Release Us!

[Duke787]

If it wasn't for bob opening up, to tell us whats going on, we would really be in the dark. When is the last time you have been to a union meeting? When we rejected the t/a what did are union local do? nothing nothing nothing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Are local is more worried about setting up local events, then the contract. status quo is ok with are local, and every other local! Will soon be voting on worse back door deal!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

educate the members what a release would mean. LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You and I standing on the picket line, watching AA planes fly by.

When Bob opens up, is that Bob's opinion or the stance of the negotiation committee, as Bob has said before, some of his comments are based on speculation. When speaking to the members the negotiators should speak as one.

Well instead of complaining about the local, maybe you should run for office and you can change the world. Gilboy didn't even have to run against anyone during the last election. It's easy to sit back and say this is what I would do. I think Bob is finding that out now with the AA negotiators.

You are correct in one aspect, the TWU needs to comunicate with the members more then it does.

 

[Bob Owens]

So basically, no one else on the negotiating committee has any integrity but you?

No other negotiator is trying to get us a pay raise but you?

All the other committee members are looking for an international union job, but you?

Of course not, just the Yes men. I'm just the only one that posts under my own name. I've been doing that for ten years.

That is some blatant disrespect for your colleagues. But I do appreciate the hard work you and the other negotiaters have put in, it can't be easy to put up with all the different opinions.

Therin lies the question, are we there to represent ourselves or the members?

I heard one former committee member claim that 95% of his guys would vote for the agreement that he voted YES for, and 2 out of three voted NO. Well if more members had notified the International maybe they would not have spent all that money printing up the books and having the vote because he obviously was out of touch with his members.

The problem is that no committe member represents the entire group, nor can the membership determine which members had it right and which had it wrong if its all kept secret. The International is automatically the chair and spokesprsen. While all the committee members are elected by each individual local the Charperson and spokesman is not, and I've seen them twist, bend and disregard bylaws to get what they want such as when they removed JR as the chair.

I do believe that when the committee talks it should be with one voice and all on the same page.

I have no problem with that concept when it comes to speaking to the compay, but not the members.

Some say that all this infighting makes the Union look bad, well the only reason why there is so much infighting is because the International has made it clear they feel we should have accepted the TA and it seems as if they are trying to punish the members and those leaders who were against the TA for not voting it in by not putting real pressure on the company to move in negotiations. If that is the case, and the International appears to be losing control then that would make the company nervous because nobody is revolting because they think the International is being too hard on the company, they are revolting because they think the International is being too soft on them.

If the International is truly committed to getting us what we have on the table the infighting also helps them, because then they can tell the company how they are holding back the dogs and the company needs to move before all hell breaks loose. Either way having people fighting for more does not hurt the Union.

 

[TWU informer]

I could not be more in agreement with what you just posted but the question still remains what shall WE do?

I would be accused of being in violation of Federal Law and Company Policy, if I answered that question honestly, and have no desire to go through another round of those claims. I am no longer interested in taking a risk or even a stand for weak and stupid fools that have not enough brains to even realize when someone is trying to help them out, and instead listen to the master's fear mongering B.S.

Cowards outnumber those with courage and will never be converted to militants until it is too late, if ever at all.

Then they will complain, blame, and bicker....sound familiar?

Any worthwhile transformation will take longer than I have left. And I am not convinced that available options currently on the table would not be more harmful than helpful to my skill group and my employment.

I think even talking of a riot on the TWU Constitutional Convention floor is liekly a violation of some dufus control law.

Let me just put it this way. What needs to be done requires more militants than is currently available.
So wait and see if when the water starts chilling the cowards nuts, does he relaize there is a hole in the boat, or remain a coward until drowning is likely.

In other words, with the available resources, I dont have any answers or any ideas regarding that small problem anymore. In the past I have joined you and the others in a fantasy quest of a union with strength and courage, dominated by democratic principles. I have now resolved myself to live in reality.

I would highly recomend that you begin focusing on your family and the potential for country wide economic caused chaos. Prepare yourself for that possible scenario instead of the short sighted view of AA/TWU and A&P Mechanic work. It is my opinion that the current contractual demise is nothing compared to the .... how does the TWU stooge always put it? THE BIG PICTURE! To be more specific, broaden your persepctive of the issue of working man's struggles. and prepare for the potential of a much larger problem. And don't get caught without some knowledge and resources to survive that potential bump in the road.

No I am not to the black helicopters version yet. But I do find that preparing myself is much easier than preparing others who have no interest in preparation or even a belief that something might actually be wrong to being with.

 

[odie01]

Cowards outnumber those with courage and will never be converted to militants until it is too late, if ever at all.

I believe the ratio of cowards is the highest in Tulsa. Data provided from previous card counts, AMFA, AMP, whomever, you guys are happy, so shut up.

 

[toroshark]

It would not be fair or accurate to say that I dont have any support on the committee. The update posted above was not written by the committee, it was written by Don Videtich with some input by Steve Gilboy, and some by me.

I've consistently received support from several members of the committee. If not then more than likely the new hires would not have a pension, everyone under 50 would not have retiree medical, ASMs would be working along side A&Ps, many Class II and III stations would be de-staffed of Title I &II, the bases would have 4/7s and many other concessions.

There was concern that the letter I sent out to around 100 of the people on my E-mail list that started this thread was the position of the Negotiating committee. Some were particularly upset claiming that I had violated Negotiating Committee Bylaws; a set of rules put in place without membership consent, and demanded that I either retract the E-mail or resign. I refused to do either. I did volunteer to write an update clarifying that the E-mail was only the opinion of the author, me, and not the committee, and then Don assigned Gilboy to work on it with me, for obvious reasons. Don requested that we make it brief. Gilboy and I exchanged a few brief E-mails and I basically said it was o.k. except I requested that one line be removed and left it at that. That all occurred on Tuesday. On Wednesday I contacted Jim Little and he agreed that there was no need for me to put a retraction and to let it be. Also on Wednesday I had Membership meetings at JFK/LGA from 7: am to 16:30 pm, after that met with members that evening at EWR then at around Midnight drove to PHL arriving there at around 1:30 am Thursday, slept four hours had a meeting with members in PHL at 7am, then drove back to New York, getting back at around 2pm. Fell asleep for three hours, went to a ball game that evening with the family and had an EB meeting Friday. I figured I had till 1pm CST (2pm EST) to do a final read of the update. I'd read Gilboy’s last response where he took out the line in question but did not reply hoping to get some time to think it over a little more. Later during a break I checked my e-mails and saw that Don had rewritten the whole thing and turned the two paragraph update into a two page indictment. Past experience has been, especially from Stores Negotiations, is that in the end Don will modify these things as he sees fit anyway, like how they stuffed all the ballots with the subtle VOTE YES insert, without committee consent or even notification. So I let it ride. This isn't the first attack, from the orchestrated side show where two former MIA officials threatened me with physical violence, to where a former AFW official filed charges against me, to the snide remarks and being called a cancer by a former DFW official, to where a former Tulsa President warned me that I'd "crossed the line" and to "Stay tune(d)". I've become accustomed to it and enjoyed how the electoral process makes the necessary, but very slow, corrections.

If it was not so painful to the membership, Phat Don's antics would be quite comical. I remember when he would come down 35 to visit us at the outstation. It was funny to watch this narcissistic cretin run his pie-hole trying to act like Hoffa, when in fact it was obvious that he was "I got mine" all the way. When is the last time his phatness had a tool in his hand on a aircraft? How long did his phatness turn a wrench at AA before he became a company tool?

 

[TWU informer]

I believe the ratio of cowards is the highest in Tulsa. Data provided from previous card counts, AMFA, AMP, whomever, you guys are happy, so shut up.

No simpleton, the cowards outnumber the courageous throughout organized labor. You can bang away at your blame Tulsa drum all you want. As for shutting up, I was asked a question and thought I was entitled to speak my opinion. Your "shut up" statements lead me to believe you are Steve Luis, TWU International Officer, or at least closely related. You need to add in the "pie hole" part though to really compete for an appointment. Try it like this Odie "Shut Your Pie Hole", then you will really be in contention. Or better yet, get the moderator to shut me up since I tell the truth and you can't handle the truth without a typical simpleton emotional outburst.

Do you also wear a hammer and sicle on your under garments?

 

[odie01]

No simpleton, the cowards outnumber the courageous throughout organized labor. You can bang away at your blame Tulsa drum all you want. As for shutting up, I was asked a question and thought I was entitled to speak my opinion. Your "shut up" statements lead me to believe you are Steve Luis, TWU International Officer, or at least closely related. You need to add in the "pie hole" part though to really compete for an appointment. Try it like this Odie "Shut Your Pie Hole", then you will really be in contention. Or better yet, get the moderator to shut me up since I tell the truth and you can't handle the truth without a typical simpleton emotional outburst.

Do you also wear a hammer and sicle on your under garments?

Spin it, Jerkweed. That's what you do best!

 

[toroshark]

When Bob opens up, is that Bob's opinion or the stance of the negotiation committee, as Bob has said before, some of his comments are based on speculation. When speaking to the members the negotiators should speak as one.

Well instead of complaining about the local, maybe you should run for office and you can change the world. Gilboy didn't even have to run against anyone during the last election. It's easy to sit back and say this is what I would do. I think Bob is finding that out now with the AA negotiators.

You are correct in one aspect, the TWU needs to comunicate with the members more then it does.

I think a basic understanding of the written word would leave one to the obvious conclusion that it is opinion. I for one don't mind the opinion. Without it we would only get the information that his Phatness and the other pariahs would spoon feed us.

 

[strikeforce]

I agree that Bob should shut up, if he wants to communicate with the members, that is what a union meeting is for. Not an open forum.

I would add that the TWU needs to educate the members what a release would mean, and what the members need to do to ready themselves for such an event. Correct me if I'm wrong, but at the end of a 30 day cooling off period, couldn't the company just impose a contract and we can take it or strike.

They may also decide to a Lockout after 30 days. I believe America West did that many years ago to their M&E group.

It would definitely be a contentious 30 day period to say the least. I definitely agree that the union needs to educate the guys on what to expect during the 30 day cooling off period, and after that time, as well. There are lots of risks associated with asking to be released.....however, I do agree with Bob in that we need to at least show AA that we're serious about gaining the wage and benefit increases we're seeking. There are other methods of doing this, but I don't see alternative measures coming from the union. After 3 years of negotiating......the union is certainly not in any hurry with preparations of war with AA, especially with committee members running around asking to be released. August 15th would come very quickly if the NMB decides to release us on July 15th. Are you prepared for battle?

 

[Overspeed]

So basically, no one else on the negotiating committee has any integrity but you?

No other negotiator is trying to get us a pay raise but you?

All the other committee members are looking for an international union job, but you?

That is some blatant disrespect for your colleagues. But I do appreciate the hard work you and the other negotiaters have put in, it can't be easy to put up with all the different opinions.

I do believe that when the committee talks it should be with one voice and all on the same page.

Amen brother!

The committee should speak with one voice. You get your time to speak while the committee is in session. When you leave it is in solidarity. If the person can't work within that process they should either try to change the process but work within the one provided for the time being. How can we be taken seriously as professionals when we our leadership acts unprofessional.

 

[strikeforce]

Therin lies the question, are we there to represent ourselves or the members?

I heard one former committee member claim that 95% of his guys would vote for the agreement that he voted YES for, and 2 out of three voted NO. Well if more members had notified the International maybe they would not have spent all that money printing up the books and having the vote because he obviously was out of touch with his members.

And there under lies the problem.....the presidents think they know how the membership will vote WITHOUT conferring with their membership. This has happened time and time again. When the negotiating committee comes to an understanding with the company regarding a T/A, Why not bring it to the membership first, and then the membership will instruct the local president on whether to bring it forward or not? Makes lots of sense doesn't it, Bob? Maybe this should be part of the negotiating rules with the Intl and AA. I've got a better idea, why don't you make a motion to incorporate this process in the negotiating rules during the July session? Then let us know who voted against this, so we can vote them out in the next election.

 

[Frank Szabo]

And there under lies the problem.....the presidents think they know how the membership will vote WITHOUT conferring with their membership. This has happened time and time again. When the negotiating committee comes to an understanding with the company regarding a T/A, Why not bring it to the membership first, and then the membership will instruct the local president on whether to bring it forward or not? Makes lots of sense doesn't it, Bob? Maybe this should be part of the negotiating rules with the Intl and AA. I've got a better idea, why don't you make a motion to incorporate this process in the negotiating rules during the July session? Then let us know who voted against this, so we can vote them out in the next election.

Excellent idea but far too much like "Democracy" for that to happen. Why should the International agree to let the membership get involved? We're nothing but trouble.

 

[High Speed Steel]

I would not say I asked for forgiveness, after all asking the members to participate and contact their leaders should not be an offense should it?

I wonder how many of the 100 e-mail participants that you said you forwarded your letter to actually included those who are elected to serve on the negotiating committee. If any at all received the notification they had no voice in the matter because you had already made their decision for them!

Looks like your one man show is nearing its end bob....

 

[TWU informer]

I wonder how many of the 100 e-mail participants that you said you forwarded your letter to actually included those who are elected to serve on the negotiating committee. If any at all received the notification they had no voice in the matter, because you had already made their decision for them!

Looks like your one man show is nearing it's end bob....

They are not going to get rid of Bob. They are going to blame him.

 

[High Speed Steel]

They are not going to get rid of Bob. They are going to blame him.

Perfect.... B)