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Pilot Pension Issue - Just the Facts
- Thread starter ISN
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chipmunn
Guest
N628AU:[BR][BR]I'm to tired with all that's occurred to write a detailed response, but I now believe the airline is "toast". I have to look out for my family and we are evaluating our options, which I suggest you do as well.[BR][BR]Chip
Good post PineyBob......kinda reminds me of somethings that Lilninj posted a few months ago in regards to ALPA. Not slamming the pilots, but come on...was it not the ALPA group that did their darndest to get the other groups to vote yes on these latest rounds of concessions? Yes it was. We did it because we had to. Reminds me of something Chip said a few months ago. Dave is going to get what he wants one way or another. Do not get me wrong ALPA group it does stink. Hopeful that all can be worked out for you but if you are looking for support from the other labor groups it is not going to happen.
Reuters
US Senate kills plan to help bankrupt US Airways
Wednesday January 22, 8:28 pm ET
By John Crawley
WASHINGTON, Jan 22 (Reuters) - The U.S. Senate killed a proposal late on Wednesday to allow US Airways Group Inc (OTC BB:UAWGQ.OB - News) to restructure payments to its employee pension system, increasing chances the bankrupt carrier will terminate its pilots' retirement plan.
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The chamber voted to table a bipartisan amendment to a spending bill offered by Arlen Specter, a Pennsylvania Republican, and backed by the pilots' union and the carrier.
The proposal would have allowed US Airways to string out $3.1 billion in underfunded pension payments over 30 years. The current schedule is seven years.
David Siegel, the company's president and chief executive, said last week the carrier could meet pension obligations for all of its unions except the plan covering its 4,000 pilots, which is 50 percent underfunded.
And he said the airline would likely terminate that fund absent congressional intervention or a policy reversal by the quasi-government agency that oversees corporate retirement plans.
The Pension Benefit Guarantee Corp. has already rejected the 30-year payment idea.
The pilots' union said its US Airways members could lose up to 75 percent of their current investment if their plan is terminated. The pension benefit corporation would guarantee roughly 25 percent.
"We are deeply disappointed by the outcome of this evening's vote and the failure of the Senate to see the wisdom and public benefits of a restoration funding proposal to allow us to maintain our pension plans and meet our funding obligations, rather than turn the liability over to the federal government," Siegel said.
Siegel has said he would continue to work for a solution short of terminating the plan. And he has promised the pilots that he would take steps to create a new retirement plan as part of a restructured airline if the current program is ended.
US Airways is facing a fast-approaching deadline to resolve its pension problems one way or another.
The company must present its creditors with a reorganization plan by the end of the month that clears up questions about the underfunded liability. Resolving this issue is also necessary to receive a $900 million federal loan guarantee.
Several Senate lawmakers said they opposed Specter's proposal because it would not have helped the industry, including bankrupt United Airlines (NYSE:UAL - News) or other carriers with underfunded pensions.
"The airlines are in bad shape," said Sen. John McCain, chairman of the Commerce Committee and an Arizona Republican. "This needs to be viewed in the context of the entire industry."
McCain said he would be willing to take up the matter at a later date. But proponents argued US Airways merited an exception immediately because it is fighting for its survival in bankruptcy court.
Officials from the Air Line Pilots Association could not be reached for comment.
US Senate kills plan to help bankrupt US Airways
Wednesday January 22, 8:28 pm ET
By John Crawley
WASHINGTON, Jan 22 (Reuters) - The U.S. Senate killed a proposal late on Wednesday to allow US Airways Group Inc (OTC BB:UAWGQ.OB - News) to restructure payments to its employee pension system, increasing chances the bankrupt carrier will terminate its pilots' retirement plan.
ADVERTISEMENT
The chamber voted to table a bipartisan amendment to a spending bill offered by Arlen Specter, a Pennsylvania Republican, and backed by the pilots' union and the carrier.
The proposal would have allowed US Airways to string out $3.1 billion in underfunded pension payments over 30 years. The current schedule is seven years.
David Siegel, the company's president and chief executive, said last week the carrier could meet pension obligations for all of its unions except the plan covering its 4,000 pilots, which is 50 percent underfunded.
And he said the airline would likely terminate that fund absent congressional intervention or a policy reversal by the quasi-government agency that oversees corporate retirement plans.
The Pension Benefit Guarantee Corp. has already rejected the 30-year payment idea.
The pilots' union said its US Airways members could lose up to 75 percent of their current investment if their plan is terminated. The pension benefit corporation would guarantee roughly 25 percent.
"We are deeply disappointed by the outcome of this evening's vote and the failure of the Senate to see the wisdom and public benefits of a restoration funding proposal to allow us to maintain our pension plans and meet our funding obligations, rather than turn the liability over to the federal government," Siegel said.
Siegel has said he would continue to work for a solution short of terminating the plan. And he has promised the pilots that he would take steps to create a new retirement plan as part of a restructured airline if the current program is ended.
US Airways is facing a fast-approaching deadline to resolve its pension problems one way or another.
The company must present its creditors with a reorganization plan by the end of the month that clears up questions about the underfunded liability. Resolving this issue is also necessary to receive a $900 million federal loan guarantee.
Several Senate lawmakers said they opposed Specter's proposal because it would not have helped the industry, including bankrupt United Airlines (NYSE:UAL - News) or other carriers with underfunded pensions.
"The airlines are in bad shape," said Sen. John McCain, chairman of the Commerce Committee and an Arizona Republican. "This needs to be viewed in the context of the entire industry."
McCain said he would be willing to take up the matter at a later date. But proponents argued US Airways merited an exception immediately because it is fighting for its survival in bankruptcy court.
Officials from the Air Line Pilots Association could not be reached for comment.
Chip:
Wherever the job is you really should take it. Remember that saying, what
goes around comes around? Seems to me that is coming to be with the senior
farts that negotiated the B scale. My, my, my they just may end up with a
B scale retirement. Is it poetic justice? So, as your once idolized CEO
Dave would say in Austin Powers drag "Oh B-Hayve". He really meant it.
Baret & Betty
Wherever the job is you really should take it. Remember that saying, what
goes around comes around? Seems to me that is coming to be with the senior
farts that negotiated the B scale. My, my, my they just may end up with a
B scale retirement. Is it poetic justice? So, as your once idolized CEO
Dave would say in Austin Powers drag "Oh B-Hayve". He really meant it.
Baret & Betty
real world
Advanced
- Dec 14, 2002
- 103
- 0
[blockquote]
----------------
On 1/22/2003 10
24 PM chipmunn wrote:
N628AU:
I'm to tired with all that's occurred to write a detailed response, but I now believe the airline is "toast". I have to look out for my family and we are evaluating our options, which I suggest you do as well.
Chip
----------------
Chip and all US pilots,
It is ashamed you are too tired to save the company that you once cared a great deal about. The pension issue is not a new issue and I am frustrated by the pilots group childish sandbox reaction. Instead of recognizing that there is an issue that must be overcome and working with the company to come up with a viable alternative to sustain the company, "the pilots" have chosen to destroy the lives of the many men and women that rely on this company to support their families. We have all given a great deal and the pension issue is a sacrifice but no more than we asked the CWA, fleet IAM and Management to give up years ago.
The company is willing to provide the same amount of funding over a 30 year period regardless of the program. Why can't the pilot group work with the company to come up with viable alternative within that framework.
Remember Chip (in your words, although not verbatim) your better off to have a company around to provide medical and a source of income while you seek new employment. However don't be selfish and destroy the livelihood of others for the sake of ill conceived principles, US Airways is your company and the 30,000 plus other employees and their families. I am asking you and your fellow pilots to do the right thing keep US alive and stay and fly with US Airways or seek alternative employment but don't destroy the company as you final stand.
I am hopeful you and your fellow pilots will choose to work on a solution within the outlined framework.
Good luck to us all.
[/blockquote]
----------------
On 1/22/2003 10
24 PM chipmunn wrote: N628AU:
I'm to tired with all that's occurred to write a detailed response, but I now believe the airline is "toast". I have to look out for my family and we are evaluating our options, which I suggest you do as well.
Chip
----------------
Chip and all US pilots,
It is ashamed you are too tired to save the company that you once cared a great deal about. The pension issue is not a new issue and I am frustrated by the pilots group childish sandbox reaction. Instead of recognizing that there is an issue that must be overcome and working with the company to come up with a viable alternative to sustain the company, "the pilots" have chosen to destroy the lives of the many men and women that rely on this company to support their families. We have all given a great deal and the pension issue is a sacrifice but no more than we asked the CWA, fleet IAM and Management to give up years ago.
The company is willing to provide the same amount of funding over a 30 year period regardless of the program. Why can't the pilot group work with the company to come up with viable alternative within that framework.
Remember Chip (in your words, although not verbatim) your better off to have a company around to provide medical and a source of income while you seek new employment. However don't be selfish and destroy the livelihood of others for the sake of ill conceived principles, US Airways is your company and the 30,000 plus other employees and their families. I am asking you and your fellow pilots to do the right thing keep US alive and stay and fly with US Airways or seek alternative employment but don't destroy the company as you final stand.
I am hopeful you and your fellow pilots will choose to work on a solution within the outlined framework.
Good luck to us all.
[/blockquote]
wings396
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 3,672
- 1,122
All I can hope is that the rest of the pilot group doesn't share Chip's Cry-baby-I'm-leaving-for-another-counrty attitude. Even with the pension problem, the paychecks will keep coming in along with the medical benefits...does this sound familiar to anyone...and he will be leving for another job without a pension...that sounds worth moving out of the counrty for...he will show us all as well as the company....
Hmmm. So much for divide and conquer - it appears that all the other employee groups may actually come together and fight for their job, albeit against the pilots. Real World and PineyBob seemed to sum up on feelings very well. The Pilots ranting and harrassment of other work groups during their negotiations is about to come back and bite them. If they truly wanted to save the company then - or maybe they just wanted out groups to take a bigger bite so they wouldn't have to - then it is time to sit down with the company and agree to the new financing package.
Just imagine how much of a future these pilots will have if the UAL reorganization fails and/or AMR, Delta, Continental, America West and Northwest enter Chapter 11. CSRs and Reservationists will be able to find work in other customer service/call center fields - same with Flight Attendants. Mechanics will be able to utilize their skills in other industries. Pilots seem to be in the position of...their skills mean piddly if the industry is still sucking air. Of course...the regionals are growing still - so the left see of a 330 to the right seat of a 340? Well....Saab 340 that is.
Get this resolved...stop the strike talk...and let the airline live. Not following through on what you expected of other groups is nothing but hypocritical and you are doing nothing but harming the working environment of the other work groups - causing pain to your fellow workers, their families, their children.
Just imagine how much of a future these pilots will have if the UAL reorganization fails and/or AMR, Delta, Continental, America West and Northwest enter Chapter 11. CSRs and Reservationists will be able to find work in other customer service/call center fields - same with Flight Attendants. Mechanics will be able to utilize their skills in other industries. Pilots seem to be in the position of...their skills mean piddly if the industry is still sucking air. Of course...the regionals are growing still - so the left see of a 330 to the right seat of a 340? Well....Saab 340 that is.
Get this resolved...stop the strike talk...and let the airline live. Not following through on what you expected of other groups is nothing but hypocritical and you are doing nothing but harming the working environment of the other work groups - causing pain to your fellow workers, their families, their children.
Why is everyone getting so worked up over hypotheticals at this point? I think it's in everyone's best interests to stick with the known facts and proceed from there. Lord knows that US has been pronounced dead many times before over the past six months, and yet is still alive and kicking.
PITbull
Veteran
- Dec 29, 2002
- 7,784
- 456
Let's change the subject for a minute....I am sure everyone by now must be aware that we are going to war. Government is scrabbling around and asking the big carriers for planes to fly over there. War is devestating enough for us as a "Nation", in a macro sense, but for our particular situation as employees, we are going to get hit again with another 5% pay reduction. I am borrowing now to pay some of my monthly bills, I am very concerned on what impact this will have on my family and our current finanacial condition.
Company has already reported their projection for 2004 revenue and net profit. How can a company take more money from its employees and project profits for next year. Great for a company to survive, but what about its "rank and file" employees?
Is anyone wondering or thinking about this?
Company has already reported their projection for 2004 revenue and net profit. How can a company take more money from its employees and project profits for next year. Great for a company to survive, but what about its "rank and file" employees?
Is anyone wondering or thinking about this?
PITbull
Veteran
- Dec 29, 2002
- 7,784
- 456
That's my point PSA, that is why I am bringing this up. Yes, by majority we voted these proposals in. Not because we like it, or agree with it, but because the majority were in fear of Liquidation. So, now here we are. I don't care how much the money the co. needs to emerge from bankruptcy, the point is is there is a profit that is projected, period. Because of the servere concessions we all took, even without the 5%, the company has room to "screw up" and still make money.
I do not now, or ever believed the company needed that additional 5%. It was more "icing" on the cake for them.
The faster they show a profit, the quicker they can line there own pockets. You know, they have only forfieted their bonuses for 2003. When 2004 rolles around, the "so called" sacrificing for these execs becomes "a thing of the past". And if they don't have to worry about contributing to employee "defined pensions", that is MORE money in their pockets. Management's stake in the co. is 10%. 10% of $350 Million (pension contribution) is $35 million additonal to split among our "labor friendly" take-all-the-profits management team.
Sorry, I have a problem with that.
I do not now, or ever believed the company needed that additional 5%. It was more "icing" on the cake for them.
The faster they show a profit, the quicker they can line there own pockets. You know, they have only forfieted their bonuses for 2003. When 2004 rolles around, the "so called" sacrificing for these execs becomes "a thing of the past". And if they don't have to worry about contributing to employee "defined pensions", that is MORE money in their pockets. Management's stake in the co. is 10%. 10% of $350 Million (pension contribution) is $35 million additonal to split among our "labor friendly" take-all-the-profits management team.
Sorry, I have a problem with that.
