Points to Ponder

[Bob Owens]

Remember the failed T/a, people are regretting that now, any pay raise would be better then no pay raise and still higher medical costs, and a firm deal in place can work to our advantage also, as the company has to live with it too. Voting no will just give you years of more unknowns, where a yes vote will allow a little stability and protect the jobs of at least half of those who would soon be on the street, in 2003 everyone was willing to give up money to keep jobs, this time other then the medical cost your not giving up any base pay,(i understand that some AMT's will be downgraded to OSM's) but 22.00 and hour with the ability to someday return to AMT status, sure looks better then looking in from the outside, while working for way less than 22.00. No counting those that will stay because of the early out incentives, take the emotion out of it and look at the facts, then vote.

Please explain how eliminating system protection and agreeing to outsource 35% more work "protects jobs".

Remember 1995, and 2003, I'll bet most of the YES voters that are still here regret that, in fact it was hard to find anyone who admitted to voting YES in 95 by 97.

So if AA gets what they want and comes out of this making $3 Billion a year will that $1000 check make up for the two weks of vaction, 5 holidays and doubletime and a half, 7 sick days, and all the other stuff we gave up to get them there?

In 2003 700 more people voted YES than voted NO, Around 1200 of those YES votes were from MCI, they were told that if they wanted the base to stay open they had to vote YES, Well we dont have to worry about that because after years of shrinking the base, despite their YES vote and excellent productivity they closed it.

$22? Isnt Spirit paying $26?

Look at the facts, look and see what Market rate is, Look at Non union Delta and Jet Blue, look at UAL and even USAIR, if you really want to get depressed look at SWA, Fed Ex and UPS. The average rate is currently around $38 an hour not counting UPS. You are looking to settle for $33 and less in 2018 than we were getting in 2003, less than what number three from the bottom UAL is getting now.

 

[Tex-Mech]

http://www.twu565.org/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=pKSCUqGz6sw%3d&tabid=968

Another letter on the offer

 

[TWU informer]

I received this from an unknown Co-Worker. Left at my work station.

Quote:
Once again the alters of sacrifice have been placed before the people of American Airlines.

The great AA Gods require the blood of appeasement to cover their sins of mismanagement, and the great false prophet James C Little has called a gathering to prepare for the shedding of blood.

This message is that of destruction of what has always been considered hallowed ground.

Destroy the contract and shed the way of life that has been lived, sacrifice your brothers and sisters for the desire of the AA Gods and satisfy their thirst for blood.

Appeasement will only postpone a greater sacrifice in the future.
Blood will always be required for the sins of mismanagement, a cycle that will continue unless we standup to the great Gods and say NO.

Enough is Enough

Say NO to the Gods and their false prophet James C Little and send them back to the negotiating table.

Anonymous

 

[Overspeed]

Please explain how eliminating system protection and agreeing to outsource 35% more work "protects jobs".

Remember 1995, and 2003, I'll bet most of the YES voters that are still here regret that, in fact it was hard to find anyone who admitted to voting YES in 95 by 97.

So if AA gets what they want and comes out of this making $3 Billion a year will that $1000 check make up for the two weks of vaction, 5 holidays and doubletime and a half, 7 sick days, and all the other stuff we gave up to get them there?

In 2003 700 more people voted YES than voted NO, Around 1200 of those YES votes were from MCI, they were told that if they wanted the base to stay open they had to vote YES, Well we dont have to worry about that because after years of shrinking the base, despite their YES vote and excellent productivity they closed it.

$22? Isnt Spirit paying $26?

Look at the facts, look and see what Market rate is, Look at Non union Delta and Jet Blue, look at UAL and even USAIR, if you really want to get depressed look at SWA, Fed Ex and UPS. The average rate is currently around $38 an hour not counting UPS. You are looking to settle for $33 and less in 2018 than we were getting in 2003, less than what number three from the bottom UAL is getting now.

It doesn't, we are in bankruptcy proceedings that you said were a threat so abrogation isn't really happening in your world either. This is only a test and your alternate reality will kick in any minute now. You know, the one where everything you say comes true.

Good point, all those yes voters are still here. 17 years later of accruing a pension and earning a good paycheck they are still here.

Again, $3B a year. That isn't in their plan, that is a number you made up in your alternate reality where fuzzy math works.

MCIE and the associated headcount were reduced because we now have 600 aircraft versus over 800 when TWA was acquired. Are you suggesting we work more unproductively, raise our costs, and help AA justify that in-house maintenance is too costly? A base wasn't needed anymore and AFW is falling victim to the shrinking fleet problem now as well. Nice Bob, you really thought that one through. Up until just after 1990 AA used only TULE to maintain an aging fleet with more than 7 fleet types and just over 575 aircraft. Are you saying 5 fleet types and just over 600 aircraft need 3 bases to maintain? Is that the argument you want pushed forward in court?

Spirit has no in-house overhaul Bob. Spirit should pay more.

UPS & FedEX outsources a majority of all their overhaul. DL, UAL, and US all suffered greatly after BK for more than five years before they got these "huge" raises you point out. Again Bob, we are in the bankruptcy you said would never happen.

 

[Tater Salad]

Honestly, do you really want to work for this company under the terms of the "LBO" ?

I surely don't, and I won't.

 

[olderguyAMT]

REMEMBER that failed T/A ?????

T'was pushed hard by the union for a YES vote.
now,

I am getting a feeling of Deja Vue.

Déjà vu (French pronunciation: [deʒa vy] ( listen), literally "already seen") is the feeling of certainty that one has already witnessed or experienced a current situation, even though the exact circumstances of the prior encounter are unclear and were perhaps imagined. The term was coined by a French psychic researcher, Émile Boirac (1851–1917) in his book L'Avenir des sciences psychiques ("The Future of Psychic Sciences"), which expanded upon an essay he wrote while an undergraduate. The experience of déjà vu is usually accompanied by a compelling sense of familiarity, and also a sense of "eeriness", "strangeness", "weirdness", or what Sigmund Freud calls "the uncanny". The "previous" experience is most frequently attributed to a dream, although in some cases there is a firm sense that the experience has genuinely happened in the past.[

 

[A&P Mechanic]

if your so happy about layoff's stand in stead and let someone else stay, look I dont like this cessionary contract anymore then you do, but I also know what the reality will be for 1500 plus people that will be laid off and THIER Families, it wont be pleasant. So if your going to get this LBO rammed down your throat anyway, why not take the few perks there are, and maybe save a few jobs along the way.

 

[Buck]

And how have lives been affected since the B Scale of 1983?

A yes vote will destroy system protection just as a no vote.

The company match on pre funding is not guaranteed by a yes vote

Do you believe that in either instance that more layoffs are not on the way?

What about the possibility of retirements offsetting some of the layoffs?

Rollover again....

 

[Bob Owens]

The company says concerns that its last offer doesn't guarantee maintenance on the fleet will be done by the Tulsa base are unfounded because it has no such provisions in its current contracts.

Thats right, so when they eliminate System Protection whats left?

 

[Bob Owens]

And how have lives been affected since the B Scale of 1983?

A yes vote will destroy system protection just as a no vote.

The company match on pre funding is not guaranteed by a yes vote

Do you believe that in either instance that more layoffs are not on the way?

What about the possibility of retirements offsetting some of the layoffs?

Rollover again....

A YES vote will eleiminate system protection for at least 6 years, a NO vote leaves it in place, IF the Judge abrogates the contract it, along with the rest of the contract will be gone until we negotiate another deal.

It seems that some are making a big deal about the contract being "gone", well whenever the parties are released following a 30 day cooling off period during regular Sect 6 negotiations the same thing happens, the contract is gone, the company can do as it wants, the only difference is that legally the Union can not encourage its members to engage in self help as well.

When all this is said and done my guess is that the amount of headcount that will be reduced by layoffs will be minimal, whetehr we vote YES or NO. Getting rid of young mechanics at this point in time, where competitors can pick them up, is a foolish move by AA. They are already losing them.I'm not saying that we wont see reductions or layoffs, just not what some are claiming, as new planes come in workers will probably attrit out as fast as demand for mechanics labor wanes. Before the proposed six years are up they will be hiring off the street.

My guess is that the company will have a huge number of people looking to leave and I think they are banking on them to sqeeze this deal through. When have we ever seen the company get so invloved in pushing a YES vote? Here's the thing, they keep insisting that if we do not vote yes then they will make things worse for us, well if thats the case then wouldnt they want us to reject the deal if they figured by rejecting it they would get to impose a deal thats better for them and not have to give us increases or fund the 401K or give us profit sharing? Its obvious that even though the court is pro-business they dont want to give the Union a chance to pick apart their "riduculously bad" offer. Their statements this week only make our arguement that much stronger for the court to reject their motion.

 

[Boomer]

if your so happy about layoff's stand in stead and let someone else stay, look I dont like this cessionary contract anymore then you do, but I also know what the reality will be for 1500 plus people that will be laid off and THIER Families, it wont be pleasant. So if your going to get this LBO rammed down your throat anyway, why not take the few perks there are, and maybe save a few jobs along the way.

Do you know what a Sect. 1113 Bankruptcy Protection Letter is?

Why did another union on AA property obtain one, with respect to wages, while the TWU failed to obtain one with respect to anything?

Could it be that what we are voting on is meant to remove us, by one step, from Sect. 6 RLA Negotiations under the current contract to another Sect. 1113 motion under a far more leniant contract that would then be negotiated under Sect. 6 of the RLA, only referenced to the more company amenable contract?

 

[TWU informer]

Do you know what a Sect. 1113 Bankruptcy Protection Letter is?

Why did another union on AA property obtain one, with respect to wages, while the TWU failed to obtain one with respect to anything?

Could it be that what we are voting on is meant to remove us, by one step, from Sect. 6 RLA Negotiations under the current contract to another Sect. 1113 motion under a far more leniant contract that would then be negotiated under Sect. 6 of the RLA, only referenced to the more company amenable contract?

In my opinion the reason this vote is happening is because James C Little is tired of spending time and resources on attempts to advance the memberships living standards.

He wants to go spend our dues money on the Obama vs Romney Presidential election and we are wasting his valued time and money.

Even the very first TWU BK court filing from Levine was driven to attack Romney and never gave a single legal citation.

He is so out of touch with the membership that he cannot sustain any battle on our behalf.

Even though the evidence and the track record proves otherwise, Little still believes that labor carries a big stick in politics. Labor carries no stick and zero influence in those issues that really matter, labor carries nothing but campaign cash and that is our cash from our hard earned paychecks.

Please do not start the crap about Republican vs Democrat and your personal beliefs regarding that debate. That is not the message here. In fact, no Union man can show justification from either political party to deserve skimming cash from your hard labor to give to ANY politician.

My point is simply that politics is why we are not being represented. Not which party should rule.

 

[Boomer]

Blue on Blue; no politics, just a little reminder that language matters: the lack of language matters more.

Read the term sheets and look for the differences between the language offered the differing contract groups: something not stated between groups could be the difference between the biggest losers.

 

[olderguyAMT]

In my opinion the reason this vote is happening is because James C Little is tired of spending time and resources on attempts to advance the memberships living standards.

He is so out of touch with the membership that he cannot sustain any battle on our behalf.

Why has J Little been sidetracked? What caused him to go astray? From the Failed T/A to pushing the YES vote on a history making concession, he is once again on the wrong course. T Horton, D Parker, and J Little, all seem like" birds of a feather" brothers now.
HIstory will clearly show the mistake. If the YES vote wins, D Parker wins big time after the Merger, as the precedent for low wages, work rules, and reduced benefits, will just add to his Bonus Money!!!!!!
Why give up the fight before the bell rings?
Just give that some thought, and....Vote NO.