Reality

[cavalier]

Sure he has mistepped in places, but in general he is faced with a company that has year over year barely changed across the board.

I bet you would forgive your spouse for cheating again and again and again and again.

You have more heart than I do, more compassion than I could dream of to let Dave off the hook by calling his major blunders "mistepped" while employees raise up against him.

At work if one is caught in a “mistepâ€￾ of nodding off between breaks it's an immediate dismissal. You’re fired without hope of ever returning. This is for just nodding off!

Then we have Dave and his team breaking ever contract signed in good faith which requires a court battle. Yet, you label these actions missteps with a wave of the hand.

:down: :down: :down: :down: :down: :down: :down: :down: :down:

 

[E-TRONS]

Hey CAV,

Dave LORENZO is running out of time and sooner than later his scheme will come to light. Then it will be plain for all to see what he had cooking all along. But still he will somehow manage to dupe the world into seeing him as a hero of sorts <_<

I'm sure there will continue to be supporters of these robber-barrons no matter what the end results might be.........truly an interesting phenomenon

Like sheep being led to the slaughter..........absolutely pitiful.

 

[usfliboi]

Thanks Cav and i wouldnt forget unless he was good looking LOL To me theres nothing to forgive., If the industry wasnt in the mess its in , then it be a different story here. The fact is every airline is in the same type boatr. Unfort. our situation is years worth of mismanagement....... piled on top of this mess. Has he made some mistakes? Sure but he is human !

 

[PITbull]

Dell I wasnt aware that we were debating..... First  across the board cuts were not dealt with. If you will recall after negotiatons, at least with afa, Dave mad it clear we would revisit productivity changes. Cost in tell far more than just wage cuts. Frankly i have said all along that Daves biggest mistake was not using BK in order to reduce cost further. Productivity enhancements shouldve been dealt with in a greater manner. These are the core problems and untill they change " cost" will not have been addressed fully . It comes as no surprise (does it)???????? that productivity rules have to change? I do not have all the answers , I can only speculate as can you since none of us have all the facts. I can say this. Whenever a ceo at THIS airline has asked for cuts the first thing i see and hear is " off with his head" The changes we are facing and have faced needed to happen years and years ago but they didnt. We are paying a price fo "not willing" from years ago. Hopefully its not too late "to will" this company back. Dave was dealt this hand . Sure he has mistepped in places, but in general he is faced with a company that has year over year barely changed across the board.

Hey genius!

What do you think Winter restructuring 2 was? Go back and read what you ratified...those were ALL produtivity enhancements (Reserve, sick, pref bid, duty rigs, benfits...LTD, OJI, Medical increases AGAIN, and additonal w-2 hits, just for good measure cause management likes you so well and knows how generous you can be.

 

[usfliboi]

Pit You go back to the afa website. Pull up the e lines. Youll see at the time management and afa agreed to look at further productivity enhancements which untill now has not been done. To stick you head in the sand and say not here is nuts. Changes will occur they have too whether we like it or not.

 

[USA320Pilot]

Usfliboi:

Usfliboi said: "Pit You go back to the afa website. Pull up the e lines. Youll see at the time management and afa agreed to look at further productivity enhancements which untill now has not been done. To stick you head in the sand and say not here is nuts. Changes will occur they have too whether we like it or not."

USA320Pilot comments: Usfliboi's comments are accurate. In addition, the same language exists in ALPA's contract.

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

 

[700UW]

A320, are you banking for a job in Labor Unrelations? It seems now besides being a captain, you are an expert in airline finances (analyst) and everyother work groups contracts?

Gimme a break, if you are skeered say your skeered, stop trying to instill fear amongst the employees with false information.

Your credibility and track record speaks for itself or shall I say lack of?

 

[700UW]

Here is the langauge contained in all contracts, this is being posted as to dispute the fear monger certain A320 crew member.

This one is from the IAM Mechanic and Related Agreement, the language is basically the same in all the contracts:


"The parties agree to meet to discuss modifications to the IAM's collective bargaining agreement to allow the IAM represented employees to "buy-back" wage concessions in exchange for productivity."

Once again this so called poster posts false information to scare people, this person's credibility is certainly disapearing fast, if in fact he has any left at all!

 

[PITbull]

Pit You go back to the afa website. Pull up the e lines. Youll see at the time management and afa agreed to look at further productivity enhancements which untill now has not been done. To stick you head in the sand and say not here is nuts. Changes will occur they have too whether we like it or not.

Productivity enhancements were to be looked at, and if agreed, would result in wage returns...REMEMBER???????? Or, didn't you read what you ratified. I WAS THERE!!!!

In Winter restructuring, mangements prposals were under threat of liquidation, which the majority of the members believed and voted to ratify...(You remember...the reserve system, sick, pref bid) ETC... What were those called?????
Productivity what???? However, there was NO WAGE RETURNS ON THOSE. In fact, you gave more in w-2 through higher medical contributions AND,AND, AND, least we forget.....5% deferral!!!!

So, now they will ask again for productivity gains, cause there are folks out there like yurselves that are so fearful of this management and are like sheep going to slaughter... so What she would charge them for those produtivity enhancements????? Read real slow the summer restruc. side letter, real, real, slowly, slowly..... "Productivity enhancements FOR WAGE RETURNS if agreed! Or, should we donate your portion to mangement bonuses?

Hey, but don't let the facts get in your way of your opinion.

 

[PITbull]

USA320pilot,

USfliboi is correct about which part if any? What wage returns did the pilots receive for pref bid or reserve system productivity changes or sick? Please elaborate. I know you guys threw in your pensions for "good measure", for future company success, but what did you receive back for these productivity enhanements since you have the same language as AFA. I can tell you...we got a big fat "0"!

Please Outline in chronoligical number order of your gains and wage returns?

 

[repeet]

Whoa!!!

Silly me. I forgot about that clause in the contract. We don't need to open our contract for work rule changes, they're FOR SALE.

IAM reps, run, don't walk to Crystal City and start bartering.

Hey Dave, what's your opening bid for the rest of receipt and dispatch?

Unless you're willing to pay for it:

 

[700UW]

Mr Peet,

It would only be for the Tug Slugs who operate the pushbacks, when it is not raining, snowing, a major sporting event on tv or when they are not playing cards, I doubt it would be worth much as it is only a handful of stations.

 

[repeet]

Exactly,

But, those jobs being sacrificed do belong to faithful Union Brothers, so;
I think that a $2.00 per hour increase for each M&R group should about do it!

Nothing personal, just business:

 

[ktflyhome]

Just got back from a 4-day trip and boy do I have losts to read. The one thing that kept being asked over and over by fellow co=workers as well as PAX"s....is "whatcha gonna do when the doors close"????? NO, I do not think that is being negative as some have indicated on these posts. Accusing alot of being so negative and all, I think it is coming to terms with the REALITY. tHE CLOCK IS TICKING AND TICKING FAST. I heard....do not know if it is rumor or fact, that over 500 F/A put in for the VF8 and they are only awarding 200 in senority order. That in it's self shows how people are thinking and feeling. This company has done everything to destroy our integrity and make us feel like doggie doodoo. REally wanted to say something else.....but ya know?!?! :blink:

 

[usfliboi]

Productivity enhancements were to be looked at, and if agreed, would result in wage returns...REMEMBER???????? Or, didn't you read what you ratified. I WAS THERE!!!!

In Winter restructuring, mangements prposals were under threat of liquidation, which the majority of the members believed and voted to ratify...(You remember...the reserve system, sick, pref bid) ETC... What were those called?????
Productivity what???? However, there was NO WAGE RETURNS ON THOSE. In fact, you gave more in w-2 through higher medical contributions AND,AND, AND, least we forget.....5% deferral!!!!

So, now they will ask again for productivity gains, cause there are folks out there like yurselves that are so fearful of this management and are like sheep going to slaughter... so What she would charge them for those produtivity enhancements????? Read real slow the summer restruc. side letter, real, real, slowly, slowly..... "Productivity enhancements FOR WAGE RETURNS if agreed! Or, should we donate your portion to mangement bonuses?

Hey, but don't let the facts get in your way of your opinion.

Your referring to the side letter pits not the actual sad contract afa negotiated for us. If i have any snowballs to throw at a weak contract it would be to afa and the team who led the talks. We paid good money to lawyers to make sure the words are looked over carefully and they WERE NOT I DO READ CAREFULLY and believe me I LISTENED ! I stand by by fact that afa knew this was not the end in the discussions.