Pilots Sue Airlines And Thier Union

[USA320Pilot]

DCAflyer:

DCAFlyer said: “The pilots are not suing other pilots... they are suing the union, a legal entity that is not owned by any of the pilots. This will not take money out of any pilots pockets. Oh, and by the way, you are the only pilot I've ever heard of who thinks the suit is a bad thing. So I think it is you who needs to take your head out of the sand.â€￾

USA320Pilot comments: You could not be more wrong. The union is an Association and the pilots make up the union. Each individual member could be assessed to pay for legal fees and any damages, thus you can bet almost every active pilot is upset and "mad as he11." I did not talk with one MEC member at the Special MEC meeting that supported the MDA pilot lawsuit, in fact, except for Jim Portale, not one MDA pilot who holds a key ALPA position is party to the suit. Interesting huh?

As I said, the parties named as defendants are studying their legal and “other optionsâ€￾ in regard to the MDA pilots, but I can tell you this, the MEC is "hot" and will protect itself and the pilot group from the MDA pilots and their legal action. Would you expect anything else?

As I said before, this could get very, very expensive and I hope the MDA pilots do not throw their money away or end up eating up their funds in attorney fees and potential civil penalties, but that is their choice.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[Light Years]

Um, of COURSE you wouldn't find an MEC member who supports the lawsuit.

Rank and file pilots are a different story. Those who know about it and get it have been very supportive, personally AND financially.

You'd know this but most likely no one talks to you.

 

[SoldWholeSale]

DCAflyer:

DCAFlyer said: “The pilots are not suing other pilots... they are suing the union, a legal entity that is not owned by any of the pilots. This will not take money out of any pilots pockets. Oh, and by the way, you are the only pilot I've ever heard of who thinks the suit is a bad thing. So I think it is you who needs to take your head out of the sand.â€￾

USA320Pilot comments: You could not be more wrong. The union is an Association and the pilots make up the union. Each individual member could be assessed to pay for legal fees and any damages, thus you can bet almost every active pilot is upset and "mad as he11." I did not talk with one MEC member at the Special MEC meeting that supported the MDA pilot lawsuit, in fact, except for Jim Portale, not one MDA pilot who holds a key ALPA position is party to the suit. Interesting huh?

As I said, the parties named as defendants are studying their legal and “other optionsâ€￾ in regard to the MDA pilots, but I can tell you this, the MEC is "hot" and will protect itself and the pilot group from the MDA pilots and their legal action. Would you expect anything else?

As I said before, this could get very, very expensive and I hope the MDA pilots do not throw their money away or end up eating up their funds in attorney fees and potential civil penalties, but that is their choice.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

[post="311850"][/post]​

Lots of things require assessments from the membership. Has ALPA filed suit against our negotiators? I know there will be a merger assessment, maybe ALPA should just sue HP instead? How about the groups who filed suit for the loss of the DC plan, is ALPA suing them? Why didn't ALPA spend this much time, money, and energy on behalf of the MDA pilots in the first place? There would be no need of us jumping through hoops with attorneys, courts, and games with small minded Airbus pilots on message boards....

Here is the strait poop.... ALPA is self insured for times like this. They have failed, and as such are facing suit. There are rules set fourth in the RLA which must be followed, article 13 is no exception. Anytime a union fails in its representation, or the representatives lack the integrity to adequately police through checks and balances, something has to be done.

Well sir, the buck stops here! The UMPA/MDA/Embraer Division pilots will no longer except second rate representation from third rate self serving members of the MEC. There are exceptions to the rule, and as such, they know who they are. You, and your friends from BOS and CLT are not among those exceptions. Don't you watch the movies, good always prevails, and in this case the USAIRways Active AAA Pilots currently flying the Embraer fleet under the guise of "MidAtlantic" and our supporters will go down in history as those who were correct, and just, in their pursuit against a currupt group. There has never in history been an MEC with more active suits filed against it than the AAA MEC, that should tell you something......

I will tell you exactly who I am when I can walk up and do so face to face. We'll see who has the ball$ at the time, when you don't have a membership card, and pilot action to hide behind. No, thats not a threat, I'm a professional with pride and integrity. Just don't expect a hand shake, those are reserved for Men who deserve the effort and gesture of my respect.

You sir are running for an MEC office. I have a dated, signed, threat from you directed towards me. Possibly you are a wacko and I should do something about it? Do they give medical certificates to those who aren't buttoned down so tight??

Why for a change, don't you kick your mouth in neutral, engage your brain, and give consideration to your motives and those of the folks whom you follow. Then slowly engage the mouth gear and let slowly out. You have 0 credibility on this board, and very little among your peers. You could only do yourself a favor by trying to gain just a little back.

ALL OR NONE!

SH

 

[DCAflyer]

USA320Pilot said: Each individual member could be assessed...

[post="311850"][/post]​

Well then I guess the members should have thought about that before offering up the junior mainline pilots to the company for purposes of lowering their pay, benefits, and status!

USA320Pilot said: ...to pay for legal fees and any damages...

[post="311850"][/post]​

Ahhh, but there's where it does get interesting. The only way there will be an award of damages, and thus your blanket assessment theory would kick in, is where there is a finding of liability. If ALPA and the other defendants did nothing wrong, there will be no award of damages. So by your logic there will be no assessment, because you believe that ALPA did nothing wrong. But when a jury does find wrongdoing and awards a multi-million dollar judgment against ALPA, how can you say the Embraer pilots were wrong in pursuing their due?

 

[careerfurloughee]

but that is their choice.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

[post="311850"][/post]​

First time you've made any sense in this thread.

 

[ItsNotThatSerious]

As I said before, this could get very, very expensive and I hope the MDA pilots do not throw their money away or end up eating up their funds in attorney fees and potential civil penalties, but that is their choice.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

[post="311850"][/post]​

It sounds as if USA320 isn't a pilot at all it seems as if he is mgmt trying to pull off that he is a pilot to say things and get things stirred up - what a loser!!

 

[A320 Driver]

The problem here has nothing to do with cash bleeding from the company. It has to do with a group of employees being sold down the river to save a left seat or a right seat or a furlough.

I wasn't talking about the company losses. I was refering to the loss of pay, pilot positions and benefits. Plenty of left seats were lost as were right seats and total seats. You speak as if the mainline pilots live happily ever after and gave up NOTHING.

Granted, I do think that Concession #1 was necessary. But to give up everything? The pilots gave WAY to much... not in terms of cash but definitely in terms of scope protections.

And what manner of majic would you have applied to negotiations to change the outcome. EVERY expert's opinion who was on the inside said we had a gun to our head!

That is what the Boeing/Airbus division pilots have yet to do... take a stand, be a man, and say "Enough already!"

I am no ALPA or company insider. I have spoken to those I trust on the issue of concessions and have been told that every paycheck is a gift. Believe or not this company at one time was running on two tracks; one to move forward and the other to park the fleet. That much I know as fact.

There are a lot of Boeing/Airbus drivers who hold that very same opinion. "You will work for pennies on the dollar so I don't have to!" And then they have the unmitigated gall to espouse that they did all they could do to save jobs.

ALL took pay and benefit cuts. Some took 40%, some 60% and those like yourself 100%. Everyone lost their retirement. What exactly did anyone "get away with" and what is it that you feel that I owe you?

But the profound difference is we don't have jobs... we have careers! And those careers have been bastardized by senior people protecting themselves at the expense of junior people.

Protected...I don't feel protected. I work 25% more days for 43% less pay and the replacement (PBGC) for my million dollar nestegg won't pay the cost of my medical insurance after age 60.

It is the pilots and flight attendants in the Embraer division who are the victims, both of the company and of the unions.

Right...the rest of us, pilots, mechanics, Flight Attendants, agents, rampers and every other employee are living the good life at your expense. NOT. Personally I feel like we were all victimized starting with the failed merger with UA. It went downhill from there. Every employee at U has a story. Contrary to your statement, we have all payed one way or another. Some got it worse than others but there were NO winners senior or otherwise.

A320 Driver

 

[N924PS]

It sounds as if USA320 isn't a pilot at all it seems as if he is mgmt trying to pull off that he is a pilot to say things and get things stirred up - what a loser!!

[post="311899"][/post]​

Regrettably, he is.

 

[ClueByFour]

Nothing has been said as a threat, but if somebody believes that there would be a harmonious relationship between a pilot suing another pilot and then the two working harmoniously together you must have your “head buried in the sand.â€￾

You intimated a countersuit, not a failure to work harmoniously together.

Backpeddling is good exercise. Nonetheless, as has been pointed out on this thread--ALPA never countersues (or has not in the highest visibility lawsuits filed by it's own members of late).

In regard to the pending counter lawsuit, it was discussed at this week’s ALPA special MEC meeting by the MEC officers, MEC Representatives, and ALPA Legal. Thus, do not “shoot the messengerâ€￾…after all the 270 MDA pilots who filed the lawsuit started the legal battle, which is just beginning and could get very, very expensive for those who have to pay attorney fees and potential civil penalties.

Hopefully, ALPA national is good enough to idemnify the MEC members--so you can get hit several times--once for the assesment to cover the suit against the whole, and once tp cover each of the MEC members who allowed it to happen.

I think the MDA pilots are smart enough to know what they are getting into. Presumably, so does their lawyer. The latter fact alone speaks volumes about what ALPA has to care about (remember, SLAPP will keep any "money bleeding" action on the part of ALPA or any other named defendants from bankrupting the plantiffs without a legitimate counter-clause of action).

It's the details that derail the propoganda, I say. The details.

Hey--how did those charges and lawsuits against the RC4 end up going, anyway?

 

[aquagreen73s]

>>Here is the strait poop.... ALPA is self insured for times like this. They have failed, and as such are facing suit. There are rules set fourth in the RLA which must be followed, article 13 is no exception. Anytime a union fails in its representation, or the representatives lack the integrity to adequately police through checks and balances, something has to be done. <<

Perfectly stated. I'll say it again, the airlines will get out of this in short order. The claim is against ALPO and this is a good one against ALPO. Go for it guys!


>>You sir are running for an MEC office. I have a dated, signed, threat from you directed towards me. Possibly you are a wacko<<

Being borderline nuts is a fundamental qualification to be an ALPO kool-aide drinker. I bet he's even got a black "Air Line Pilots Association" badge-necklass and is PROUD to wear it!

 

[PHL757]

First of all, it was not discussed in open session at the special MEC meeting. You have lied about that.

Secondly, your statements regarding a counter suit are confidential at the MEC level, if they were even discussed at all. The lawsuit is a public document but APLA's response and ALPA legal's plans are not. They are confidential and since you are not an MEC member, your statements regarding the lawsuit prove someone on the MEC has violated the By-Laws. Everyone knows of your involvement. The question that you may be asked in court is who on the MEC provided you this inside information?

Many members of the MEC believe it was Garland Jones. Was it? Both he and you should be held accountable unless you are just shooting off your mouth again and writing about things you know nothing about. Is that the case?

I have seen the lawsuit as it is posted in several places. I can't see a single thing about it that would justify a counter suit. The lawsuit has ten counts of complaints and I can personally agree with 7 out of the ten even without knowing the details. I'm sure all ten are fully justifyable. Mayber you should go educate yourself on the facts before you talk trash about those 276 heros at MDA.

RB

 

[nycbusdriver]

TIME TO GET RID OF ALPA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[post="311739"][/post]​

ALPA will be bankrupt before long. Haber has been very effective in suing ALPA, and the many lawsuits the "union" faces will, I suspect, end up with judgements far in excess of what they are insured for. This will force ALPA to close its doors or assess the membership for a lot of money. Faced with that, most pilot groups will decertify ALPA and it will fade into oblivion.

 

[nycbusdriver]

It sounds as if USA320 isn't a pilot at all it seems as if he is mgmt trying to pull off that he is a pilot to say things and get things stirred up - what a loser!!

[post="311899"][/post]​

Regrettably, he is.

[post="311924"][/post]​

Not only that, this pilot group is so clueless that his crew base actually nominated him to be their union rep! INCREDIBLE!

It's so obvious that he's a management shill, and now the pilots in LGA stand a fair chance to have him representing them before management.

 

[USA320Pilot]

PHL757:

Your comments are wrong. I was at the MEC meeting when the discussion of the lawsuit occurred and the meeting was not in "closed session". Moreover, the lawsuit is public knowledge, a pulic document, and has been emailed to many pilots.

The MEC postponed discussion on some agenda items due to the sensitivity of the lawsuit because ALPA Legal is evaluating all of its options, including a counter lawsuit. I was the only line pilot in the room, I had lunch with the MEC, and attended most of the meeting. My comments were first hand and yours are hearsay. By the way, why did you miss the meeting, again?

Regardless of what happens, one thing is for sure. This will be a long drawn out legal battle where 270 MDA pilots will have to take on the deep pockets of US Airways, Republic, Wexford Capital, and ALPA, each with their own Legal Department. I hope the MDA pilots have hundreds of thousands of dollars for legal fees because they’re going to need it regardless of what happens.

There is this lawsuit, possible appeals to multipel courts by either the defnedant or plantiff, and potential counter lawsuits by US Airways, Republic, Wexford Capital, and ALPA.

I am not an attorney so I can not make a determination on the merits of lawsuit, but I can tell you this, which did come from an attorney. The MDA pilots making them self a LLC does not preclude each MDA pilot who filed the lawsuit subject to a personal counter suit by each of the current defendants. Thus, US Airways, Republic, Wexford Capital, and ALPA all could file lawsuits against each MDA pilot as a group and an individual. As I said, this has opened up a can of worms and I hope each MDA pilot who is party to the suit has a lot, I mean a lot, of money for personal legal fees, if necessary.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[FWAAA]

It is possible that a union found to have breached its duty of fair representation may have to pay the attorneys fees of the successful plaintiffs.

It is also possible that the plaintiffs in this suit have found attorneys willing to take the case on a contingency basis.

Further, if the MDA pilots have engaged representation on a contingency basis, those attorneys may very well defend the MDA pilots against any counterclaims by the ALPA.

But keep on spreading thinly veiled threats in an attempt to scare the MDA pilots who were sold down the river (sold wholesale, even) by their own union.

Civil penalties?

Get real.