Release Us!

[Bob Owens]

Chuck,

We can scream and holler "Release, Release, Release"!!!!!! The NMB is bought and paid for by AA, FAA, Obama and Congressional leaders stealing our tax dollars.

The union is being paid to represent us, and that includes having the organization think of ways to force AA into good faith bargaining. They obviously have failed us, and we can't let them off the hook by using self-help tactics on the field, and placing members at risk of losing their jobs, unless the union leadership leads the fight and has our backs. I'm all for fighting, don't get me wrong. I'm certainly not going to let the TWU leadership watch as our members are walked out the door, just because they're afraid of going to jail.

The way to force the company to bargain is to level the playing field and get released. Once released we would be in the same position as all the unions that work under the NLRA. Even if we dont get released why not at least ask and expose the system for what it is? By not even asking it lets them off the hook. Make them say that despite four years of fruitless negotiations where every time the Union gives the company something the company then moves further away, that we still need to talk, we still need to wait.

Lets say we dont ask for release and instead march ahead with directing illegal job actions against the company, you will sit there and say the Union told me so, I go to Jail and then when we are in court the first thing they bring up is that we did not even try to work within the system and request a release. Well to an outsider, the public, how would that look? At least if we made our arguement, were then rejected and then rebelled it would make a lot more sense to people outside the situation. People could understand if we exhausted all potential remedies, which after four years and repeated requests to get released would prove, and then resorted to illegal activities that are only illegal for workers under the RLA. It would be clear that the RLA is not being administered as the Law was intended and has been administered since 1926. It would also provide us a forum to address what the unions failed to address back in 2002 when the Government basically Nationalized our labor, depressed our compensation to allow for more tax revenues to be collected, allowed fuel companies to raise their prices by several hundred percent, allowed airports and vendors to increase their revenues and allowed the banks to collect huge amounts in interest and fees from the airlines.

What do we have to lose by requesting to be released? If so then why did we do it two years ago when the company and the industry was in worse shape, when we had hundreds on the recall lists and there was no shortage of mechanics?

If you dont believe theres a shortage of mechanics just look at how much OT there is across the system. Imagine what would happen if all the mechanics just limited themselves to 40 hours a week. NYC is short 30 guys, one of the guys recently hired is 72 years old, another is 60. Not too many kids out there to looking to fill our shoes.

 

[Bob Owens]

Don't think Obama or the DNC wants a strike now with elections coming up. More people out of work?

I dont think that any President would want an airline strike however we were told that supporting Obama would have dividends for us, well is the dividend going to be changing the rules to supposedly make it easier for unions to win representational disputes and collect more dues to continue to pay International officials six figure incomes and get Member paid for cars or having Obama appoint a labor friendly PEB that will recomend a fair contract?

What the labor movement fails to realize is that gettting good contracts will draw new members, how could the unions have expected to win at Delta when they currently earn more than USAIR, UAL and AA?

Don't expect much sympathy from the public with all the anti-union sentiment and blaming unions for being greedy.

The fact is that public sentiment for Unions has been on the upswing despite the fact that the Unions have done a lousy job both in preserving workers standards of living and exposing where all their wealth is going.

Even if it did get that far, what's the likelihood we will end up in a PEB? If we get there won't we be held to a middle of the pack wage for AMTs? That's less than what the TA was offering.

NO, How do you figure that? Unlike our wuss International, who says that the PEB would only allow us to be compared to Airlines that went BK? The fact is our table position would put us in the middle between the bankrupt carriers and those that did not go BK. Check your facts again. The Current top wage is $50/hr for a major carrier that has heavy turbine aircraft, the current bottom is $32, that would put the middle at $41we are asking for a weighted average that is less than $40.

What about the possibility that if we are released with the current AA offer on the table that we will get worse than what the July 2010 TA was? AA is free to put in place the last offer aren't they? Did we play in to Weel's hands by rejecting the TA so he could present a worse offer that AA can implement? Didn't you guys on the negotiating team plan the next moves or was the big end game to take us out on strike, AA caves, and we are all rich?!?!

Nobody is looking to get rich, at best we would end up earning less than half of what International officials get paid to represent us, and if we compare AAs finances to the TWUs the company comes out way ahead.

Time to take the table team OTS and bring up the spare. This bird is cooked!

Its pretty obvious who you are and that was the plan all along.

 

[Bob Owens]

Wow... take a few days off, and look what I missed....

If they didn't risk releasing you in a mid-term year, I'd say you're on ice until after the election next November.. Believing anything else is defying history... There hasn't been a strike in a year leading up to Presidential elections since Reagan was in office.

http://www.nmb.gov/publicinfo/airline-strikes.html

If "past practice" holds up, you'll either be waiting until January 2013 to be released, or you have to consider a less than optimal deal now.

Wrong, the pilots turned down their contract in 1997, Clinton was in office, were released immediately, 30 days later came the PEB, 15 days later came the recommendation that was accepted. Spirit Air was also released last year, went on strike and reached a settlement.

The fact is the further back you go the more you realize that labors lack of assertiveness has resulted in longer and longer mediated sessions, and lower lower wages for their members.

 

[Bob Owens]

At least Little will have to take a cut in pay - he may have to make do on the backs of the bus drivers.

Sorry but thats not true. Despite their much better benifits and retirement packages they now make more than we do. So it may actually increase his pay since his pay is based on a formula.

The fact is that over the last decade the equity of the union has plummeted but that hasnt meant that anyone paid by the Union has failed to get their annual increases that are never less than 3%, that includes reps, officers and other employees, many have seen much larger increases. Their secretaries earn more than we do, I'm not saying they dont earn it, I'm saying what a lousy job their bosses have done for us.

 

[Bob Owens]

Most here crack me up with their lack of patience in the process. The committee's have only been re-engaged in talks since 12-14-2010 and most here are ready to blow up their skirts. I told you last year this would happen but most here authorized this process with their no vote, and don't blame me because this is your gig I voted Yes on the TA and haven't been complaining even though it has cost me over 8,000.00 in earnings and with the upcoming weekend this would've been the 4th holiday weekend for the year and we wouldn't have waited over 6 months for a holiday. Most here piss and moan about what has happened so far since 12-14-2010 and can't stay focused and supportive of those negotiating for them, lord help us if we ever end up on strike....

I believe the topic here is being Released, not whether or not the team is being supportive, pretty much the only attack against the team came from someone who is more than likely on the International roster.

Without a release the only thing the team has to negotiate with is more concessions.

We need to be released and be put on a level playing field, after nearly four years the company has not increased their offer by a penny, in fact they have consistantly removed millions of dollars with each offer.

 

[MCI transplant]

I agree, the problem is the guys at the top of these organizations are not suffering, they are more about turf than cause. Todays Union leaders dont even know who Eugene Debs, Mother Jones or Walter Reuther were, they are ignorant of Haymarket, the Molly Maguires and Ludlow, but they can tell you the crack price of oil and what Pokeyman stock closed at yesterday.

<_< ------ Bob, Do you consider yourself a "red neck"?----- I'm one for sure! -------The term dates back to the Days of the West Virginia Miner Union wars. The pro Union people wore red bandanas around their necks to identify them as Union people.--------- Interesting times in Union history! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Blair_Mountain ---- And no, I'm not suggesting anyone go out and get a gun. Just trying to point out what people had to go through to get to where we are today!!! ------ And you think you have it bad!!!?

 

[Bob Owens]

It would not be fair or accurate to say that I dont have any support on the committee. The update posted above was not written by the committee, it was written by Don Videtich with some input by Steve Gilboy, and some by me.

I've consistently received support from several members of the committee. If not then more than likely the new hires would not have a pension, everyone under 50 would not have retiree medical, ASMs would be working along side A&Ps, many Class II and III stations would be de-staffed of Title I &II, the bases would have 4/7s and many other concessions.

There was concern that the letter I sent out to around 100 of the people on my E-mail list that started this thread was the position of the Negotiating committee. Some were particularly upset claiming that I had violated Negotiating Committee Bylaws; a set of rules put in place without membership consent, and demanded that I either retract the E-mail or resign. I refused to do either. I did volunteer to write an update clarifying that the E-mail was only the opinion of the author, me, and not the committee, and then Don assigned Gilboy to work on it with me, for obvious reasons. Don requested that we make it brief. Gilboy and I exchanged a few brief E-mails and I basically said it was o.k. except I requested that one line be removed and left it at that. That all occurred on Tuesday. On Wednesday I contacted Jim Little and he agreed that there was no need for me to put a retraction and to let it be. Also on Wednesday I had Membership meetings at JFK/LGA from 7: am to 16:30 pm, after that met with members that evening at EWR then at around Midnight drove to PHL arriving there at around 1:30 am Thursday, slept four hours had a meeting with members in PHL at 7am, then drove back to New York, getting back at around 2pm. Fell asleep for three hours, went to a ball game that evening with the family and had an EB meeting Friday. I figured I had till 1pm CST (2pm EST) to do a final read of the update. I'd read Gilboy’s last response where he took out the line in question but did not reply hoping to get some time to think it over a little more. Later during a break I checked my e-mails and saw that Don had rewritten the whole thing and turned the two paragraph update into a two page indictment. Past experience has been, especially from Stores Negotiations, is that in the end Don will modify these things as he sees fit anyway, like how they stuffed all the ballots with the subtle VOTE YES insert, without committee consent or even notification. So I let it ride. This isn't the first attack, from the orchestrated side show where two former MIA officials threatened me with physical violence, to where a former AFW official filed charges against me, to the snide remarks and being called a cancer by a former DFW official, to where a former Tulsa President warned me that I'd "crossed the line" and to "Stay tune(d)". I've become accustomed to it and enjoyed how the electoral process makes the necessary, but very slow, corrections.

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< ------- Watch your backside Bob!------ These boys didn't like those that buck the system! :unsure: ------- But at least I'm glad you got to go to that ball game!

 

[Bob Owens]

Like the here and particularly wonderful? The unions were in a power position coming off five years of record profits. It wasn't the type of union that got the wages up, it was timing that's all. The IBT at SWA actually took them from the lower tier up to top tier prior to AMFA getting in. All AMFA has done at SWA since then is sign two extensions and the last one allowed work to be outsourced to a foreign country the first time in SWA's history. TWA/IAM actually had to hire when they took over Ozark/AMFA because the IAM contract had bee job protection. The craft union (AMFA) at UA didn't even fight for their own scope language and allowed work to be outsourced. As stated earlier in this thread, Delle stated that he would never agree to concessions without snapback and did that very thing right after at UA.

Should we follow the craft unions in to all that success at UA, NW, and AS now?

Are you saying that the Pilots should give up APA and join the TWU? Just throwing it out there.

The fact is both types of Unions have merit, certainly either option is better than no-union agreed?

There is no doubt that the system in place at AA is broken. When certain International officials side with the company against their own members, something is wrong. When certain International reps say things like "The retiree medical the company offered in the TA was Industry leading and the Southwest guys would have killed for that", without the facts that our plan would have cost nearly twice as many hours per month for coverage while the numbers of days being offered to pay for it was 30% less, something is wrong. When an International official will tell members that their demands are too high and that if fuel goes up another penny the company will file BK, then a week later its announced the company is looking to buy $150 billion in new aircraft, in addition to all the other purchases, somethings wrong. When the union sits through nearly four years of regressive offers and there is even a question as to whether or not the Union should ask to be released something is wrong.

The amount of activity on this thread and the uncalled for reaction certain International officials against my E-mail tells me two things, that the company is very much against us asking to be released and certain members of the International are very much against it as well. Its very easy for some of them to ask us to be patient, as if four years isnt beyond patient,to ride out the Summer and sit back and see what happens then, because in the meantime they will still be getting their raises paid for by us, driving their new cars paid for by us, and flying around in First Class courtesy of AA.

By the way Overspeed , you talk of all these New Hires as being potential strikebreakers, well we have several new hires at NYC, one is 72 and another 60, that tells me two things, there arent a whole lot of twenty somethings, thirty somethings , fourty somethings or even 50 somethings out there with the skills required looking to be an aircraft mechanic for AA. Even Non-union Jet-blue is having trouble and they raised their TOP pay up to $40/hr. NYC has been trying to maintain their headcount since last year, they still have not been able to do it.

Another thing is that striking is only one option of Self Help, the APFA, a craft union that I'm told we are in an alliance with by the way, did a pretty good job back in 93 with Chaos, we also have the benifit of slowdowns and other actions that dont take money out of our pockets so while I agree that every member should be prepared to strike I dont think that the only possible outcome to making an official request to be released would be a strike. Of course you know that as well.

 

[Bob Owens]

<_< ------- Watch your backside Bob!------ These boys didn't like those that buck the system! :unsure: ------- But at least I'm glad you got to go to that ball game!

Wasnt much of a game but the Fireworks show was better than anything I'vee seen at our meetings!

 

[767 mechanic]

On Thurs Sam Cirri was at AFW. He was talking to a group of people in Taesl,when he was asked about his opinion on asking for a release. At first he tap danced around the question. Then he was asked the question again and he finally realized that he was not going to be able to avoid the question. He said that he felt that there were other options other than being released. one of the options he said was to go and organize the venders to AA and let them put pressure on AA. This man did not impress me at all. His answer was something that I would expect to here from the Don or Gless. In the time that it would take to organize the venders we will never get a contract. Cirri appears to be another brain dead local officer looking for an Int position. If being in neg for 3 plus years is not reason enough to ask for a release then what is.

 

[Buck]

I am not fear mongering here. I am well along in life where I can easily handle no paycheck for a while. But many mechanics simply are not ready for a strike and can ill afford one.

I did not mean you were fear mongering or I would stated that. It was a question as to whether or not the membership would see it as that.

 

[Buck]

If you don't believe theres a shortage of mechanics just look at how much OT there is across the system. Imagine what would happen if all the mechanics just limited themselves to 40 hours a week. NYC is short 30 guys, one of the guys recently hired is 72 years old, another is 60. Not too many kids out there to looking to fill our shoes.

It would seem that there a shortage in TULE. On 1D alone they are about 50 AMT's short for a 737 Light "C". They have exhausted the recalls and have uprated the OSM's who have A&P's. Therefore the A/C Cleaner and Parts Washer are now filling the OSM slots. There is talk of going to the street. There are other AMT's coming from STL I think. Most of the original crew at 1D, have either bid off or attempted to do so. We don not need to hash out the 7-day coverage again. That is an issue that en mass TULE does not understand. Those we are getting have no experience. Some for example are being slotted in Avionics and have no clue what is gong on. On the General Mechanic side, TULE had gone to a "everyone is a GENERAL" (except Avionics). However, the AMT's are now being assigned per their skill, basically Systems and Structures.

 

[Buck]

On Thurs Sam Cirri was at AFW.

I have never seen Sam Cirri in TULE on afternoon shift at 1D. I do know that he has visited with day shift, but not about the contract. It was concerning 7-day coverage on one dock.

 

[strikeforce]

The way to force the company to bargain is to level the playing field and get released. Once released we would be in the same position as all the unions that work under the NLRA. Even if we dont get released why not at least ask and expose the system for what it is? By not even asking it lets them off the hook. Make them say that despite four years of fruitless negotiations where every time the Union gives the company something the company then moves further away, that we still need to talk, we still need to wait.

Lets say we dont ask for release and instead march ahead with directing illegal job actions against the company, you will sit there and say the Union told me so, I go to Jail and then when we are in court the first thing they bring up is that we did not even try to work within the system and request a release. Well to an outsider, the public, how would that look? At least if we made our arguement, were then rejected and then rebelled it would make a lot more sense to people outside the situation. People could understand if we exhausted all potential remedies, which after four years and repeated requests to get released would prove, and then resorted to illegal activities that are only illegal for workers under the RLA. It would be clear that the RLA is not being administered as the Law was intended and has been administered since 1926. It would also provide us a forum to address what the unions failed to address back in 2002 when the Government basically Nationalized our labor, depressed our compensation to allow for more tax revenues to be collected, allowed fuel companies to raise their prices by several hundred percent, allowed airports and vendors to increase their revenues and allowed the banks to collect huge amounts in interest and fees from the airlines.

What do we have to lose by requesting to be released? If so then why did we do it two years ago when the company and the industry was in worse shape, when we had hundreds on the recall lists and there was no shortage of mechanics?

If you dont believe theres a shortage of mechanics just look at how much OT there is across the system. Imagine what would happen if all the mechanics just limited themselves to 40 hours a week. NYC is short 30 guys, one of the guys recently hired is 72 years old, another is 60. Not too many kids out there to looking to fill our shoes.

Bob, you have nothing to lose with requesting to be released and waiting for the NMB in leveling the playing field. But, let's all face reality, the NMB will not release us! However, they will release AA, when AA decides to hurt their own operations and customers. At that point, "LOOK OUT" because AA will implement whatever regressive working conditions they planned during negotiations. CS's...Gone!....4/10's...Gone!...terminations up the ass! Please, don't underestimate the enemy....especially the college boys in this company.

There's lots of members that haven't experienced the reality of Self-Help. The only thing I will say....Jeff Brundage was right in one respect.....there will be lots of casualties. The union has a fiduciary responsibilty to the members......is the union prepared to handle all the chaos that comes with Self-Help? That includes chaos from members towards the union? After all, the TWU isn't the most loved organization out there, right?