ITRADE
Veteran
Wow....And now word has come out about a crash of a B 737-400 operated by a Turkish Airline.
Small Plane crash
- Thread starter mturpiz
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callgirlcindie
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Amen, PineyBob! As Chip stated earlier, it makes you put things into persective..a job is just a job, but family and friends are forever..and the most important things in life..lets all take a few moments to remember the families
that are suffering today and give our loved ones an extra hug!
that are suffering today and give our loved ones an extra hug!
The reporting of this and pretty much any other accident is pathetic. CNN had Mary Schiavo on this morning and her "theory" was a load shift caused this accident. She mentioned it resembling the DC-8 at MIA a few years ago? WTFO? She has obviously never ridden in a BE-1900 that was loaded with 19 people. There would not be enough room for the passengers to congregate in one point of the plane to change the CG that much. Then you have that bozo Miles O'brien talking about the aircraft being overgrossed due to his calculations. The unfortunate thing for Miles is he was was using the numbers for a regular King Air 300 and not the BE-1900. Sure they look similar but it is like using the gross weights for a 757 to say a 767 was overgross on takeoff.
The one thing everyone including the media need to remember is that accidents are caused by a chain of events. One break of the safety chain and that is when accidents happen.
Thoughts and prayers to all who lost loved ones and those that have to man the phones and answer the difficult questions.
The one thing everyone including the media need to remember is that accidents are caused by a chain of events. One break of the safety chain and that is when accidents happen.
Thoughts and prayers to all who lost loved ones and those that have to man the phones and answer the difficult questions.
Yankee Air Pirate
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[blockquote]
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On 1/8/2003 4:37:11 PM magsau wrote:
The reporting of this and pretty much any other accident is pathetic. CNN had Mary Schiavo on this morning and her "theory" was a load shift caused this accident. She mentioned it resembling the DC-8 at MIA a few years ago? WTFO? She has obviously never ridden in a BE-1900 that was loaded with 19 people. There would not be enough room for the passengers to congregate in one point of the plane to change the CG that much. Then you have that bozo Miles O'brien talking about the aircraft being overgrossed due to his calculations. The unfortunate thing for Miles is he was was using the numbers for a regular King Air 300 and not the BE-1900. Sure they look similar but it is like using the gross weights for a 757 to say a 767 was overgross on takeoff.
The one thing everyone including the media need to remember is that accidents are caused by a chain of events. One break of the safety chain and that is when accidents happen.
Thoughts and prayers to all who lost loved ones and those that have to man the phones and answer the difficult questions.
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[/blockquote]
Magsau,
The B1900D has an aft cargo area that is off limits in revenue flight. A cargo net separates it from the main cargo area. If enough bags/cargo were in the back, and the net was improperly hooked/attached or failed, it could conceivably allow the cargo to spill into the aft section creating an extremely aft c.g. A crash such as this would probably require a second event in combination with that sudden aft c.g. shift. Having never experienced such a scenario, I, as everyone else, can only speculate. The Beech is a mighty little airplane, with a loyal cadre of present and former aircrew. Hopefully a thorough investigation will cast light on the true cause. In the meantime, it is a sad day for YV/ZV pilots, all airline employees, and most importantly, the families of the passengers.
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On 1/8/2003 4:37:11 PM magsau wrote:
The reporting of this and pretty much any other accident is pathetic. CNN had Mary Schiavo on this morning and her "theory" was a load shift caused this accident. She mentioned it resembling the DC-8 at MIA a few years ago? WTFO? She has obviously never ridden in a BE-1900 that was loaded with 19 people. There would not be enough room for the passengers to congregate in one point of the plane to change the CG that much. Then you have that bozo Miles O'brien talking about the aircraft being overgrossed due to his calculations. The unfortunate thing for Miles is he was was using the numbers for a regular King Air 300 and not the BE-1900. Sure they look similar but it is like using the gross weights for a 757 to say a 767 was overgross on takeoff.
The one thing everyone including the media need to remember is that accidents are caused by a chain of events. One break of the safety chain and that is when accidents happen.
Thoughts and prayers to all who lost loved ones and those that have to man the phones and answer the difficult questions.
----------------
[/blockquote]
Magsau,
The B1900D has an aft cargo area that is off limits in revenue flight. A cargo net separates it from the main cargo area. If enough bags/cargo were in the back, and the net was improperly hooked/attached or failed, it could conceivably allow the cargo to spill into the aft section creating an extremely aft c.g. A crash such as this would probably require a second event in combination with that sudden aft c.g. shift. Having never experienced such a scenario, I, as everyone else, can only speculate. The Beech is a mighty little airplane, with a loyal cadre of present and former aircrew. Hopefully a thorough investigation will cast light on the true cause. In the meantime, it is a sad day for YV/ZV pilots, all airline employees, and most importantly, the families of the passengers.
For the lost ones, and their loved ones.
The Lord bless thee and keep thee:
The Lord make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee.
The Lord lift up His countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.
Numbers 6:24-26
And for everyone who offered aid and comfort, God bless you.
Amen.
The Lord bless thee and keep thee:
The Lord make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee.
The Lord lift up His countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.
Numbers 6:24-26
And for everyone who offered aid and comfort, God bless you.
Amen.
[blockquote]
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On 1/8/2003 9:46:11 AM mturpiz wrote:
I can't, off the top of my head, come up with any other Beech 1900 accidents. This couldn't be the first one, could it?
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[/blockquote]
Believe this is the first fatal 1900D accident in the US.
Great Lakes/United Express had a fatal ground collision involving a 1900C at Quincy, IL, in the mid-90s.
Can't think of any other fatal 1900 accidents involving scheduled US carriers.
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On 1/8/2003 9:46:11 AM mturpiz wrote:
I can't, off the top of my head, come up with any other Beech 1900 accidents. This couldn't be the first one, could it?
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[/blockquote]
Believe this is the first fatal 1900D accident in the US.
Great Lakes/United Express had a fatal ground collision involving a 1900C at Quincy, IL, in the mid-90s.
Can't think of any other fatal 1900 accidents involving scheduled US carriers.
ONTHESTREET
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I have to agree with the posts about the newsmedias behavior....horrible.
I did not find the NTSB guy any more reassuring. In the initial briefing today one reporter asked him which person was Pilot in Command. His response.....I do not know which was pilot in command!!!!! Incredible!!! Well lets see....two pilots up front, one with 4 stripes (CAPTAIN) and one with 3 stripes (First Officer) hmmm thats a tough one.
My Families prayers go out to all the families of the one that were lost. God Bless.
I did not find the NTSB guy any more reassuring. In the initial briefing today one reporter asked him which person was Pilot in Command. His response.....I do not know which was pilot in command!!!!! Incredible!!! Well lets see....two pilots up front, one with 4 stripes (CAPTAIN) and one with 3 stripes (First Officer) hmmm thats a tough one.
My Families prayers go out to all the families of the one that were lost. God Bless.
I don't understand ANY of this. As I crawled into bed with these images in my mind, I immediately felt angry and guilty. How many people on the roads in America died today that we did not even hear about? Why should I grieve about these people and not about those people? Is that not fair? Why is it that this is such a tragedy but those "unknown" deaths are not?
Why is it that this crash might scare some from flying but the 50 car pileup in Utah resulting in numerous deaths and injuries doesn't seem to scare anyone from driving?
I just don't understand any of this. I don't know who has all the answers to any of these questions, but having experienced Christianity for awhile, I don't feel that it offers any REAL answers either.
This message is like a painful bowel movement, and I just had to get it out to try to sleep.
![15.gif']](/proxy.php?image=http%3A%2F%2F%5Bimg+src%3D%27http%3A%2F%2Fwww.usaviation.com%2Fidealbb%2Fimages%2Fsmilies%2F15.gif%27%5D&hash=b6bfe08401dde06cf5d7c1c64eda681b)
Why is it that this crash might scare some from flying but the 50 car pileup in Utah resulting in numerous deaths and injuries doesn't seem to scare anyone from driving?
I just don't understand any of this. I don't know who has all the answers to any of these questions, but having experienced Christianity for awhile, I don't feel that it offers any REAL answers either.
This message is like a painful bowel movement, and I just had to get it out to try to sleep.
Seatacus
Veteran
[blockquote]
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On 1/8/2003 7:51:13 PM diogenes wrote:
For the lost ones, and their loved ones.
The Lord bless thee and keep thee:
The Lord make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee.
The Lord lift up His countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.
Numbers 6:24-26
And for everyone who offered aid and comfort, God bless you.
Amen.
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[/blockquote]
Ditto...I couldn't have said that any better
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On 1/8/2003 7:51:13 PM diogenes wrote:
For the lost ones, and their loved ones.
The Lord bless thee and keep thee:
The Lord make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee.
The Lord lift up His countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.
Numbers 6:24-26
And for everyone who offered aid and comfort, God bless you.
Amen.
----------------
[/blockquote]
Ditto...I couldn't have said that any better
The accident was caused by overloading the cargo bins (2) beyond a safe weight. Nothing had to shift anywhere to create this scenario. They plane merely rotated at V1 and kept on going until it stalled, and then the subsequent asymetric rolling and pitch moments did their deed.[BR][BR]The airlines have a program to "average" all bags loaded. USAir uses 24lbs/bag. Now we all know that most checked bags are nearly 40-70 lbs in reality. With small aircraft, it is very easy to go over the limit without filling the compartment up. Most rampers are not trained very well in this area and continue to load up until there is no more space. Then they will help the crew and cust service by lying about what the real bag count is, to get it out........
I went through puberty in 1900 and a few too many bags didn't cause what happened today. The 1900D in the US is certified to 16,950 lb. and the average aircraft weighs only 10,300 lb. BOW. I have had rampers ask how many bags I could take before and told them 32 and then had it turn out to be 32 navy sea bags which were more than three times the average bag weight. The plane flew fine.
If aft CG were a culprit today, it was in conjunction with something else. Possibly an engine failure with no autofeather, an over active or not propperly installed rudder boost which compounded the problem or maybe wake turbulence of some kind.
No matter, I pray that pilot error will not be an issue. Anytime a fellow aviator passes in the process of performing his/her work we all hope that the last things they did before they gave everything were the right things....
If aft CG were a culprit today, it was in conjunction with something else. Possibly an engine failure with no autofeather, an over active or not propperly installed rudder boost which compounded the problem or maybe wake turbulence of some kind.
No matter, I pray that pilot error will not be an issue. Anytime a fellow aviator passes in the process of performing his/her work we all hope that the last things they did before they gave everything were the right things....
