Small Plane crash

FLYING WEST

I hope there's a place, way up in the sky
Where pilots can go when they have to die.
A place where a guy could buy a cold beer
For a friend and a comrade whose memory is dear.
A place where no doctor or lawyer could tread,
Nor a management-type would e'ler be caught dead!
Just a quaint little place, kind of dark, full of smoke,
Where they like to sing loud, and love a good joke.
The kind of a place that a lady could go
And feel safe and secure by the men she would know.

There must be a place where old pilots go,
When their wings become heavy, when their airspeed gets low,
Where the whiskey is old, and the women are young,
And songs about flying and dying are sung.
Where you'd see all the fellows who'd 'flown west' before,
And they'd call out your name, as you came through the door,
Who would buy you a drink, if your thirst should be bad,
And relate to the others, "He was quite a good lad!"

And there, through the mist, you'd spot an old guy
You had not seen in years, though he'd taught you to fly.
He'd nod his old head, and grin ear to ear
And say, "Welcome, my Son, I'm proud that you're here!
For this is the place where true flyers come
When the battles are over, and the wars have been won.
They've come here at last, to be safe and alone,
From the government clerk, and the management clone;
Politicians and lawyers, the Feds, and the noise,
Where all hours are happy, and these good ol' boys
Can relax with a cool one, and a well deserved rest!
This is Heaven, my Son. You've passed your last test!"


— Captain Michael J. Larkin, TWA (Ret.), 'Air Line Pilot' magazine, February 1995

So long, Kate
So long, Jonathan
 
May GOD have mercy on their souls,
AND,
Especially on the surviving family members, and friends !!!!!!!!!!!

It DOES'NT make a damn bit of difference WHAT paint job, is on that aluminum skin, when this horrible SH*T happens !!!!!1

"Rest in peace"

NH/BB's
 
[blockquote]
----------------
On 1/9/2003 4:26:40 PM ClueByFour wrote:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,75096,00.html

The NTSB is saying that the plane left the ground at around 7 degrees of pitch but was up to 54 degrees by 1200 feet.

An elevator tab was replaced on Monday.


----------------
[/blockquote]

Again, I caution people not to speculate too much here. The final cause in events like these usually turn out to be a chain of events, and the initial spectulation and witness accounts are usually wrong or at least incomplete.

Sticking to the facts though, it is interesting that the FDR records 54 degrees up. I am typed in a 1900. It's been many years, but I can confirm that 54 degrees would never be a normal pitch attitude.

The info on the elevator tab I'm sure will be one focus of the investigation. So will center of gravity. On the "C" models I remember having to put 50 - 100 lbs of balast in the nose compartment when carrying 19 PAX, depending on baggage in the rear. It was pretty easy to get to the aft CG limit when full.

I have a feeling the investigation will be completed rather quickly compared to others, since the wreckage was confined to a small area and th CVR and FDR were both recovered.

Stay tuned. I truley hope this does not affect USAir's recovery efforts.
Once again, my sincerest condolences to the friends and families of those directly naffected by this.
 
[A href="http://http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,75096,00.html"]http://http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,75096,00.html[/A][BR][BR]The NTSB is saying that the plane left the ground at around 7 degrees of pitch (sounds normal--I have no time at all in a 1900 and about an hour in a King Air) but was up to 54 degrees by 1200 feet.[BR][BR]An elevator tab was replaced on Monday. [BR][BR]
 
[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 1/9/2003 5:02:15 PM 767jetz wrote:
[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 1/9/2003 4:26:40 PM ClueByFour wrote: [BR][BR]http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,75096,00.html[BR][BR]The NTSB is saying that the plane left the ground at around 7 degrees of pitch but was up to 54 degrees by 1200 feet.[BR][BR]An elevator tab was replaced on Monday. [BR][BR][BR]----------------[BR][/BLOCKQUOTE][BR][BR]Again, I caution people not to speculate too much here. The final cause in events like these usually turn out to be a chain of events, and the initial spectulation and witness accounts are usually wrong or at least incomplete.[BR][BR]Sticking to the facts though, it is interesting that the FDR records 54 degrees up. I am typed in a 1900. It's been many years, but I can confirm that 54 degrees would never be a normal pitch attitude.[BR][BR]The info on the elevator tab I'm sure will be one focus of the investigation. So will center of gravity. On the "C" models I remember having to put 50 - 100 lbs of balast in the nose compartment when carrying 19 PAX, depending on baggage in the rear. It was pretty easy to get to the aft CG limit when full.[BR][BR]I have a feeling the investigation will be completed rather quickly compared to others, since the wreckage was confined to a small area and th CVR and FDR were both recovered.[BR][BR]Stay tuned. I truley hope this does not affect USAir's recovery efforts. [BR]Once again, my sincerest condolences to the friends and families of those directly naffected by this.
[P][/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P]Apparently, the elevator tab was in fact worked on or replaced by Raytheon in West Virginia on Monday. The plane completed about 5 or 6 flights prior to the crash.[BR][BR]According to CNN, the FDR kept data for several prior flights on the loop as well as for a few flights prior to Monday. Anomalous elevator movements were noted on every flight following the maintenance work, but not noted on any flight prior to the work.[/P]
 
Per CNN.COM

FAA orders Air Midwest to immediately inspect 45 planes that were serviced at same facility as one that crashed Wednesday. Details soon.
 
The anomolies were recorded by the FDR, but were they ever noted by the crew? If so, was there any follow up maintenace performed? So many questions, so many lawyers. This has a bad smell about it. I know it is still early in the invesitgation, but the lawyers won't care.
 
Quoted from TRIP CONFIRMED:
I am a travel agent. It's not that the flying public doesn't already know, especially with the one decent ramp agent and his attempts to stop the flight before everyone died, and resulting publicity
-----------------

What exactly does this mean?? I've heard nothing about an agent trying to stop the flight.

A320 Driver
 
[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 1/9/2003 8:25:42 PM Trip Confirmed wrote:
[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 1/8/2003 9:17:51 PM flyin2low wrote: [BR][BR]The accident was caused by overloading the cargo bins (2) beyond a safe weight. Nothing had to shift anywhere to create this scenario. They plane merely rotated at V1 and kept on going until it stalled, and then the subsequent asymetric rolling and pitch moments did their deed.[BR][BR]The airlines have a program to "average" all bags loaded. USAir uses 24lbs/bag. Now we all know that most checked bags are nearly 40-70 lbs in reality. With small aircraft, it is very easy to go over the limit without filling the compartment up. Most rampers are not trained very well in this area and continue to load up until there is no more space. Then they will help the crew and cust service by lying about what the real bag count is, to get it out........[BR]----------------[BR][/BLOCKQUOTE][BR][BR][BR]I am a travel agent. It's not that the flying public doesn't already know, especially with the one decent ramp agent and his attempts to stop the flight before everyone died, and resulting publicity, but may I have your permission to send your post to EVERY client I have?
[P][/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P][/P]You have my permission to send this one out. I have had to leave people and/or bags off many times due to the flight numbers showing unacceptable. There was no help involved from the ground crew or flight crew. It was my option to either try to get volunteers to stay behind or to leave bags if no one wanted to wait for a later flight and be compensated. X number of passengers with X number of bags and thats all. [BR]I'm glad someone already has the "real" reason for the crash figured out. [BR]
 
[blockquote]
----------------
On 1/8/2003 9:17:51 PM flyin2low wrote:

The accident was caused by overloading the cargo bins (2) beyond a safe weight. Nothing had to shift anywhere to create this scenario. They plane merely rotated at V1 and kept on going until it stalled, and then the subsequent asymetric rolling and pitch moments did their deed.

The airlines have a program to "average" all bags loaded. USAir uses 24lbs/bag. Now we all know that most checked bags are nearly 40-70 lbs in reality. With small aircraft, it is very easy to go over the limit without filling the compartment up. Most rampers are not trained very well in this area and continue to load up until there is no more space. Then they will help the crew and cust service by lying about what the real bag count is, to get it out........
----------------
[/blockquote]


I am a travel agent. It's not that the flying public doesn't already know, especially with the one decent ramp agent and his attempts to stop the flight before everyone died, and resulting publicity, but may I have your permission to send your post to EVERY client I have?
 
[blockquote]
----------------
On 1/8/2003 7:11:42 PM PineyBob wrote:

As I have been sitting and reading all of the posts it occured to me that Air Midwest operates the Express Flights out of my favorite little airport ACY. And I also recall a "mixed" flight crew (M & F) that delayed us nearly an hour because they refused to fly due to a very minor maintanence item. I seem to recall his name being Jonathan and they were steadfast in there resolve. He told us "It's Probably just a bad sensor but I won't take that chance" We got another plane and and flight crew. Now I can't help but wonder if that nice apologetic pilot is the one who met his maker today.

It's funny when you watch the news and you think "Wow glad it wasn't me" Then when you stop and realize that there is a possibility that you might actually have talked to someone on that flight it brings new perspective and emotions.

I feel sad too because the Beech is such a sturdy little warrior. Most people don't like to fly them but I never minded. I felt safe and secure for some reason. I even sleep onboard. I wonder if it will be differnt for me now. Been a weird day for this PAX. I guess when you have lost several loved ones over the years your perspective changes. For me, my hearts are with those left behind. The husbands & wives whose last words to each other were words in anger, for those who left things unsaid, for the dreams that now go unfulfilled. It sure makes my bitching a Skymall over a undelivered DVD/VCR seem trivial and petty I'll tell ya! God Blees them all! Heal their pain! Help us ALL to remember what's truly important
----------------
[/blockquote]


He told us "It's Probably just a bad sensor but I won't take that chance" We got another plane and and flight crew. Now I can't help but wonder if that nice apologetic pilot is the one who met his maker today.

I CANNOT BELIEVE YOU SAID THAT.FOR EVERY FLYER IN THE WORLD TO SEE.
 
[FONT color=#999999][BR][FONT color=#0b3053][FONT color=#999999]I'm glad someone already has the "real" reason for the crash figured out.[/FONT] [BR][/FONT][BR][FONT color=#000000 size=5]Thanx[/FONT][BR][/FONT]
 
[blockquote]
----------------
On 1/9/2003 9:30:36 PM sdavis29 wrote:



especially with the one decent ramp agent and his attempts to stop the flight before everyone died, and resulting publicity
-----------------

What exactly does this mean?? I've heard nothing about an agent trying to stop the flight.


Here is your answer-nationwide tv and internet

http://www.msnbc.com/news/856493.asp
 
[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 1/9/2003 8:43:17 PM A320 Driver wrote:
[P]Quoted from TRIP CONFIRMED:[BR]I am a travel agent. It's not that the flying public doesn't already know, especially with the one decent ramp agent and his attempts to stop the flight before everyone died, and resulting publicity[BR]-----------------[BR][BR]What exactly does this mean?? I've heard nothing about an agent trying to stop the flight.[BR][BR]A320 Driver[/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P]a320...small bit in here on overgross a/c[BR][A href="http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/South/01/09/plane.crash/index.html"]http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/South/01/09/plane.crash/index.html[/A][BR][BR][/P]
 

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