Release Us!

[Bob Owens]

I have never seen Sam Cirri in TULE on afternoon shift at 1D. I do know that he has visited with day shift, but not about the contract. It was concerning 7-day coverage on one dock.

In all fairness I would say that there are quite a few guys between LGA and JFK who could say the same thing about me, and I have a lot less guys.

 

[Bob Owens]

Bob, you have nothing to lose with requesting to be released and waiting for the NMB in leveling the playing field. But, let's all face reality, the NMB will not release us! However, they will release AA, when AA decides to hurt their own operations and customers. At that point, "LOOK OUT" because AA will implement whatever regressive working conditions they planned during negotiations.

They certainly wont release us if we dont even ask.
They can, and we will have to fight back.

CS's...Gone!....

They can do that without being released, look at marketing.

4/10's...Gone!...

They can do that too. Look at the contract.

terminations up the ass!

They still have to have just cause so be smart and you will be fine.

Please, don't underestimate the enemy....especially the college boys in this company.

I dont, what we have to look at is the "cost vs benifit" of going to war. What would the company gain, and what would it cost them?

There's lots of members that haven't experienced the reality of Self-Help. The only thing I will say....Jeff Brundage was right in one respect.....there will be lots of casualties.

Burdette said that and he was referring to increasing the ASMS and class II and III stations.

The union has a fiduciary responsibilty to the members......is the union prepared to handle all the chaos that comes with Self-Help? That includes chaos from members towards the union? After all, the TWU isn't the most loved organization out there, right?

We have to be. If the Union is fighting for a fair paycheck and restoring benifits would you side with the company or the union?

 

[Overspeed]

Bob, you have nothing to lose with requesting to be released and waiting for the NMB in leveling the playing field. But, let's all face reality, the NMB will not release us! However, they will release AA, when AA decides to hurt their own operations and customers. At that point, "LOOK OUT" because AA will implement whatever regressive working conditions they planned during negotiations. CS's...Gone!....4/10's...Gone!...terminations up the ass! Please, don't underestimate the enemy....especially the college boys in this company.

There's lots of members that haven't experienced the reality of Self-Help. The only thing I will say....Jeff Brundage was right in one respect.....there will be lots of casualties. The union has a fiduciary responsibilty to the members......is the union prepared to handle all the chaos that comes with Self-Help? That includes chaos from members towards the union? After all, the TWU isn't the most loved organization out there, right?

Remember this is a union, if only in name rby the way some so-called leaders act. It's not Bob's call and he is a part of committee that reports to a larger committee that has the final say. When people that are on the negotiating committee speak openly about how disorganized the commitee is and all the infighting going on they hurt each and every member on the floor. Bob is being very irresponsible by broadcasting his agenda, strategy, and the internal thoughts of the committee on the internet. Weel, Brundage, and mediator Kane probably read this or have knowledge of what goes on this bulletin board.

Agreed on the company ramping up rule enforcement. We have a slew of recently recalled and hired people. I doubt they will participate in any job action. This union is filled with IGM'ers, unfortunately we have to watch our own backs, do you really trust every other member to toe the line? Unions need to educate the members on what a union should be to work. It starts with unity on the floor.

 

[High Speed Steel]

It would not be fair or accurate to say that I dont have any support on the committee. The update posted above was not written by the committee, it was written by Don Videtich with some input by Steve Gilboy, and some by me.

I've consistently received support from several members of the committee. If not then more than likely the new hires would not have a pension, everyone under 50 would not have retiree medical, ASMs would be working along side A&Ps, many Class II and III stations would be de-staffed of Title I &II, the bases would have 4/7s and many other concessions.

There was concern that the letter I sent out to around 100 of the people on my E-mail list that started this thread was the position of the Negotiating committee. Some were particularly upset claiming that I had violated Negotiating Committee Bylaws; a set of rules put in place without membership consent, and demanded that I either retract the E-mail or resign. I refused to do either. I did volunteer to write an update clarifying that the E-mail was only the opinion of the author, me, and not the committee, and then Don assigned Gilboy to work on it with me, for obvious reasons. Don requested that we make it brief. Gilboy and I exchanged a few brief E-mails and I basically said it was o.k. except I requested that one line be removed and left it at that. That all occurred on Tuesday. On Wednesday I contacted Jim Little and he agreed that there was no need for me to put a retraction and to let it be. Also on Wednesday I had Membership meetings at JFK/LGA from 7: am to 16:30 pm, after that met with members that evening at EWR then at around Midnight drove to PHL arriving there at around 1:30 am Thursday, slept four hours had a meeting with members in PHL at 7am, then drove back to New York, getting back at around 2pm. Fell asleep for three hours, went to a ball game that evening with the family and had an EB meeting Friday. I figured I had till 1pm CST (2pm EST) to do a final read of the update. I'd read Gilboy’s last response where he took out the line in question but did not reply hoping to get some time to think it over a little more. Later during a break I checked my e-mails and saw that Don had rewritten the whole thing and turned the two paragraph update into a two page indictment. Past experience has been, especially from Stores Negotiations, is that in the end Don will modify these things as he sees fit anyway, like how they stuffed all the ballots with the subtle VOTE YES insert, without committee consent or even notification. So I let it ride. This isn't the first attack, from the orchestrated side show where two former MIA officials threatened me with physical violence, to where a former AFW official filed charges against me, to the snide remarks and being called a cancer by a former DFW official, to where a former Tulsa President warned me that I'd "crossed the line" and to "Stay tune(d)". I've become accustomed to it and enjoyed how the electoral process makes the necessary, but very slow, corrections.

Allot of good it did to call Little and ask for forgiveness. He agreed with your request to not be required to retract your e-mail and said; let it be.... and then today this post appears, you just can't help yourself huh?

 

[Duke787]

Remember this is a union, if only in name rby the way some so-called leaders act. It's not Bob's call and he is a part of committee that reports to a larger committee that has the final say. When people that are on the negotiating committee speak openly about how disorganized the commitee is and all the infighting going on they hurt each and every member on the floor. Bob is being very irresponsible by broadcasting his agenda, strategy, and the internal thoughts of the committee on the internet. Weel, Brundage, and mediator Kane probably read this or have knowledge of what goes on this bulletin board.

Agreed on the company ramping up rule enforcement. We have a slew of recently recalled and hired people. I doubt they will participate in any job action. This union is filled with IGM'ers, unfortunately we have to watch our own backs, do you really trust every other member to toe the line? Unions need to educate the members on what a union should be to work. It starts with unity on the floor.

I agree that Bob should shut up, if he wants to communicate with the members, that is what a union meeting is for. Not an open forum.

I would add that the TWU needs to educate the members what a release would mean, and what the members need to do to ready themselves for such an event. Correct me if I'm wrong, but at the end of a 30 day cooling off period, couldn't the company just impose a contract and we can take it or strike.

 

[TWU informer]

Remember this is a union, if only in name rby the way some so-called leaders act. It's not Bob's call and he is a part of committee that reports to a larger committee that has the final say. When people that are on the negotiating committee speak openly about how disorganized the commitee is and all the infighting going on they hurt each and every member on the floor. Bob is being very irresponsible by broadcasting his agenda, strategy, and the internal thoughts of the committee on the internet. Weel, Brundage, and mediator Kane probably read this or have knowledge of what goes on this bulletin board.

Agreed on the company ramping up rule enforcement. We have a slew of recently recalled and hired people. I doubt they will participate in any job action. This union is filled with IGM'ers, unfortunately we have to watch our own backs, do you really trust every other member to toe the line? Unions need to educate the members on what a union should be to work. It starts with unity on the floor.

To even begin to be a "Union" the supreme authority would have to be the membership. Having unaccountable, unelected leaders, and members that refer to the union as "they" is a far cry from "union". Even the current contract languages regarding no strike-no lock out clause expose the truthful problem within this "union". The language reads something to the effect that "Neither the Union, nor it's members" when discussing job actions. What kind of "union" would have language in the contract that makes a seperation between the "union" and the "members"?You think I am kidding? Go read it for yourself, at one time I also thought the members were the "union", but not in the TWU. And after years of negotiations, and a miserably failed T/A by the out-of-touch leaders (authority), attempting to educate or create "union" now is too LITTLE, too late don't you think? There is a card drive going to replace the current "union", there appears to be less than half but a large group supporting this change. There appears to be an even larger division between the Line AMT vs the Overhaul AMT than ever in the past. There have been complete disregards within this "union" regarding membership votes pertaining to building of a new "union" hall. There has been a Federal Court case providing proof that the members are NOT the supreme authority of this "union. The largest local (514) in the system is in the red averaging $25,000.00 per month because less than 1% of the members still bother go to the "union" meeting and then they vote themselves free tickets to sporting events instead of member "education". They sell these tickets for extra income to supplement the failures of this "union". The ultimate "I've got mine" vote for the tickets, then sell a view to get your union dues back.

In other words, this "union" doesn't even know within it's structure and leadership, the real definition of "unionism" and allowing "them" to educate will just create more screw offs, more unaccountable members and leaders, and unity is not even on the agenda.

While the company plays us like a cheap pawn shop banjo made in taiwan, some believe that with a release from the NMB, all these warts and issues will suddenly become irrelevant and the playing field will be leveled. I think just the opposite is true myself. Unity and strength will never come from outside the group, unity and strength will never be suddenly created by an act from outside the group, the strength if it ever returns will come from within. This is why the Mechanic and Related group keeps blaming someone or something else for our failures. Because it is difficult, if not impossible to admit the truth. The list of blame keeps moving.

Blamed the Bus Drivers of New York (They out numbered us)
Blamed the Fleet Service Clerks ( TWU gave self determination- Seperate Locals/Negotiations)
Blamed the Unelected Leaders (Failed Attempts to Change for the 30 years of Constitutional Conventions)
Blamed the Republicans (There is no difference between a Democrat/Republican They are all rich and against the middle class)
Blamed the Majority of the membership working in Tulsa
Blamed the $160,000.00 per year Secretaries of the TWU
Blamed the National Mediation Board (Did screw us out of a representation elelction)
Blamed the non-licensed unskilled members.
Blamed the fact we are not respected ( Got AMT Days, and Bust of Charley Taylor, but we are still weak)

You get the point?

Could very well be that this isn't a "union" afterall, instead it is a dues collection agency full of back stabbers, and company suck asses to which the leadership is the experts and that leadership trickles down and creates more of those type of members. The minority of real union men keep making up these excuses and attempting to change the problems listed above, but we still remain the weak and docile group on the property and in the industry.

Yes, I am cynical. Yes I am angry. But I don't see that pretending as if we are strong as anything more than either another TWU bluff or one hell of a serious fantasy that could jeopardize our futures, or retirement, and even more of the same detriment to the profession that has been coming from this "union" since 1983.

 

[aapitbull]

To even begin to be a "Union" the supreme authority would have to be the membership. Having unaccountable, unelected leaders, and members that refer to the union as "they" is a far cry from "union". Even the current contract languages regarding no strike-no lock out clause expose the truthful problem within this "union". The language reads something to the effect that "Neither the Union, nor it's members" when discussing job actions. What kind of "union" would have language in the contract that makes a seperation between the "union" and the "members"?You think I am kidding? Go read it for yourself, at one time I also thought the members were the "union", but not in the TWU. And after years of negotiations, and a miserably failed T/A by the out-of-touch leaders (authority), attempting to educate or create "union" now is too LITTLE, too late don't you think? There is a card drive going to replace the current "union", there appears to be less than half but a large group supporting this change. There appears to be an even larger division between the Line AMT vs the Overhaul AMT than ever in the past. There have been complete disregards within this "union" regarding membership votes pertaining to building of a new "union" hall. There has been a Federal Court case providing proof that the members are NOT the supreme authority of this "union. The largest local (514) in the system is in the red averaging $25,000.00 per month because less than 1% of the members still bother go to the "union" meeting and then they vote themselves free tickets to sporting events instead of member "education". They sell these tickets for extra income to supplement the failures of this "union". The ultimate "I've got mine" vote for the tickets, then sell a view to get your union dues back.

In other words, this "union" doesn't even know within it's structure and leadership, the real definition of "unionism" and allowing "them" to educate will just create more screw offs, more unaccountable members and leaders, and unity is not even on the agenda.

While the company plays us like a cheap pawn shop banjo made in taiwan, some believe that with a release from the NMB, all these warts and issues will suddenly become irrelevant and the playing field will be leveled. I think just the opposite is true myself. Unity and strength will never come from outside the group, unity and strength will never be suddenly created by an act from outside the group, the strength if it ever returns will come from within. This is why the Mechanic and Related group keeps blaming someone or something else for our failures. Because it is difficult, if not impossible to admit the truth. The list of blame keeps moving.

Blamed the Bus Drivers of New York (They out numbered us)
Blamed the Fleet Service Clerks ( TWU gave self determination- Seperate Locals/Negotiations)
Blamed the Unelected Leaders (Failed Attempts to Change for the 30 years of Constitutional Conventions)
Blamed the Republicans (There is no difference between a Democrat/Republican They are all rich and against the middle class)
Blamed the Majority of the membership working in Tulsa
Blamed the $160,000.00 per year Secretaries of the TWU
Blamed the National Mediation Board (Did screw us out of a representation elelction)
Blamed the non-licensed unskilled members.
Blamed the fact we are not respected ( Got AMT Days, and Bust of Charley Taylor, but we are still weak)

You get the point?

Could very well be that this isn't a "union" afterall, instead it is a dues collection agency full of back stabbers, and company suck asses to which the leadership is the experts and that leadership trickles down and creates more of those type of members. The minority of real union men keep making up these excuses and attempting to change the problems listed above, but we still remain the weak and docile group on the property and in the industry.

Yes, I am cynical. Yes I am angry. But I don't see that pretending as if we are strong as anything more than either another TWU bluff or one hell of a serious fantasy that could jeopardize our futures, or retirement, and even more of the same detriment to the profession that has been coming from this "union" since 1983.

I could not be more in agreement with what you just posted but the question still remains what shall WE do?

 

[odie01]

To even begin to be a "Union" the supreme authority would have to be the membership. Having unaccountable, unelected leaders, and members that refer to the union as "they" is a far cry from "union". Even the current contract languages regarding no strike-no lock out clause expose the truthful problem within this "union". The language reads something to the effect that "Neither the Union, nor it's members" when discussing job actions. What kind of "union" would have language in the contract that makes a seperation between the "union" and the "members"?You think I am kidding? Go read it for yourself, at one time I also thought the members were the "union", but not in the TWU. And after years of negotiations, and a miserably failed T/A by the out-of-touch leaders (authority), attempting to educate or create "union" now is too LITTLE, too late don't you think? There is a card drive going to replace the current "union", there appears to be less than half but a large group supporting this change. There appears to be an even larger division between the Line AMT vs the Overhaul AMT than ever in the past. There have been complete disregards within this "union" regarding membership votes pertaining to building of a new "union" hall. There has been a Federal Court case providing proof that the members are NOT the supreme authority of this "union. The largest local (514) in the system is in the red averaging $25,000.00 per month because less than 1% of the members still bother go to the "union" meeting and then they vote themselves free tickets to sporting events instead of member "education". They sell these tickets for extra income to supplement the failures of this "union". The ultimate "I've got mine" vote for the tickets, then sell a view to get your union dues back.

In other words, this "union" doesn't even know within it's structure and leadership, the real definition of "unionism" and allowing "them" to educate will just create more screw offs, more unaccountable members and leaders, and unity is not even on the agenda.

While the comapny plays us like a cheap pawn shop banjo made in taiwan, some believe that with a release from the NMB, all these warts and issues will suddenly become irrelevant and the playing field will be leveled. I think just the opposite is true myself. Unity and strength will never come from outside the group, unity and strength will never be suddenly created by an act from outside the group, the strength if it ever returns will come from within. This is why the Mechanic and Related group keeps blaming someone or something else for our failures. Because it is difficult, if not impossible to admit the truth. The list of blame keeps moving.

Blamed the Bus Drivers of New York (They out numbered us)
Blamed the Fleet Service Clerks ( TWU gave self determination- Seperate Locals/Negotiations)
Blamed the Unelected Leaders (Failed Attempts to Change for the 30 years of Constitutional Conventions)
Blamed the Republicans (There is no difference between a Democrat/Republican They are all rich and against the middle class)
Blamed the Majority of the membership working in Tulsa
Blamed the $160,000.00 per year Secretaries of the TWU
Blamed the National Mediation Board (Did screw us out of a representation elelction)
Blamed the non-licensed unskilled members.
Blamed the fact we are not respected ( Got AMT Days, and Bust of Charley Taylor, but we are still weak)

You get the point?

Could very well be that this isn't a "union" afterall, instead it is a dues collection agency full of back stabbers, and company suck asses to which the leadership is the experts and that leadership trickles down and creates more of those type of members. The minority of real union men keep making up these excuses and attempting to change the problems listed above, but we still remain the weak and docile group on the property and in the industry.

Yes, I am cynical. Yes I am angry. But I don't see any remote possibility that pretending as if we are strong as anything more than either another TWU bluff or one hell of a serious fantasy that could jeopardize our futures, or retirement, and even more of the same detriment to the profession that has been coming from this "union" since 1983.

GD Informer, all you had to say is this union lacks leadership because the international has control of our contract, and we have a bunch of bought off, local union presidents, that don't know how to lead !! Add in all the different title groups and classifications, and you have a union that will forever fight amongst themselves and be very hard to dismantle or replace. Whomever set up this monster twu ATD should be commended, because it was set up to be permanent and almost impossible to replace, although it was in the bag with AMFA, but again, the company and the twu added dead people and retirees to the eligible voters. What the Fck is wrong with Tulsa? As long as you guys are employed, Koombiya the who world is beautiful. I'm tired of you blaming the rest of the system for not being able to change unions, when we only had 20% signiture participation for the AMFA drive and AMP drive. Retire or get on board, because the rest of the system is tired of watching HEE-Haw with the Tulsa card drives. AA will shut you guys down with the twu, IBT, AMFA or AMP, grow some balls.

 

[High Speed Steel]

I could not be more in agreement with what you just posted but the question still remains what shall WE do?

I know, I know, go sit it in the Truck...

 

[paul1]

I agree that Bob should shut up, if he wants to communicate with the members, that is what a union meeting is for. Not an open forum.

I would add that the TWU needs to educate the members what a release would mean, and what the members need to do to ready themselves for such an event. Correct me if I'm wrong, but at the end of a 30 day cooling off period, couldn't the company just impose a contract and we can take it or strike.

If it wasn't for bob opening up, to tell us whats going on, we would really be in the dark. When is the last time you have been to a union meeting? When we rejected the t/a what did are union local do? nothing nothing nothing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Are local is more worried about setting up local events, then the contract. status quo is ok with are local, and every other local! Will soon be voting on worse back door deal!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

educate the members what a release would mean. LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You and I standing on the picket line, watching AA planes fly by.

 

[Bob Owens]

Allot of good it did to call Little and ask for forgiveness. He agreed with your request to not be required to retract your e-mail and said; let it be.... and then today this post appears, you just can't help yourself huh?

I would not say I asked for forgiveness, after all asking the members to participate and contact their leaders should not be an offense should it?

 

[paul1]

orange card display! you really had them wondering TWU. Then you go post it on all the boards, telling them what it meant.

 

[Bob Owens]

I agree that Bob should shut up, if he wants to communicate with the members, that is what a union meeting is for. Not an open forum.

I would add that the TWU needs to educate the members what a release would mean, and what the members need to do to ready themselves for such an event. Correct me if I'm wrong, but at the end of a 30 day cooling off period, couldn't the company just impose a contract and we can take it or strike.

Not that you asked but I hear a lot more people thanking me for putting stuff out than criticizing me. Usually those who complain are those who have something to hide as its been my experience that there is never a shortage of Yes men on these committees, (hoping to land an International position no doubt) and they are usually the ones that dont want their behavior revealed to the members. I love how those who complain the most about the members not participating are the same ones who feel that the members should be kept in the dark. Expecting blind loyalty as they sell them out.

The fact is that most members dont come to meetings, and one reason is they dont have much free time thanks to the lousy job we've done representing them, so what should we do, keep them in the dark or find another way to reach them?

Some claim that nothing should be put out because they dont want the company to find out, well guess what? If you have 100 guys at a meeting one thing you can be sure of is at least one of them runs to management and tells them everything thats said. Cant change that, never will after all the company picks the membership not the Union. Even before Unions existed there were always spies and rats.

Yes on the 30th day the company can impose if they chose to, and we can strike, or resort to other means of self help. Thats what every union in the private sector thats not under the RLA faces at the end of every contract. Welcome to Unionism, if its too much for you to handle then you should go to a non-union company or into management where the company can impose terms whever they want. No sense in sticking around pretending to be a Union man if you arent prepared to act like one.

 

[Overspeed]

It would not be fair or accurate to say that I dont have any support on the committee. The update posted above was not written by the committee, it was written by Don Videtich with some input by Steve Gilboy, and some by me.

I've consistently received support from several members of the committee. If not then more than likely the new hires would not have a pension, everyone under 50 would not have retiree medical, ASMs would be working along side A&Ps, many Class II and III stations would be de-staffed of Title I &II, the bases would have 4/7s and many other concessions.

There was concern that the letter I sent out to around 100 of the people on my E-mail list that started this thread was the position of the Negotiating committee. Some were particularly upset claiming that I had violated Negotiating Committee Bylaws; a set of rules put in place without membership consent, and demanded that I either retract the E-mail or resign. I refused to do either. I did volunteer to write an update clarifying that the E-mail was only the opinion of the author, me, and not the committee, and then Don assigned Gilboy to work on it with me, for obvious reasons. Don requested that we make it brief. Gilboy and I exchanged a few brief E-mails and I basically said it was o.k. except I requested that one line be removed and left it at that. That all occurred on Tuesday. On Wednesday I contacted Jim Little and he agreed that there was no need for me to put a retraction and to let it be. Also on Wednesday I had Membership meetings at JFK/LGA from 7: am to 16:30 pm, after that met with members that evening at EWR then at around Midnight drove to PHL arriving there at around 1:30 am Thursday, slept four hours had a meeting with members in PHL at 7am, then drove back to New York, getting back at around 2pm. Fell asleep for three hours, went to a ball game that evening with the family and had an EB meeting Friday. I figured I had till 1pm CST (2pm EST) to do a final read of the update. I'd read Gilboy’s last response where he took out the line in question but did not reply hoping to get some time to think it over a little more. Later during a break I checked my e-mails and saw that Don had rewritten the whole thing and turned the two paragraph update into a two page indictment. Past experience has been, especially from Stores Negotiations, is that in the end Don will modify these things as he sees fit anyway, like how they stuffed all the ballots with the subtle VOTE YES insert, without committee consent or even notification. So I let it ride. This isn't the first attack, from the orchestrated side show where two former MIA officials threatened me with physical violence, to where a former AFW official filed charges against me, to the snide remarks and being called a cancer by a former DFW official, to where a former Tulsa President warned me that I'd "crossed the line" and to "Stay tune(d)". I've become accustomed to it and enjoyed how the electoral process makes the necessary, but very slow, corrections.

Another example of why you should not be posting on the internet. A play by play of how screwed up the Committee is. That's awesome! Keep it up. Isn't this disclosing internal business of the Union?

 

[Duke787]

Not that I asked but I hear a lot more people thanking me for putting stuff out than criticizing me. Usually those who complain are those who have something to hide as its been my experience that there is never a shortage of Yes men on these committees, (hoping to land an International position no doubt) and they are usually the ones that dont want their behavior revealed to the members.

Yes on the 30th day the company can impose if they chose to, and we can strike, or resort to other means of self help. Thats what every union in the private sector thats not under the RLA faces at the end of their contract. Welcome to Unionism, if its too much then you should go to a non-union company where the company can impose terms whever they want.

So basically, no one else on the negotiating committee has any integrity but you?

No other negotiator is trying to get us a pay raise but you?

All the other committee members are looking for an international union job, but you?

That is some blatant disrespect for your colleagues. But I do appreciate the hard work you and the other negotiaters have put in, it can't be easy to put up with all the different opinions.

I do believe that when the committee talks it should be with one voice and all on the same page.