]Can I put my lump sum into an Individual Retirement Account (IRA)? [/FONT][/EM][BR][BR][EM][FONT face=Helvetica color=#000080]A.[/FONT][FONT color=#000080] [/FONT]Yes. If the taxable portion of your lump-sum payment is transferred directly by the plan or PBGC into an IRA, you will not have to pay taxes on your benefit until you begin receiving IRA payments. This deposit is called a "tax-free rollover." For more information about tax-free rollovers and the laws controlling IRAs, call 1-800-TAX-FORM or write the Internal Revenue Service office nearest you. [/EM][BR][BR][EM][FONT face=Helvetica color=#000080]Q. [/FONT][FONT face=Helvetica]Will PBGC adjust my pension yearly for inflation? [/FONT][/EM][BR][BR][EM][FONT face=Helvetica color=#000080]A.[/FONT][FONT color=#000080] [/FONT]No, there is no cost-of-living adjustment. Your benefit is fixed as of the date your plan ended. [/EM][BR][BR][EM][FONT face=Helvetica color=#000080]Q. [/FONT][FONT face=Helvetica]Will my deductions stay the same if PBGC takes over my plan? [/FONT][/EM][BR][BR][EM][FONT face=Helvetica color=#000080]A.[/FONT][FONT color=#000080] [/FONT]PBGC only deducts federal income taxes. You will have to pay separately the state taxes and other amounts now being deducted. [/EM][BR][BR][EM][FONT face=Helvetica color=#000080]Q. [/FONT][FONT face=Helvetica]If I have other questions about PBGC, how can I find the answers?[/FONT][/EM][BR][BR][EM][FONT face=Helvetica color=#000080]A.[/FONT][FONT color=#000080] [/FONT]If you have questions about a pension plan that PBGC has taken over or about our insurance programs and retirement guarantees, contact PBGC's Technical Assistance Branch at 1200 K Street, N.W., Suite 930, Washington, DC 20005-4026, or call us at (202) 326-4000 (not a toll-free number). For TTY/TDD users, call the federal relay service toll-free at 1-800-877-8339 and ask to be connected to (202) 326-4000. If you have specific questions about your plan or your benefits, you should first contact your plan administrator or your employer. [/EM][FONT face=Helvetica][BR][BR][EM]PBGC MAXIMUM MONTHLY GUARANTEES[/EM][/FONT][FONT face="Times New Roman"][EM]Examples of the maximum guarantee for a single life annuity with no survivor benefits are shown for retirement at ages 65, 62, 60 or 55. The maximum is lower if the benefit is paid in a form other than for a single life annuity, such as a form that provides for survivor benefits. The pension benefit that PBGC can pay will depend on your age, the provisions of your plan, the form of your benefit, the legal limits on what PBGC can guarantee, and amounts PBGC recovers from employers for plan underfunding.[/EM][/FONT][FONT face="Times New Roman"][EM] [BR][/EM][BR][BR][BR]




[P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center][SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #0750a5; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"]Year Plan Terminated[/SPAN][SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #0750a5; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Arial Unicode MS'"][?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /][o][/o][/SPAN][/P]

[P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center][SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #0750a5; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"]Monthly Guarantee Limit At Age 65[/SPAN][SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #0750a5; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Arial Unicode MS'"][o][/o][/SPAN][/P]

[P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center][SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #0750a5; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"]Monthly Guarantee Limit At Age 62[/SPAN][SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #0750a5; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Arial Unicode MS'"][o][/o][/SPAN][/P]

[P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center][SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #0750a5; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"]Monthly Guarantee Limit At Age 60[/SPAN][SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #0750a5; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Arial Unicode MS'"][o][/o][/SPAN][/P]

[P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center][SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #0750a5; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"]Monthly Guarantee Limit At Age 55[/SPAN][SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #0750a5; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Arial Unicode MS'"][o][/o][/SPAN][/P]


[P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center][FONT color=#000000][SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"]2002[/SPAN][SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Arial Unicode MS'"][o][/o][/SPAN][/FONT][/P]

[P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center][FONT color=#000000][SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"]$3,579.55[/SPAN][SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Arial Unicode MS'"][o][/o][/SPAN][/FONT][/P]

[P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center][FONT color=#000000][SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"]$2,827.84[/SPAN][SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Arial Unicode MS'"][o][/o][/SPAN][/FONT][/P]

[P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center][FONT color=#000000][SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"]$2,326.71[/SPAN][SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Arial Unicode MS'"][o][/o][/SPAN][/FONT][/P]

[P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center][FONT color=#000000][SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"]$1,610.80[/SPAN][SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Arial Unicode MS'"][o][/o][/SPAN][/FONT][/P]
[P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"][FONT size=3][FONT color=#000000][FONT face=Tahoma] And the PBGC has yet to file a motion to take over the pension[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/P]

 

[OldpropGuy]

[P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"][SPAN class=bodyfont1][SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt"][FONT face=Arial]Chip wrote:[?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /][o][/o][/FONT][/SPAN][/SPAN][/P]
[P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"][SPAN class=bodyfont1][SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt"][FONT face=Arial]--------------------------------------[o][/o][/FONT][/SPAN][/SPAN][/P]
[P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"][SPAN class=bodyfont1][SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt"][FONT face=Arial]The company [/FONT][/SPAN][/SPAN][STRONG][FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#000000]meets all four [/FONT][/STRONG][SPAN class=bodyfont1][SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt"][FONT face=Arial]criteria per the PBGC's website to seek a "distress termination" of pension plans for any employee groups who do not provide concessionaire accords per the guidelines above. In fact, it appears the airline meets all of the four PBGC "tests" for a distressed termination[o][/o][/FONT][/SPAN][/SPAN][/P]
[P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"][SPAN class=bodyfont1][SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt"][FONT face=Arial]--------------------------------------[/FONT][/SPAN][/SPAN][/P]
[P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"][SPAN class=bodyfont1][SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt"][o][FONT face=Arial] [/FONT][/o][/SPAN][/SPAN][/P]
[P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"][SPAN class=bodyfont1][SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt"][FONT face=Arial]I add:[o][/o][/FONT][/SPAN][/SPAN][/P]
[P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"][SPAN class=bodyfont1][B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"][SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt"][FONT face=Arial]The company appears to meet the criteria for termination of pension plans for all employee groups, not just those who do not agree to additional concessions![o][/o][/FONT][/SPAN][/B][/SPAN][/P]
[P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"][SPAN class=bodyfont1][B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"][SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt"][o][FONT face=Arial] [/FONT][/o][/SPAN][/B][/SPAN][/P]
[P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"][SPAN class=bodyfont1][B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"][SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt"][FONT face=Arial][SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"] [/SPAN]What would keep this from happening, should the company decide to follow through? That would be additional “easy moneyâ€￾ for Dave’s cause. [SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"] [/SPAN][o][/o][/FONT][/SPAN][/B][/SPAN][/P]
[P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"][o][FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#000000] [/FONT][/o][/P]

 

[OldpropGuy]

[P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"][SPAN class=bodyfont1][SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt"][FONT face=Arial]Chip wrote:[?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /][o][/o][/FONT][/SPAN][/SPAN][/P]
[P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"][SPAN class=bodyfont1][SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt"][FONT face=Arial]--------------------------------------[o][/o][/FONT][/SPAN][/SPAN][/P]
[P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"][SPAN class=bodyfont1][SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt"][FONT face=Arial]The company [/FONT][/SPAN][/SPAN][STRONG][FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#000000]meets all four [/FONT][/STRONG][SPAN class=bodyfont1][SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt"][FONT face=Arial]criteria per the PBGC's website to seek a "distress termination" of pension plans for any employee groups who do not provide concessionaire accords per the guidelines above. In fact, it appears the airline meets all of the four PBGC "tests" for a distressed termination[o][/o][/FONT][/SPAN][/SPAN][/P]
[P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"][SPAN class=bodyfont1][SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt"][FONT face=Arial]--------------------------------------[/FONT][/SPAN][/SPAN][/P]
[P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"][SPAN class=bodyfont1][SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt"][o][FONT face=Arial] [/FONT][/o][/SPAN][/SPAN][/P]
[P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"][SPAN class=bodyfont1][SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt"][FONT face=Arial]I add:[o][/o][/FONT][/SPAN][/SPAN][/P]
[P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"][SPAN class=bodyfont1][B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"][SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt"][FONT face=Arial]The company appears to meet the criteria for termination of pension plans for all employee groups, not just those who do not agree to additional concessions![o][/o][/FONT][/SPAN][/B][/SPAN][/P]
[P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"][SPAN class=bodyfont1][B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"][SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt"][o][FONT face=Arial] [/FONT][/o][/SPAN][/B][/SPAN][/P]
[P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"][SPAN class=bodyfont1][B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"][SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt"][FONT face=Arial][SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"] [/SPAN]What would keep this from happening, should the company decide to follow through? That would be additional “easy moneyâ€￾ for Dave’s cause. [SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"] [/SPAN][o][/o][/FONT][/SPAN][/B][/SPAN][/P]
[P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"][o][FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#000000] [/FONT][/o][/P]

 

[Biffeman]

Chip you fail to realize that if your pension is part of your collective bargaining agreement the company must replace it..

 

[Biffeman]

Chip you fail to realize that if your pension is part of your collective bargaining agreement the company must replace it..

 

[Biffeman]

[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 12/5/2002 7:35:40 AM PineyBob wrote:
[P]Tug Slug,[BR]I happen to believe your time is up no matter what. To me the decision you make should be based on extending your employment for as long a period as possible by any means! Negotiate severance and get the company to agree to pay something towards retraining. I read every single post on the threads that I respond to and my conclussion is that Dave & Jerry Glass have completely out foxed your union negotiators at every turn. If it were football you'd be behind 54-0 at halftime. they have you all painted into corner you can't get out of. Your decision IMHO is how to minimize casualties, not how to preserve the status quo![BR][BR]I think the only reason Chip seemd so pro management is that he feels like I do. That either way I'm getting screwed, so what steps do I take to minimize the screwing I know I am about to get. I don't profess to know what Chips' real thoughts are, Heck if i could read minds you think I'd be here posting.[/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P][/P]Bob, I think you should educate yourself on the issues before you post, the unionized employees at US Airways all ready have severence in our labor agreements. ANd this company will not pay diddily squat for someone to be retrained, they are in bankruptcy remember? Sometimes you need to learn when to stand up instead of taking it in the shorts. What this company wants is to be a virtual airline with mimimum employees. 500 RJs flown by non-us airways employees, worked by non-us airways employees and maintained by non-us airways employees.[BR][BR]I can give you tons of information about the shody work done by vendors who work on airplane, valujet had a virtual maitenance program and you saw what happened to them. I would rather fly on an airplane that a mechanic who works for the company that flies them then a vendor who employees independant contractors so they do not have to provide insurance or medical benefits to them so keep their costs down and get cheap labor.[BR][BR]Bob you are not an airline employee and you do not have any idea of what sacrifces have been made by all the airline workers, we are being assaulted at every front. And if we dont stand up and fight for our rights and dignity we might as well commit suicide. Those before us faught the battles to achieve what we have now, and I for one will not turn my back and vote away my wages, benefits and employment. If you look back in history, people who have fought for their rights usually end up winnning.[BR][BR]And like I said no airline has ever been saved by employee give backs be it voluntary or mandatory:[BR]Pan Am, National, Eastern, Braniff (Three times), Midway (twice), Vangaurd, National, TWA, Air South, Air 21, Air Atlanta, Peoples Express, Pro Air, Air Florida, Eastwind, Tower Air and numerous others. More airlines have been created and failed since deregulation in 1978 then in the previous 50 years. The problem is the industry is broken and paycuts and layoffs will not fix the core problem.