Scam Cirri and Debbie Stealer

[Bob Owens]

.
Sam needed to stay back on this to work on getting these jobs. On UBC.
Sam requested Debbie to stay back as well to assist in these matters.
The TWU allowed this UBC sometime before Friday Dec 14th. ( Really Strange I think.)

Not really. UBC is 'pay continuance' and its part of company regs. Its been in there a long time. Its used for when someone is going to be on UB for extended periods of time to maintain their benefits or any other payroll deductions such as loan repayments , 401K contributions etc. This is commonly used in contract negotiations.


The President or Treasurer of the Local requests it from the Company. I remember setting it up for our Stores Rep back in 2000 for negotiations.

With UBB gone for M&R all the Presidents lost time is either UBC or UBP(if meeting with the company).

The person on UBC continues to get a regular paycheck from AA and AA then bills the Union.

The company adds in the cost of benefits to what they bill the union.

There is an LOA in the contract that says that people who are on UB will not lose anything on their pension for UB time, with the changeover to a 401K match now all UB will be UBC so we don't lose the match.

So without getting into all the other stuff the fact that Sam, the President of 514, is staying in Tulsa on UBC seems reasonable.

 

[TWU informer]

@Greg Martin - I would suggest you get a lawyer and file a DFR against the TWU, Sam Cirri, and anyone else you have been in contact with from the TWU. It seems now Cirri is going to negotiate more openings to appease you and the harmed others. Screw that you have already suffered irreparable harm from these actions. No wonder the main goal was to save the Title 2 from RIF, that was where they all wanted to land. How many times will AA allow these issues with unqualified people being assigned to fill positions? Why does Politics always override smart business and then they want us to fund the crap with concessions?

 

[FLYNFISH]

Bob, I just want to say I am a reasonable man. I could probably accept the need for Sam to go on UBC, but how can you justify keeping the chairman of fleet when the fleet service department doesn't exist in Tulsa anymore. This is probably a first where UBC has been used to allow someone within the union to violate seniority and be awarded a position over senior employees. I don't think that is the intent of UBC. There are E board members all over that local that could have assisted him in resolving this. I think most everyone can see this for what it is!

Old Guy we aint laying down!

Informer thanks for your advice. We are all in agreement that we have been harmed by this action. Its a shame we must travel this road. We know we have built a much bigger wall between us and Tulsa. All we ever wanted was a chance at those positions that we were told about. As far as us being qualified we truly are. I have over 30 yrs as a carpenter/woodworker. I was awarded the carpenter shop. I know the other two qualified legitamitly in in their trades. And thanks to everyone who has sent me words of support. It should never had went down like this.

To the TWU international, you have been made aware of this situation. I think you may have also been left out of some of the details of this deal. The three of us look forward to hearing from you Mr. Gillespie. I hope you can right this wrong!

 

[Bob Owens]

Bob, I just want to say I am a reasonable man. I could probably accept the need for Sam to go on UBC, but how can you justify keeping the chairman of fleet when the fleet service department doesn't exist in Tulsa anymore.

I was simply clarifying UBC as your interpretation of it apparently was not correct. I'm not defending Sam , just giving facts. I didnt delve into the rest because I dont know one way or the other what the story is down there. I do know that here in our Local we kept Nick Massi (RIP) on as President even after they eliminated aircraft cleaners from JFK. He was retired as well. Bobby Avola served out his term as President of Local 507(?) (BOS) even though his Title group went to Local 562.

If we elect someone should we allow the company to remove them by changing things around? Its kind of like what Don Videtich is trying to do to Line Maintenance, all his pets kept getting voted out so he ended up with 6 Presidents he could not manipulate so what does he do-try and eliminate the Locals as a means of eliminating the Presidents so he only has to deal with one. Now under Dons plan we could have 11 FSC Presidents sitting across from two mechanics in the mechanics negotiations!!

This is probably a first where UBC has been used to allow someone within the union to violate seniority and be awarded a position over senior employees. I don't think that is the intent of UBC. There are E board members all over that local that could have assisted him in resolving this. I think most everyone can see this for what it is!

To me if his UBC is paid at the FSC rate then I dont see any wrong doing, but I dont know that. You are saying that he was awarded a Title II spot out of seniority, if thats the case then its wrong.

To the TWU international, you have been made aware of this situation. I think you may have also been left out of some of the details of this deal. The three of us look forward to hearing from you Mr. Gillespie. I hope you can right this wrong!

Good luck with that, if anything, if there was a deal they were the ones who cooked it up, as OLDGUY said payback for getting Tulsa to push through the worst deal in the industry.

 

[Swordfish]

Flynfish,

You are getting screwed, file a grievance with 513, if they won't do it...go by 565 and those guys will help you. I know they get a bad wrap for being a strong handed Aircraft & Stores local but they never turn their backs in union brothers or sisters. Many of 513's guys get help from 565, they will get you the help you need.

 

[Chuck Schalk]

[Flyinfish
Maybe I'm wrong. What do ya'll think? I'd love to hear your comments! Especially yours SAM !!
To all my friends in Tulsa, I'll see you later it has been great working with you all over the last 17+ years. I had a lot of great times. I just wish it would not have ended like it did. Greg
[/quote


The TWU never fails to amaze me on how they make things happen when they want to and tell us a story when we want something done. This is just another move by the international to take care of the people who take care of them. History has proven in this so called union that the select few will sell out the masses to retain the empire and not retain our careers. Classic case is TWU ex-president of MCI. He could not lead a book reading club yet he is hand picked to be a paid organizer. His tenure as president in MCI was at best dull. While they were walking members out the door, he was writing to his members what a great job they and the TWU were doing........WTF?
When will we make the decision to get the proper representation of our class and craft and go with an organization without all this behind the scene deals and dictator constitution?
How would you like to witness your negotiations?
thats right sit behind your negotiators while they are negotiating with the company!
You would be able to hear it for yourself instead of water downed rhetoric if anything at all from the TWU.
This is huge for any member to have the ability to do this, no one else has that....
no more waiting for the negotiating committee to release information, you are there!!!!!

AMFA provides this and more......knowledge is power.....dont listen to paid professional salesman. They do a good job with their truckers stay with what you know.
talk to an AMFA organizer who will provide backed up information as to the real story.
An AMFA organizer can provide acess to AMFA members who can directly answer questions you may have based on what you have heard. I urge Tulsa members to reach out to the AMFA organizers and ask the hard questions, they will support their answers. We have made alot of bad decisions in the past lets not make another one, our careers are hanging by a thread as it is.

AMFA 2013

 

[Tex-Mech]

To the TWU international, you have been made aware of this situation. I think you may have also been left out of some of the details of this deal. The three of us look forward to hearing from you Mr. Gillespie. I hope you can right this wrong!

Gillespie...isn't he one of the retired clowns? Sought of like a Siri deal in which he gets to collect his pension based on his International salary, and gets his $170k international salary. Of course his retirement would have been lower if the PBGC took over if Siri didn't come through for him with the Tulsa votes. Don't expect any help from Gillespie. He is just going to put the fire out. Sam is a made man.

Siri: tell me what Tim Gillespie makes?
Answer: I'm sorry, i can't count that high.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

Then let's unmake him. Debbie as well.

 

[comatose]

Is it true that all hand payers were put on check off by payroll without the consent of the employee? Is this another TWU working together screw you?

 

[Realityck]

I need to reply to this posting. I received a call tonight about this posting and Sam's letter from some of my mechanic friends at the base. I understand this has caused quite an uproar among the troops! I'm going to give everyone the facts Sam. My name is Greg Martin ee# 141789. Hired date 9-12-1988. I am one of the 3 men from FSC that has got caught up in this ugly, ugly mess. I would like to say I was hoping it would not come to this Sam. I called you last Saturday to give you one more chance to discuss this with us. You wont even call me back. So here are the FACTS !!!

Sam and Debbie were the first two interviews given.
Both received 36 months of credited experience.
Sam as electronics
Debbie as painter
There were no painter openings!!
Only 3 others were given the 36 months credited experience.
We were called by management of facilities and offered jobs and told to report at Faciltities on Monday Dec 17th. Don't go to Texas!!!
We have this on tape.
We were called back at around 6 pm Friday night by the same supervisor and told we must report to DFW on Monday now.
Sam needed to stay back on this to work on getting these jobs. On UBC.
Sam requested Debbie to stay back as well to assist in these matters.
The TWU allowed this UBC sometime before Friday Dec 14th. ( Really Strange I think.)
The other two men are single fathers trying to raise their kids. Their kids are now being raised by family members out of state.
We became out of station transfers on Wed Dec 17th.
Sam and Debbie stayed in station and got their award on Dec 26 or 27th.
During base closure when we were told nothing could be done for us because everyone would be out!
Mitch had more seniority than Debbie and qualified for the same position.
Mitch needed to be placed out of the way for her to get the award.
Sam and Debbie are the only two to get jobs out of 130+ clerks
Sam and Debbie both elected to exercise their seniority to bump a junior employee out of their job!
They both were awarded DFW, the same as the other 3.
We reported
They did not
All of us are listed as DFW employees. They should be out of station transfers as well.
They are supposed to bid next week with us. Their names are of the bid !!
They caused employees of Local 513 to lose their positions
Another unneccessary hardship causing another family to move, split up or go back to part time.
Sam has never offered any assistance to us other than to call Talent services.
He has never once offered to help us file a grievance to get the jobs we were awarded!
Are we truly being represented by you?
This has caused a tremendous hardship on all 3 of us!! Plus all the other FSC's that were told they had jobs as MSP's on the last day at work. Both emotionally and financially.
Sam's little letter just helped us out even more!
I dont think I will ever be brought back to Tulsa after this!
All we ever wanted was a fair and equal chance at those jobs!
These are the FACTS !!!
I'll let the readers decide if there was any type of abuse of power or position to gain an unfair advantage! I will not sit quietly and just let this go through for them.
I HOPE THAT THE MEMBERS OF 514 AND THE INTERNATIONAL DO THE RIGHT THING! THIS HAS WRONG ALL OVER IT.

Maybe I'm wrong. What do ya'll think? I'd love to hear your comments! Especially yours SAM !!
To all my friends in Tulsa, I'll see you later it has been great working with you all over the last 17+ years. I had a lot of great times. I just wish it would not have ended like it did. Greg

My advice to you is immediately file a grievance on this with Local 514 or 513 as soon as possible rather than pursuing the matter on this board. I believe that when the issue reaches the Title II and III officers at the International it will be reviewed properly and, if you are right, it will be remedied. Contrary to some of the nonsense posted here, I have heard that several International and Local officers have already raised questions about this arrangement.

I can’t tell you whether there is a contractual violation or not. That depends on issues such as the validity of the credited experience claimed by people putting in for transfers. However, I know everyone concerned has the right to have their rights under the contract resolved based on actual facts and documents instead of representations made by people on blogs who are obviously pursuing this issue for reasons other than your welfare.

 

[TWU informer]

My advice to you is immediately file a grievance on this with Local 514 or 513 as soon as possible rather than pursuing the matter on this board. I believe that when the issue reaches the Title II and III officers at the International it will be reviewed properly and, if you are right, it will be remedied. Contrary to some of the nonsense posted here, I have heard that several International and Local officers have already raised questions about this arrangement.

I can’t tell you whether there is a contractual violation or not. That depends on issues such as the validity of the credited experience claimed by people putting in for transfers. However, I know everyone concerned has the right to have their rights under the contract resolved based on actual facts and documents instead of representations made by people on blogs who are obviously pursuing this issue for reasons other than your welfare.

Who do you file a grievance with when it is your elected Local Officers violating the agreement to save their own ass? Local Management? I still say get a lawyer. At minimum refuse to authorize the TWU to act on your behalf and do not use the standard grievance from to file. Otherwise they will just withdraw the grievance and you will get nowhere.

 

[Kev3188]

How would you like to witness your negotiations?
thats right sit behind your negotiators while they are negotiating with the company!
You would be able to hear it for yourself instead of water downed rhetoric if anything at all from the TWU.
This is huge for any member to have the ability to do this, no one else has that....
no more waiting for the negotiating committee to release information, you are there!!!!!

Actually, some other unions do it, but not nearly enough. As we all work to rebuild the labor movement, this should become the rule, and not the exception...

 

[Realityck]

Who do you file a grievance with when it is your elected Local Officers violating the agreement to save their own ass? Local Management? I still say get a lawyer. At minimum refuse to authorize the TWU to act on your behalf and do not use the standard grievance from to file. Otherwise they will just withdraw the grievance and you will get nowhere.

This is truly bad advice if you are interested in getting relief. No court has the authority to review the conduct of the Company or the union concerning enforcement of the agreement until you have attempted to utilize the grievance process. The Company has no obligation to speak to an outside attorney concerning the merits of a grievance unless he has been authorized by the TWU to provide representation in the grievance process – and the same is true of all other unions on the property.

If you are concerned about whether Local 514 will process your grievance (and I am sure they will), then file your grievance with Local 513 who has no dog in the fight and no possible interest in depriving you of a job in Tulsa. As I said, I don’t know whether your rights have been violated or not. I do know that one of the only ways a court would entertain a lawsuit on this matter is if the Union decided your claim, and the rights of others, were based on representations made on this blog, rather than reviewing actual facts and documentation. So pursue this the way violations of the contract are supposed to be pursued. The people advising you otherwise are pursuing an agenda that has nothing to do with your rights.

 

[TWU informer]

Who do you file a grievance with when it is your elected Local Officers violating the agreement to save their own ass? Local Management? I still say get a lawyer. At minimum refuse to authorize the TWU to act on your behalf and do not use the standard grievance from to file. Otherwise they will just withdraw the grievance and you will get nowhere.

This is truly bad advice if you are interested in getting relief. No court has the authority to review the conduct of the Company or the union concerning enforcement of the agreement until you have attempted to utilize the grievance process. The Company has no obligation to speak to an outside attorney concerning the merits of a grievance unless he has been authorized by the TWU to provide representation in the grievance process – and the same is true of all other unions on the property.

If you are concerned about whether Local 514 will process your grievance (and I am sure they will), then file your grievance with Local 513 who has no dog in the fight and no possible interest in depriving you of a job in Tulsa. As I said, I don’t know whether your rights have been violated or not. I do know that one of the only ways a court would entertain a lawsuit on this matter is if the Union decided your claim, and the rights of others, were based on representations made on this blog, rather than reviewing actual facts and documentation. So pursue this the way violations of the contract are supposed to be pursued. The people advising you otherwise are pursuing an agenda that has nothing to do with your rights.

You are such a blind follower of the TWU corruption you did not even read the advice before you posted your ignorance. You can file a grievance using a lawyer, and without authorizing the TWU to act on your behalf by reusing to use the standard grievance form. Read the posting again and try lower your blind defense of the un-defendable. Again get a lawyer, file your grievance in writing without authorizing the TWU to act on your behalf, which is the statement you sign when using the standard form. But by all means get a lawyer. Lee Seham might be interested in helping with this one. It will get resolved alright, because the TWU will never allow discovery material and evidence to get in the hands of those that would share it.

 

[FLYNFISH]

This will be a very interesting couple of weeks as this thing unfolds. We hope to resolve this soon. Like I said before we just wanted a fair and equal chance at the job openings. We will not stop until this is made right! I understand this is spreading like wildfire. The next monthly meeting should be a good one!!!