Possible Restoration of Lost Wages for Flight Attendants

[CMH_GSE]

Does Delta give their employees a 9.9% bonus(if your over 50) EVERY month for the next 5 years? I don't believe so. I'll take my 9.9% bonus over PS any day! Just a little something the APFA got for us!

I thought DL did have a company match on their 401, anyone have any info, WT, I'm sure has those numbers.

At the end of the day, the FAs did just fine.

 

[AdAstraPerAspera]

There are still no voters who are disgusted with their raises! "What was the point of voting?" they say. If they really don't want more money, may I suggest they donate their raise to Wings so it can go to colleagues who *really* need it?

 

[WeAAsles]

The NO voters haven't uttered a peep on FB. Quiet as church mice in a Library.

 

[CMH_GSE]

There are still no voters who are disgusted with their raises! "What was the point of voting?" they say. If they really don't want more money, may I suggest they donate their raise to Wings so it can go to colleagues who *really* need it?

Fwiw, there were "no" voters back in 2001 when we got like a 45% pay increase.
Some people just love to protest things.

 

[FWAAA]

There are still no voters who are disgusted with their raises! "What was the point of voting?" they say. If they really don't want more money, may I suggest they donate their raise to Wings so it can go to colleagues who *really* need it?

Like I posted when the TA was rejected, there was really no need to conduct a membership vote to ratify the TA, since the two choices (the only two choices) were "more money" or "not as much more money but same contract as the first choice."

Normally, in Section 6 negotiations, where rejection of a TA can produce a re-negotiated (presumably better) agreement, then of course members should be given a vote. In this case, the vote merely allowed 8,000 flight attendants to reveal their, well, less than stellar intellect (many people called them "morons" and "idiots").

Glad to see that the below-average FAs didn't ruin things for everyone. The APFA really should mandate that everyone who voted "no" attend a refresher course in basic reading comprehension and mathematics.

 

[bigjets]

I've seen some really bitter NO voters out on the aircraft, I don't understand the concept of being so bitter when you have the option of getting a new job that will give you profit sharing, if that is your biggest concern.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Your desire to find negativity in any positive for AA and/or it's employee's is astounding WT, simply astounding.
Are you sure "A Christmas Carol" wasn't really based off you (except for the happy ending)...Geeez

no, I am not finding negativity.

anyone that pushes the value of union representation can't deny that AA's FAs did it to themselves.

You chastise other carriers' non union stance that gives them the freedom to do what they want but you want to celebrate Parker's decision to throw the collective bargaining process out the window.

why did he do that but to keep labor peace?

again, I am glad for AA's FAs that he did it but let's not doubt for one second that it is solely to keep a labor meltdown from taking place.

 

[jcw]

so you say your happy then end the message with a jab - so once again you go negative on AA

 

[Black Magic]

The celebration will be shortlived once the company posts record profits in the coming years. Then all the FA so happy with this contract will scream the loudest how they don't get profit sharing payouts. If the company didn't expect these future profits they wouldn't be so hell bent on taking them away from the employees.

 

[jimntx]

I know that some of you will neither understand nor agree, but then I don't care.  I have no desire to take less money now in the hope that there might be more money later through profit sharing.  First off, to steal from George Burns...I'm almost 70.  I don't even buy green bananas.  And, I love how all you people who have been around the airline business for ages can still say with a straight face,,,"There's gonna be huge profits in the future, and then you'll regret not having profit sharing."  Who did you get that prediction from?  Was it the former head of Pan Am or Eastern or TWA that told you that?  Or, perhaps it was one of the US Airways management geniuses who lead you into...how many bankruptcies?  The airline industry has had alternating periods of feast and famine for many, many years.
 
Let's not forget that air transportation is not a service that is absolutely necessary.  It can be discarded in an instant in hard times.  People were getting from Point A to Point B all over the world long before commercial jets came into being.  Granted it took longer, but people didn't have to have  a seat in a 777 to get from Dallas to Hong Kong.  We saw cutback lite in this last business downturn where people who were accustomed to riding in F/C were ordered by their companies to purchase coach seats for their business trips.  There's been some spillover from that even as the economy improves.  A lot of the Executive Platinums are continuing to buy coach seats and play upgrade roulette with their business flying since they get automatic upgrades space available.
 
You're all beginning to sound like Wimpy, "Give me a hamburger now"--the PS agreement--"and I will pay you for it on Tuesday"--the PS result.  (Which Wimpy never did by the way.)  Or, even better, it's analogous to the TWU great cry, "We'll get 'em next time."

 

[aredeeyou22]

It still won't come anywhere close to keeping AA FAs at industry comparable compensation because the contract significantly undervalued profit sharing.

but I'm glad the AA FAs have apparently been given a reprieve.

You are factoring in the many other pay differences in AA's new Agreement v DL work rules, correct? You can't just acknowledge the profit sharing difference and ignore the millions of dollars in other compensation tied into things such as premiums, overrides, trip protections, vac, etc...
 
Off the top of my head, I would include the following areas in your analysis:
 
-MDC at AA v DL;
-International Override AA v DL;
-Purser/ Flight Leader Pay AA v DL;
-LOD Pay AA v DL;
-Airport Standby Credit AA v DL;
- Incentive Pay AA v DL;
-Vacation Pay AA v DL;
- Surface DH Pay AA v DL;
- Trip Protection/ Availability (DL) v Illegal Through No Fault/ Last Trip of Month Protection with limited Obligation of taking another trip/ sequence (AA);
- FA 'Splitting On' to a sequence not guaranteed the same pay as others on the crew (IRROPS- DL) v Split Trip Pay Protection (AA);
-Crew Sub Pay (AA)- paid for any portion flown by another crew- no availability/ makeup required;
- Voluntary Waiver of Duty Limitations (AA Paid 1:2);
- Actual Duty Day Maximums (AA v DL);
- Scheduled rest requirements at layover;
 
There are many more, but these are some of the extremely expensive provisions in a Collective Bargaining Agreement, and are obviously considered when costing a contract. To consider the DL "FA Work Rules" more valuable by looking only at Compensation + Profit Sharing is not how costing models are achieved, and it would be inaccurate to say that overall, the DL package is more valuable because it includes Profit Sharing.

 

[jcw]

the problem is some DL cheerleader has selected evaluation of the facts and a fixation on profit sharing is the only thing one can focus on
The pom poms get in the way of seeing other points
 
Stand back because now we are going to get 15 or so pages of why all your points are wrong - you can't possibly have a valid point

 

[WorldTraveler]

You are factoring in the many other pay differences in AA's new Agreement v DL work rules, correct? You can't just acknowledge the profit sharing difference and ignore the millions of dollars in other compensation tied into things such as premiums, overrides, trip protections, vac, etc...
 
Off the top of my head, I would include the following areas in your analysis:
 
-MDC at AA v DL;
-International Override AA v DL;
-Purser/ Flight Leader Pay AA v DL;
-LOD Pay AA v DL;
-Airport Standby Credit AA v DL;
- Incentive Pay AA v DL;
-Vacation Pay AA v DL;
- Surface DH Pay AA v DL;
- Trip Protection/ Availability (DL) v Illegal Through No Fault/ Last Trip of Month Protection with limited Obligation of taking another trip/ sequence (AA);
- FA 'Splitting On' to a sequence not guaranteed the same pay as others on the crew (IRROPS- DL) v Split Trip Pay Protection (AA);
-Crew Sub Pay (AA)- paid for any portion flown by another crew- no availability/ makeup required;
- Voluntary Waiver of Duty Limitations (AA Paid 1:2);
- Actual Duty Day Maximums (AA v DL);
- Scheduled rest requirements at layover;
 
There are many more, but these are some of the extremely expensive provisions in a Collective Bargaining Agreement, and are obviously considered when costing a contract. To consider the DL "FA Work Rules" more valuable by looking only at Compensation + Profit Sharing is not how costing models are achieved, and it would be inaccurate to say that overall, the DL package is more valuable because it includes Profit Sharing.

no, I am not ignoring those items... but many of them favor senior employees and a small subset of employees.

profit sharing is paid to ALL employees at the same percentage.

I can't fully cost out the benefit of the two contracts for each employee... but when the costs and benefits of the contract favor a subset of employees to the exclusion of the total group, then it should not be surprised that there will be those who don't believe they got the most fair deal.

and keep in mind, profit sharing is not just a DL thing. AA is the ONLY major airline that doesn't have it.

the industry in 2015 will likely be more profitable in the US than it has even been. All of the benefits of the AA contract become less and less significant in a very profitable industry where other carriers are paying large amounts of profit sharing.

 

[Bob Owens]

 
WHEREAS,
on December 18, 2014, the Company and APFA
confirmed the parties’ previous understanding that under paragraph 3 of the JCBA Award, when United/Continental reaches a Flight Attendant JCBA, the only adjustments to our JCBA shall be upward changes to our JCBA wage rates.

 
 

So what exactly does that mean? Is the aggregate adjustment still in or not? If so good for them if not the happiness will be short lived. 
 
I agree with Black Magic, lets revisit this a couple of years down the road if the aggregate adjustment is not still in place. I did a quick scan of the contract and I didn't see it.

 

[Bob Owens]

There are still no voters who are disgusted with their raises! "What was the point of voting?" they say. If they really don't want more money, may I suggest they donate their raise to Wings so it can go to colleagues who *really* need it?

Maybe they hope they don't end up like them so they were hoping to make more while they are young and fit so they don't end up old and poor.