Reality

[Kev3188]

USA320pilot--

When you have time, get off your soapbox, and look up the word "solidarity" in the dictionary. How nice it would be for you if all MTX was done in Mobile and the ramp was farmed out to Signature or ATS. Unbelievable. :angry:

 

[High Iron]

Dilligas says: "Stop trying to act like you're saving the vast unwashed from themselves. You aren't fooing anyone. I don't think the IAM, the AFA, or the TWU and CWA cares what you think they should do"

Bingo! The thesis statement. I used to get ticked a little when reading said individual's condescention, now it's just funny. I mean it's actually humorous to see the fanaticism in action. None of it resonates...it never did and it never will. Yet, there it is again and again. Perhaps, said individual knows this and uses this to demonstrate ongoing allegiance to another party ( AHEM ).

Ever see a politico vote counter to how he knows a vote will go...just so he could say he was against it?

 

[High Iron]

Mr C Why do you bother trying to explain reality to these guys. They think IAM wont talk? LOL RIGHT! When they say they will then youll hear about getting another union. What scares me is that some of the posters on here are actually working on our aircrafts. I hope that for everyones sake their more level headed. Iam will talk TAKE that to the bank. They would be a fool and they cant afford more union due losses.

Huh? Can you say 'Non Sequitor' boys and girls? What ARE you saying? I hear no specifics of just how those in question are unfit for their positions, but rather just a rasberry in their general direction.

 

[usfliboi]

Huh? Can you say 'Non Sequitor' boys and girls? What ARE you saying? I hear no specifics of just how those in question are unfit for their positions, but rather just a rasberry in their general direction.

Didnt understand your question? Bottom Line! Iam alpa afa etc will talk . They have no choice but to work with mgt regardless of what some feel they should or should not do .They as well as management have a responsiblity in the end to make sure theyre is a company to work for with productivity rules that match other similar jobs . I dont think that anyone is calling for flat pay cuts. Productivity improvements are being called for. These unions know the big picture. Do they like it? YOU better believe they hate it. But the market is driving these changes plain and simple Buisness 101 ! You have to adapt . If you dont youll go away .

 

[USA320Pilot]

I fully understand outsourcing and it's occurring all over the country. How many of you have bought a product made in China or a foreign made car, which were produced by labor outside of this country?

In regard to the A320 outsourcing issue, I understand it takes the US Airways Maintenance Department 18 days to conduct a narrowbody overhaul and a contractor 13 days. In addition to the additional cost, the aircraft has 5 fewer days to produce revenue.

We have been over this before, but I do not buy the argument that a contractor is less safe because the aircraft QA is conducted by US Airways' mechanics. Furthermore, Southwest, FedEx, United and the entire U.S. military do not seem to have a problem with contractor maintenance.

In regard to outsourcing my profession, what do you think RJs (RJ = replacement jets or replacement jobs) do?

My point is simple: I believe the IAM should cut an A320 overhaul deal to cost competitively perform this work and agree to work rule changes or their pain will be much worse.

Separately, ClueByFour your analysis is dead wrong.

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

 

[skyflyr69]

USA320Pilot
I would stand ready to give more if management were truly going to try and fix our company. But they are not. Their only answer is lower costs, but continue with the same old broken model. I will not subsidize an airline structure that will fail no matter how much I give back. Show me some real plans, that we are going to transform the way this airline operates, and I may consider more give backs. But, I will not subsidize management stupidity. Unless we change this airline, the only way it will work is if I work for less money than those at the LCCs, because the structure of their airlines is inherently cheaper than ours. And I will not work for less.
Michael

michael, if you don't work for less at U you will be working for MUCH less somewhere else. :angry:

 

[cavalier]

I fully understand outsourcing and it's occurring all over the country. How many of you have bought a product made in China or a foreign made car, which are produced by labor outside of this country?

In regard to the A320 outsourcing issue, I understand it takes the US Airways Maintenance Department 18 days to conduct a narrowbody overhaul and a contractor 13 days. In addition to the additional cost, the aircraft has 5 fewer days to produce revenue.

We have been over this before, but I do not buy the argument that a contractor is less safe because the aircraft QA is conducted by US Airways' mechanics. Furthermore, Southwest, FedEx, United and the entire U.S. military do not seem to have a problem with contractor maintenance.

In regard to outsourcing my profession, what do you think RJs (RJ = replacement jets or replacement jobs) do?

My point is simple: I believe the IAM should cut an A320 overhaul deal to cost competitively perform this work and agree to work rule changes or their pain will be much worse.

Separately, ClueByFour your analysis is dead wrong.

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

So what is the answer then.

Farm out ALL work so you and other with you twisted view can keep their jobs while other live in the streets? What's your answer beside looking out for number one?

Don't come back with a patronizing remark of how you understand, you only understand what's in it for you.

 

[USA320Pilot]

Cav:

I believe you are a good man with good intentions, but the major problem is the structure of the network airlines versus that of the LCC’s. Just look at the problems that exist at every network airline...we're not alone.

My point is simple: either management and labor collectively address these issues and find solutions that create a network airline/LCC hybrid or the company and some of its labor groups may become extinct.

I do not have all of the answers to our problems, however, I do believe it's in our best interest for all of the unions to view the "transformation plan" and evaluate options to permit the company to survive...until the inevitable merger occurs.

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

 

[AOG-N-IT]

I fully understand outsourcing and it's occurring all over the country. How many of you have bought a product made in China or a foreign made car, which are produced by labor outside of this country?

In regard to the A320 outsourcing issue, I understand it takes the US Airways Maintenance Department 18 days to conduct a narrowbody overhaul and a contractor 13 days. In addition to the additional cost, the aircraft has 5 fewer days to produce revenue.

We have been over this before, but I do not buy the argument that a contractor is less safe because the aircraft QA is conducted by US Airways' mechanics. Furthermore, Southwest, FedEx, United and the entire U.S. military do not seem to have a problem with contractor maintenance.

In regard to outsourcing my profession, what do you think RJs (RJ = replacement jets or replacement jobs) do?

My point is simple: I believe the IAM should cut an A320 overhaul deal to cost competitively perform this work and agree to work rule changes or their pain will be much worse.

Separately, ClueByFour your analysis is dead wrong.

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

So what is the answer then.

Farm out ALL work so you and other with you twisted view can keep their jobs while other live in the streets? What's your answer beside looking out for number one?

Don't come back with a patronizing remark of how you understand, you only understand what's in it for you.

Hmmmm,

OK Einstien....it took ST Mobile Aerospace considerably longer than 13 days to DO Acft 700UW....and DOing It is the operative phrase on what took place there.

Acft 700UW broke on three consecutive days upon its return to revenued flight. The lost flights that had to be covered by working IAM supported Acft to cover it's absence. How much did that cost UAIR ????.....Care to take a guess?

Acft 700UW had to be chased to IAH , RIC and one other city to be worked....I can assure you this , The King Air 90 and the parts and maintenance people involved did not come free, or even cheap....Care to place a value on that?

Acft 700UW finally had to spend an additional 3 days out of revenued service while CLT (IAM) Maintenance UN-Phugged this Aircraft from ST Mobile Aerospaces handy work.....How much did three added lost days of service cost....and what was the loss in revenue generating potential for almost 30 hours of lost utilization ?

Lastly....I will bet you any amount of money you care to lose? That 700UW will be in far worse shape than it's sister ship 701UW will be , when the next S-Check comes due.

701UW will be worked by U / IAM Labor...and all the issues with corrosion that these Buses develope will be properly addressed....un-like what "Shake and Bake" Technologies over-looked or pencil whipped to mearly make a timeline for Idiots like yourself to rave about incorrectly.

Lastly....Our Inventory was shipped by the truckload to Mobile...and now its trucked back to CLT and PIT. The inventory being out of position in Mobile hampered , delayed or caused outright cancellations of other revenued Airbus flights while trying to get our meager resources back in our hands where the emergency needs were. Care to assign a dollar value to that kind of stupidity?

JEZZZ USA320pilot.....you are either the stupidest arse in captivity....or the biggest falsehood amplifier I have ever encounterd? I'm sure you must have a hell of a case of facial cramps....but I'm sure CCY appreciates your efforts.

YOU MAKE ME SICK !!!!!! :down: :angry:

 

[ClueByFour]

I fully understand outsourcing and it's occurring all over the country. How many of you have bought a product made in China or a foreign made car, which were produced by labor outside of this country?

In regard to the A320 outsourcing issue, I understand it takes the US Airways Maintenance Department 18 days to conduct a narrowbody overhaul and a contractor 13 days. In addition to the additional cost, the aircraft has 5 fewer days to produce revenue.

We have been over this before, but I do not buy the argument that a contractor is less safe because the aircraft QA is conducted by US Airways' mechanics. Furthermore, Southwest, FedEx, United and the entire U.S. military do not seem to have a problem with contractor maintenance.

In regard to outsourcing my profession, what do you think RJs (RJ = replacement jets or replacement jobs) do?

My point is simple: I believe the IAM should cut an A320 overhaul deal to cost competitively perform this work and agree to work rule changes or their pain will be much worse.

Separately, ClueByFour your analysis is dead wrong.

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

Okay, so where am I wrong?

Regarding RJs--right or wrong, you (ALPA) gave on the scope issue. The IAM, during the concession bargaining, did not. A fact which you (and Dave and Jerry) choose to try to ignore at all costs.

"Power by the hour" is akin to RJs. Sending the Airbus fleet offsite for heavy checks is like letting Mesa fly them.

Regarding the safety of the overhauls done in Alabama, there has been a documented history of major mechanical issues since that aircraft returned from Alabama. This is not a hypothetical, this is fact. If nothing else, with all the scrutiny that bird was bound to recieve for just this reason, and it still came back with major problems. A bit over a year ago, an aircraft in US Airways colors (if not operation) went down at CLT due to shoddy third party maintenance, and with that backdrop, CCY decides to try to send half the fleet of mainline planes off to a third party contractor.

 

[700UW]

There are reports that if the IAM prevails in court, there could be a move that badly hurts the current mechanics more. If the company is required to conduct in-house heavy maintenance under the present system then US Airways would have to recall furloughed mechanics.

Thus, I believe it would be in the best interests of current IAM-M members to cut a deal.

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

It is ok to recall Mainline pilots who make double or more then a mechanic to fly 60 more planes but it is ok to recall mechanics to overhaul them like OUR CONTRACT GIVES THE EXCLUSTIVITY DO TO?

Let ALPA outsource all your jobs to Mesa and none of the other groups would even have to talk to the company. But anyhow there is no DEAL for the IAM to cut.

THE CONCESSION STAND IS CLOSED!

 

[700UW]

Mr C Why do you bother trying to explain reality to these guys. They think IAM wont talk? LOL RIGHT! When they say they will then youll hear about getting another union. What scares me is that some of the posters on here are actually working on our aircrafts. I hope that for everyones sake their more level headed. Iam will talk TAKE that to the bank. They would be a fool and they cant afford more union due losses.

The IAM has 637,000 members losing 6,000 mechanic and related is nothing.

TRY AGAIN. Did you buy the anything to get ready for Dave?

 

[700UW]

Here is something to remember:

This is Roy Freundlich with US Airways an MEC update for Friday, July 26, with two new items: Item 1. Today the Charlotte Observer published an anti-union editorial from one of our pilots, titled "Unions can Sink US Airways," that aggressively promotes management’s objectives on achieving concessions from other labor groups. The editorial goes so far as to suggest that the CWA union leadership, who represent customer service employees, is misleading their members on their negotiating activity, and implies that management’s side of a dispute is more accurate.

This editorial does not in any way represent ALPA’s position, understanding, or sentiment, on other unions and their sincere efforts to represent their members. ALPA has received no reports, nor would it assign any value to reports, that suggest that any union is misleading their membership. The pilot author of the editorial holds no union position in ALPA. The anti-union public statements from one of our pilot-ALPA members is regrettable.

We urge all pilots to contact their reps or the Comm Center for accurate updates on restructuring negotiations and the activity of other unions. We also request that all pilots refrain from promoting any management anti-union propaganda or chastise other employees in the media. There is little to be gained from such activity other than embarrassment for yourself, your fellow pilots, US Airways, and ALPA.

 

[AOG-N-IT]

The IAM has 637,000 members losing 6,000 mechanic and related is nothing.

TRY AGAIN. Did you buy the anything to get ready for Dave?

Assuming that the IAM dues are at least the same as the not quite $40.00/mo AFA pays, losing 6,000 mechs at US would be roughly equivelent to Tom Buffenberger's annual Salary and expenses per MONTH in round numbers.

National IAM would throw you guys under a bus in a freakin heartbeat if they thought they would lose the dues revenue. They have a track record of doing that. That's one reason you see another set of initials at EVERY OTHER major Airline.

The history in this country is filled with examples of national unions overinding the wishes of the locals. Often costing thousands of jobs. Jeez kinda sounds like Dave.

Bob,

Whatever the case may be? The IAM is the DOG in this fight against an ominous wrong....and WE the Members have to live with it...and support it , Warts and all.

Talking trash about our union in the midst of a tremendous battle is foolish. I may not like everything the IAM has done to me as an individual...and I've aired my discontent with that aspect before..Yet when it comes to the BIG PICTURE , i'm with this Union 100%.

As the lessons of the CLT crash , ValueJet and the issue of Acft 700UW have clearly pointed out . "Outsourcing" is only good for those making portfolios and caskets.

 

[E-TRONS]

USA320PILOT:

You better take a keen interest with the farmout issue and not compare Southwest farming out their heavy checks to UAIR's at Mobile Aerospace.

Southwest has been an exception to the rule. As they grew their airline they also grew their MTC Program into one that works for them. They have a history with their 3rd party providers that just doesn't happen overnight. Anyway, only the SWA mechanics know the true situation with their farmout and overall condition of the birds that have cycled thru 3rd party MTC. I wouldn't expect them to broadcast it all over a public forum anyway. I can only speak from my personal experiences with 3rd party contractors. They are not all that different in philosophy. Produce the plane on schedule or make penalty payments for lost revenue. If that doesn't invite cutting corners to make schedule then I do not know what would.

Agreeing to Airbus farmouts is career suicide. Once you have an all Airbus fleet then the majority of mechanics have become un-necessary by design. Out the door you go by the hundreds. That is why the farmout issue is a moot point with the mechanics. Period.

I don't care what you hear or who says it. The truth of the matter is that NO 3rd party provider can match our quality of in-house work under the conditions they are subjected to. Not in a million years :down: .

Keep this in mind Mr. pilot.......you hit the dirt first in a crash :huh: . It is in your best interest to have the fleet maintained in-house unless you are comfortable with the "ASSured" level of safety provided by the company's oversight of 3rd party MTC. It's your hide.

I hope you personally looked into aircraft 700's history immediately following it's release from Mobile Aerospace. If you have not then I insist that you do so. Then tell me what you think .

E-TRONS out.