Release Us!

[AAmechanic]

I just read this over on TWU's negotiation website:

M&R Negotiations Update - 07/01/11
By: AlanOn: 07/01/2011 1102In: M&R Committee Updates
Dear Brothers and Sisters;

We thought it would be appropriate that we send out a brief update to the membership on where we are at in the mediation process. One of the reasons for the update is there has been information circulated to some of our members in the system urging members to send emails to our International President asking him to take certain actions.

The email request was the opinion of its author it was not from the M&R Negotiating Committee. We must clarify that any requests for International support must come from the Local leaders that make up the TWU M&R Negotiating Committee who are actually doing the bargaining. Any such requests from the committee will have the support of the International.

Hearing from the membership is important, as each respective local already has in place forums, meetings to get that necessary feedback. Make use of the current local forums/meetings to share your views; it is imperative that those processes are the communication mechanisms used. The last thing we need to have is all of our ideas or strategies (sometimes internal disagreements) being telegraphed for the company to view. Again, please keep that in mind, and regardless of our individual views, let us always speak with “One Strong, Determined, and Fearless Voice” to American Airlines’ management and the public.

As far as where we are in the process we have scheduled internal meetings next week (July 6th and 7th) with the entire M&R Negotiating Committee to discuss the following:

The Table Team will conduct a comprehensive debrief for the entire Negotiation Committee on the status of open articles.

Conduct an updated strategy session in preparation for the next mediation session scheduled for July 11-15, 2011.

Unity and solidarity is the best route to achieve the agreement we know – and management knows – that we all deserve. Stay informed.

We would like to take this opportunity to wish you and your family a safe Fourth (4th) of July.


In Solidarity,

Your TWU M&R Negotiation Committee

I guess our negotiation team doesn't want a release!

Here's our negotiation team:

Negotiators >> Mechanic & Related Negotiators:
501 David Virella
501 Vinny Argentina
505 Mike Mayes
505 Robert Todd
510 Brian McMahon
510 Pete Hogan
512 Mike Rubel
512 Sean Doyle
513 Don Dougherty
514 John Carlisle
514 John Hewitt
514 Sam Cirri
521 John Mizwa
529 Charlie Meyer
561 Jorge Rojas
561 Eddie Suarez
562 Bob Owens
563 Steve Gilboy
564 Ed Domenech
564 John Ruiz
565 Bob Zimmerman
567 Larry Pike
569 Glen Jeanes
590 Howard Blaydes

 

[TWU informer]

I just read this over on TWU's negotiation website:

M&R Negotiations Update - 07/01/11
By: AlanOn: 07/01/2011 1102In: M&R Committee Updates
Dear Brothers and Sisters;

We thought it would be appropriate that we send out a brief update to the membership on where we are at in the mediation process. One of the reasons for the update is there has been information circulated to some of our members in the system urging members to send emails to our International President asking him to take certain actions.

The email request was the opinion of its author it was not from the M&R Negotiating Committee. We must clarify that any requests for International support must come from the Local leaders that make up the TWU M&R Negotiating Committee who are actually doing the bargaining. Any such requests from the committee will have the support of the International.

Hearing from the membership is important, as each respective local already has in place forums, meetings to get that necessary feedback. Make use of the current local forums/meetings to share your views; it is imperative that those processes are the communication mechanisms used. The last thing we need to have is all of our ideas or strategies (sometimes internal disagreements) being telegraphed for the company to view. Again, please keep that in mind, and regardless of our individual views, let us always speak with “One Strong, Determined, and Fearless Voice” to American Airlines’ management and the public.

As far as where we are in the process we have scheduled internal meetings next week (July 6th and 7th) with the entire M&R Negotiating Committee to discuss the following:

The Table Team will conduct a comprehensive debrief for the entire Negotiation Committee on the status of open articles.

Conduct an updated strategy session in preparation for the next mediation session scheduled for July 11-15, 2011.

Unity and solidarity is the best route to achieve the agreement we know – and management knows – that we all deserve. Stay informed.

We would like to take this opportunity to wish you and your family a safe Fourth (4th) of July.


In Solidarity,

Your TWU M&R Negotiation Committee

I guess our negotiation team doesn't want a release!

Here's our negotiation team:

Negotiators >> Mechanic & Related Negotiators:
501 David Virella
501 Vinny Argentina
505 Mike Mayes
505 Robert Todd
510 Brian McMahon
510 Pete Hogan
512 Mike Rubel
512 Sean Doyle
513 Don Dougherty
514 John Carlisle
514 John Hewitt
514 Sam Cirri
521 John Mizwa
529 Charlie Meyer
561 Jorge Rojas
561 Eddie Suarez
562 Bob Owens
563 Steve Gilboy
564 Ed Domenech
564 John Ruiz
565 Bob Zimmerman
567 Larry Pike
569 Glen Jeanes
590 Howard Blaydes

One has be impressed when they freely admit that the supreme authority of the TWU is always something other than the membership.

Even though I thought the boiler plate letter to Little was not only a waste of time, it also shows some desperation coming from individuals that know they have been hoodwinked once again and have been placed in direct blame for our current demise.

This is absolute pathetic and a contiuation of the TWU International Politics to pander to the company.

I have stated before that I voted yes only because the TWU history says every tool, every manipulation scenario, every lie, and every distribution of mis-information will be employed to get nothing more than the T/A that was being peddled using fear tactics they have now have backed us into a corner. While negotiators have every right to be concerned, you can rest assured that the unelected dictators are working hand in hand with AA Managmement and the NMB to guide this to a conclusion of their preference. At some point will either back further into the corner or get further sacrificed. The membership of this union gets mis-represented by this union, and yet they continue follow, support, and fear change like battered spouses.

I do enjoy watching the chess match being waged by those who want to stand strong and stop the erosion of this job. The problem is the false belief that we are attempting to stand against the company alone. When the truth is we are standing against an alliance of unlected and unaccountable union leaders, the company, and the NMB. Until the opponent is fully exposed and acknowledged, which I believe is virtually impsossible as they cover up for each other, then we will continue this unsuccessful challenge.

This chess match and the ticket to watch has already cost me more than the worth of admission.

Solution? Get this over with and then either replace the TWU or plan an execute a riot on the TWU Consitutional Covention Floor while demanding changes that will stop this farce and create accountable leadership. But to continue to pretend and witness this as anything more than pure B.S. in it's ugliest form is no longer worth the price of admission to watch.

This posted "update" that includes another SLOGAN, claiming we are all together against only AA Management is enough to make a 25+ years member that knows better to shake my head in disgust and complete disbelief that a large group of intelligent and skilled workers can be hoodwinked so easily.

 

[High Speed Steel]

I just read this over on TWU's negotiation website:

M&R Negotiations Update - 07/01/11
By: AlanOn: 07/01/2011 1102In: M&R Committee Updates
Dear Brothers and Sisters;

We thought it would be appropriate that we send out a brief update to the membership on where we are at in the mediation process. One of the reasons for the update is there has been information circulated to some of our members in the system urging members to send emails to our International President asking him to take certain actions.

The email request was the opinion of its author it was not from the M&R Negotiating Committee. We must clarify that any requests for International support must come from the Local leaders that make up the TWU M&R Negotiating Committee who are actually doing the bargaining. Any such requests from the committee will have the support of the International.

Hearing from the membership is important, as each respective local already has in place forums, meetings to get that necessary feedback. Make use of the current local forums/meetings to share your views; it is imperative that those processes are the communication mechanisms used. The last thing we need to have is all of our ideas or strategies (sometimes internal disagreements) being telegraphed for the company to view. Again, please keep that in mind, and regardless of our individual views, let us always speak with “One Strong, Determined, and Fearless Voice” to American Airlines’ management and the public.

As far as where we are in the process we have scheduled internal meetings next week (July 6th and 7th) with the entire M&R Negotiating Committee to discuss the following:

The Table Team will conduct a comprehensive debrief for the entire Negotiation Committee on the status of open articles.

Conduct an updated strategy session in preparation for the next mediation session scheduled for July 11-15, 2011.

Unity and solidarity is the best route to achieve the agreement we know – and management knows – that we all deserve. Stay informed.

We would like to take this opportunity to wish you and your family a safe Fourth (4th) of July.


In Solidarity,

Your TWU M&R Negotiation Committee

I guess our negotiation team doesn't want a release!

Here's our negotiation team:

Negotiators >> Mechanic & Related Negotiators:
501 David Virella
501 Vinny Argentina
505 Mike Mayes
505 Robert Todd
510 Brian McMahon
510 Pete Hogan
512 Mike Rubel
512 Sean Doyle
513 Don Dougherty
514 John Carlisle
514 John Hewitt
514 Sam Cirri
521 John Mizwa
529 Charlie Meyer
561 Jorge Rojas
561 Eddie Suarez
562 Bob Owens
563 Steve Gilboy
564 Ed Domenech
564 John Ruiz
565 Bob Zimmerman
567 Larry Pike
569 Glen Jeanes
590 Howard Blaydes

Bob. What a dumbass...lol

 

[Hopeful]

Does everyone see what's going on? No support from the rest of the negotiating committee..
The International owns the contract....rest assured they wuill get us a contract by God....It will be the COMPANY's contract......But a contract none the less.

The international will NOT allow us to strike. They don't know the meaning of the words SELF HELP...

 

[Overspeed]

Without a release the union has no levereage at the table, the company can continue what they've been doing for nearly four years, say "No, we dont want to give you anything and we want more concession or see you next month".

Once we are released we have options, real options. We can simply continue to negotiate, however the company can no longer simply say "No, see you next month" because now the union can say that they will engage in self help. That could come in the form of one day strikes, work to rule, Chaos, sit downs, sick outs, rolling strikes or whatever we need to do. Right now we cant do anything to pressure the company. Yes the company can do things as well but I think they like the status quo and dont want any word of a possible strike in the middle of their busiest season.

True, but can AA implement their last best offer at the end of the 30 day cooling off? So by seeking release you give AA the power to make us work under the very contract we are fighting against. How can you negotiate open ended after you get released to self-help? It is not only self help for us. I still say we will have a significant amount of strikebreakers, like all those new hires coming in the door. With the paycheck to paycheck set a lot will cross. Sad but true.

 

[Frank Szabo]

True, but can AA implement their last best offer at the end of the 30 day cooling off? So by seeking release you give AA the power to make us work under the very contract we are fighting against. How can you negotiate open ended after you get released to self-help? It is not only self help for us. I still say we will have a significant amount of strikebreakers, like all those new hires coming in the door. With the paycheck to paycheck set a lot will cross. Sad but true.

At least Little will have to take a cut in pay - he may have to make do on the backs of the bus drivers.

 

[Overspeed]

I'm sure it's no coincidense that this diatribe was pulled from a very bleak period of history in which an evil cororation busted a union, only to be absorbed by another company that had only partial union representation. It was only 4 years earlier that mechanics at every major airline, mostly industrial unionists, benefited from the lowly craft unions prowess, receiving the largest raise in aviation history.

Like the here and particularly wonderful? The unions were in a power position coming off five years of record profits. It wasn't the type of union that got the wages up, it was timing that's all. The IBT at SWA actually took them from the lower tier up to top tier prior to AMFA getting in. All AMFA has done at SWA since then is sign two extensions and the last one allowed work to be outsourced to a foreign country the first time in SWA's history. TWA/IAM actually had to hire when they took over Ozark/AMFA because the IAM contract had bee job protection. The craft union (AMFA) at UA didn't even fight for their own scope language and allowed work to be outsourced. As stated earlier in this thread, Delle stated that he would never agree to concessions without snapback and did that very thing right after at UA.

Should we follow the craft unions in to all that success at UA, NW, and AS now?

 

[whoop whoop]

Like the here and particularly wonderful? The unions were in a power position coming off five years of record profits. It wasn't the type of union that got the wages up, it was timing that's all. The IBT at SWA actually took them from the lower tier up to top tier prior to AMFA getting in. All AMFA has done at SWA since then is sign two extensions and the last one allowed work to be outsourced to a foreign country the first time in SWA's history. TWA/IAM actually had to hire when they took over Ozark/AMFA because the IAM contract had bee job protection. The craft union (AMFA) at UA didn't even fight for their own scope language and allowed work to be outsourced. As stated earlier in this thread, Delle stated that he would never agree to concessions without snapback and did that very thing right after at UA.

Should we follow the craft unions in to all that success at UA, NW, and AS now?

If you would be so kind, could you please explain extensions of airline contracts to me. Every time you negotiate a new contract, all you are really doing is extending the old because our contracts never expire, they just become amendable, no?

Why don't you bring up the point of why all of us are making in the 30's. I will though. AMFA at NWA around 2000 or so brought the whole industry up from mid 20's to mid 30's with their little basement living negotiators. Thank You AMFA.

And the work they agreed to send to foreign chop shops was not work SWA was doing. That was work that the ibt was never able to secure for the SWA mechanics. It went from a chop shop in the states to south of the border, you forgot to mention that also .

Now about UAL, obviously they felt their scope is better from a bankruptcy negotiated contract under AMFA than a healthy contract negotiated under the ibt, LOL. One more thing you so happened to forget to mention, but it's OK. The work at UAL left under the iam, way before AMFA got on the property.

Don't worry, we understand why you forgot to mention ALL the details. It happens to smart people like you all the time. You just have so much more going on in your head than us simpletons do.

Oh, one more thing. AMFA was able to get SWA up to 47 in 2013 in the 2008 great ressecion with one of the ibt extended (LOL)( )contracts.

 

[whoop whoop]

Like the here and particularly wonderful? The unions were in a power position coming off five years of record profits. It wasn't the type of union that got the wages up, it was timing that's all. The IBT at SWA actually took them from the lower tier up to top tier prior to AMFA getting in. All AMFA has done at SWA since then is sign two extensions and the last one allowed work to be outsourced to a foreign country the first time in SWA's history. TWA/IAM actually had to hire when they took over Ozark/AMFA because the IAM contract had bee job protection. The craft union (AMFA) at UA didn't even fight for their own scope language and allowed work to be outsourced. As stated earlier in this thread, Delle stated that he would never agree to concessions without snapback and did that very thing right after at UA.

Should we follow the craft unions in to all that success at UA, NW, and AS now?

And to answer your last question, YES. AMFA, for mechanics by mechanics!

 

[xUT]

Like the here and particularly wonderful? The unions were in a power position coming off five years of record profits. It wasn't the type of union that got the wages up, it was timing that's all. The IBT at SWA actually took them from the lower tier up to top tier prior to AMFA getting in. All AMFA has done at SWA since then is sign two extensions and the last one allowed work to be outsourced to a foreign country the first time in SWA's history. TWA/IAM actually had to hire when they took over Ozark/AMFA because the IAM contract had bee job protection.

How did that work out?

The craft union (AMFA) at UA didn't even fight for their own scope language and allowed work to be outsourced. As stated earlier in this thread, Delle stated that he would never agree to concessions without snapback and did that very thing right after at UA.

We were not in section 6 negotiations but under BK 1113 rules. Of course you would not understand that as the TWU rolled over under 'threat' of BK. With USAir IAM capitulating 'twice', CAL IBT rolling over, AA TWU rolling over, I think no one here has the 'high ground'. NWA AMFA stood their ground as the 'membership' voted and every 'union?' crossed their picket and some performed struck work. Many of them laughing at the downfall of AMFA. That's why unions suck and are dying. You clowns need to go back to 80 hour work weeks at straight time.

Also, For Your Information and Edification, Delle could not overrule negotiations, the UAL Negotiating Committee decided to bring back the last offer to the M&R for ratification. 53% approved the contract, I was a 47%er.
Yes, I was willing to fall on my "economic" sword for the betterment of the industry to help chicken hawks like AA.

In Retrospect, all you background crybabies wished UAL would commit suicide so you could grow balls and stand for something.

Should we follow the craft unions in to all that success at UA, NW, and AS now?

Nope,

 

[Overspeed]

And the work they agreed to send to foreign chop shops was not work SWA was doing. That was work that the ibt was never able to secure for the SWA mechanics. It went from a chop shop in the states to south of the border, you forgot to mention that also .

Now about UAL, obviously they felt their scope is better from a bankruptcy negotiated contract under AMFA than a healthy contract negotiated under the ibt, LOL. One more thing you so happened to forget to mention, but it's OK. The work at UAL left under the iam, way before AMFA got on the property.

Oh, one more thing. AMFA was able to get SWA up to 47 in 2013 in the 2008 great ressecion with one of the ibt extended (LOL)( )contracts.

IBT did not allow the work to go to foreign countries read the SWA/AMFA website. Prior to the 2009 agreement, no work was sent outside the US...lol. The new AMFA agreement sets a ratio of AMTs to aircraft lower than they have currently. Is that a win?

Yes, they did get a contract extension getting $45+ wages however now that they have a cap on AMTs to aircraft, unless SWA grows. There won't be anymore new slots beyond the current headcount.

Do you want the TWU to get that deal for us? Weel would go for it that's for sure. Even if you don't use SWA's ratio of AMTs to aircraft and keep our current line headcount, looks like TUL, AFW, and DWH will need to work at a chop shop. Sorry guys. And unless you have pre- 1985 seniority, once they bump out to the line, your not going to get that money either.

 

[Overspeed]

How did that work out?



We were not in section 6 negotiations but under BK 1113 rules. Of course you would not understand that as the TWU rolled over under 'threat' of BK. With USAir IAM capitulating 'twice', CAL IBT rolling over, AA TWU rolling over, I think no one here has the 'high ground'. NWA AMFA stood their ground as the 'membership' voted and every 'union?' crossed their picket and some performed struck work. Many of them laughing at the downfall of AMFA. That's why unions suck and are dying. You clowns need to go back to 80 hour work weeks at straight time.

Also, For Your Information and Edification, Delle could not overrule negotiations, the UAL Negotiating Committee decided to bring back the last offer to the M&R for ratification. 53% approved the contract, I was a 47%er.
Yes, I was willing to fall on my "economic" sword for the betterment of the industry to help chicken hawks like AA.

In Retrospect, all you background crybabies wished UAL would commit suicide so you could grow balls and stand for something.



Nope,

UAL's fate was sealed when Wolf was bought out. That left UA with nothing borrow against since so much of the airline's assets were were leveraged to line Wolf's pockets.

I know Delle did not overrule your negotiations. Just like Little, Gless, or Videtich are not. So the craft union is just like the bad industrial union huh in some respects. So the craft union's directly elected unaccountable leadership (by definition of the AMFA/AMP supporter/organizers) is just as unaccountable as our convention delegate elected leadership?

I doubt any of us at the other airline's wanted any one to fail. In reality if all the unions had been paying attention prior to the early 90s we would have been more active in getting legislators to not allow the standard for safety and compliance to be lowered. The problem all AMTs face no is an ever shrinking unionized aviation workforce. We need to encourage all the low wage paying maintenance outsourcers to pay what the airlines pay in wages and benefits. As long as there is a cheaper source of labor, the airlines will outsource more and the shareholders will push for it. The investors want their stock price up even if it is off of labor's back.

I'm not the enemy. The union busters are. AA loves this infighting I bet. Keeps us not focused on them.

 

[Buck]

Sorry guys. And unless you have pre- 1985 seniority, once they bump out to the line, your not going to get that money either.

Fear Mongering?

 

[Hopeful]

True, but can AA implement their last best offer at the end of the 30 day cooling off? So by seeking release you give AA the power to make us work under the very contract we are fighting against. How can you negotiate open ended after you get released to self-help? It is not only self help for us. I still say we will have a significant amount of strikebreakers, like all those new hires coming in the door. With the paycheck to paycheck set a lot will cross. Sad but true.

Sadly, I must agree. having spoken with many coworkers about release and possibly striking, many have no idea what the release means.
If a release were to occur, (which I truly doubt will ever happen), we have the right to self-help and the company has a right to impose whatever work rules they wish upon us. Don't think for one minute that they MUST impose on us their last best offer. They can impose whatever they wish.
If the union chooses not to strike immediately and stay on the job and create havoc, many union members are not going to be happy with the retaliation of NO TV. LAPTOPS, CSing, ETC....
They simply have no idea how ugly things will get. Many are making their obligations on OT and CSing.....They will not have the stomach to endure what will happen. If they have another job, good for them.

If the union chooses to strike, these same mechancis who need OT to survive will not be willing to tell their spouses and children that there is NO money coming in anymore...(UNEMPLOYMENT BENEFITS ARE NOT AUTOMATIC IN THIS CASE.)

I am not fear mongering here. I am well along in life where I can easily handle no paycheck for a while. But many mechanics simply are not ready for a strike and can ill afford one.

 

[Bob Owens]

<_< ------- I was blessed! My wife never had to go to work, and we were living in one of your larger, high living expense cities, with two young kids, at the time.---- We made do!! We knew how to cut back, and did! Even when we honored the TWA Flight Attendants strike, and walked with them for three weeks! Something AA's Unions need desperately! I worked the Docks during that time! The Longshoremen Union (ILWU) knew what we were doing and invited our Local down to work out of their Union Hall. We pretty much made the same as we were making at TWA at the time. But I worked my tailfeathers off unloading Banana Boats!! Lost about five pounds in sweat the first day! That's something you don't see today, cooperation between Unions!------ This is one thing Bob, you've got to get fixed! The three Unions on the property have to stick together, and act together, to get things done for the good of all!------- Times have changed. And in today's political climate, you need all the leverage you can get! Even a threat of one of the other Unions honoring a picket line could get things off top dead center!!!

I agree, the problem is the guys at the top of these organizations are not suffering, they are more about turf than cause. Todays Union leaders dont even know who Eugene Debs, Mother Jones or Walter Reuther were, they are ignorant of Haymarket, the Molly Maguires and Ludlow, but they can tell you the crack price of oil and what Pokeyman stock closed at yesterday.