Pilot Pension Issue - Just the Facts
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PITbull
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[blockquote]
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On 1/23/2003 1:01:56 PM Biffeman wrote:
if they make a profit in any month while the deferal is ongoing it ceases.
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It ceases, but they start paying you back in monthly increments over 18 months. The Co. states a projected profit in 2004; somewhere between the next couple months when we go to war, until they report, next year, a profit.
One year in this mess,with an additional pay cut, is a year too long. Sorry.
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On 1/23/2003 1:01:56 PM Biffeman wrote:
if they make a profit in any month while the deferal is ongoing it ceases.
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[/blockquote]
It ceases, but they start paying you back in monthly increments over 18 months. The Co. states a projected profit in 2004; somewhere between the next couple months when we go to war, until they report, next year, a profit.
One year in this mess,with an additional pay cut, is a year too long. Sorry.
Why should other groups give up something that is not causing a problem? It has been your work rules, salaries, benefits, scope and pension that caused the problems, so your group needs to fix it themselves and leave us low wage earners out of it. Do you realize you gave up more then most of us make in several years combined?
C
chipmunn
Guest
Pitguy said: I called friend in training department. He did confirm about some pilot training in case of extremist problems. He also said they will just have the pilots that stay fly more hours to make up for any pilots they terminate. They anticipate no 'real' problems. Some junior pilots welcome the chance to get back to work and move up in seniority. Heard from PHL line just now also. He states what everyone else is saying. Pilots are writing up extra stuff to hinder the system. Mostly small garbage stuff that does not do any scheduling conflicts. He also said that most will not take job action beyond the 'hissy fit' petty write ups.
Chip comments: This is inaccurate information. First, with any job action the airline cannot fly through it because there would be to many cancellations. The pilot group is at minimum staffing and the airline cannot afford the training expense to put 15 B737s on the Shuttle.
If it comes down to a job action, the airline will likely close its doors.
Number two, there is no slowdown in effect. Pitguy's intent is transparent.
Chip
Chip comments: This is inaccurate information. First, with any job action the airline cannot fly through it because there would be to many cancellations. The pilot group is at minimum staffing and the airline cannot afford the training expense to put 15 B737s on the Shuttle.
If it comes down to a job action, the airline will likely close its doors.
Number two, there is no slowdown in effect. Pitguy's intent is transparent.
Chip
C
chipmunn
Guest
Biff:
Biff asked: Chip, why has your attitude changed? You were out there beating Siegel's drum, telling us to take one so US Airways can survive. Why dont you take your own advice that you told us, if you don't like it quit?
Chip answers: My attitude has not changed and I am the same as I was 20 years ago. I'm pragmatic and reasonable and I pointed on the benefits of a yes vote for other unions. In regard to the latest request, it's unfair to ask one employee group, who has given up an average of $138,000 per year on pay and benefits versus and average of $16,000 per year for the other 30,000 employees, to be the only group asked to sacrifice again.
I suspect if all of the other seven defined benefit plan members gave up their pension, with no replacement plan in place, then ALPA would talk. Biff, why don't you suggest to the IAM you give up your plan for the good of the team?
In regard to a new job, I'll make my decision after the pilots pension issue is solved. See we still have a retirement plan as of now.
By the way, I encourage you to begin the job search as well because with today's news from ALPA, things do not look good for you and others to have continued employment at US Airways.
Chip
Biff asked: Chip, why has your attitude changed? You were out there beating Siegel's drum, telling us to take one so US Airways can survive. Why dont you take your own advice that you told us, if you don't like it quit?
Chip answers: My attitude has not changed and I am the same as I was 20 years ago. I'm pragmatic and reasonable and I pointed on the benefits of a yes vote for other unions. In regard to the latest request, it's unfair to ask one employee group, who has given up an average of $138,000 per year on pay and benefits versus and average of $16,000 per year for the other 30,000 employees, to be the only group asked to sacrifice again.
I suspect if all of the other seven defined benefit plan members gave up their pension, with no replacement plan in place, then ALPA would talk. Biff, why don't you suggest to the IAM you give up your plan for the good of the team?
In regard to a new job, I'll make my decision after the pilots pension issue is solved. See we still have a retirement plan as of now.
By the way, I encourage you to begin the job search as well because with today's news from ALPA, things do not look good for you and others to have continued employment at US Airways.
Chip
C
chipmunn
Guest
Reuters wrote: US Airways' President and Chief Executive David Siegel has said their plan will be replaced with a new one if it is terminated, the pilots are not so sure.
"We have no details," said Roy Freundlich, spokesman for US Airways' pilots in the Air Line Pilots Association. "All we have are nods and winks from the company and that's just not going to cut it."
The airline needs to offer its creditors a solution to the problem to help win "yes" votes for its business plan. But Freundlich said the pilots' union is still asking Congress for help and it wants to take more time to fix the problems than the airline says it can spare. The pilots and US Airways could meet as early as Thursday to address the issue.
To wipe out the problem by terminating the plan, US Airways has to secure approval either from its pilots, or from a bankruptcy court judge, who could approve such a move over the union's objections.
Freundlich said pilots' representatives, who were meeting on Thursday to discuss their contingency plans, have no intention at this point to endorse a plan that would sweep out the pension. He said the pilots' Master Executive Committee was not currently in talks with US Airways.
Chip comments: Pitguy, do not kid yourself because the vast majority of the pilots will not terminate their pension plan and open up their contract with no alternative deal. I have talked with MEC and NC members today and there have been no talks on the pension issue. ALPA will not terminate its pension plan and according to union sources the company has not provided ALPA with an alternative.
The pilot group is headed into a direct collision course with the Company and there could be serious backlash for US Airways unless the pilot pension issue is effectively dealt with. We're tired of open-ended letters and promises becasue actions speak louder than words, but unless something changes, we are headed for a confrontation that could lead to liquidation.
A Thought: If the other employee groups want to help, maybe they can voluntarily terminate their pension plan. I'm sure the company wouldn't mind.
Chip
"We have no details," said Roy Freundlich, spokesman for US Airways' pilots in the Air Line Pilots Association. "All we have are nods and winks from the company and that's just not going to cut it."
The airline needs to offer its creditors a solution to the problem to help win "yes" votes for its business plan. But Freundlich said the pilots' union is still asking Congress for help and it wants to take more time to fix the problems than the airline says it can spare. The pilots and US Airways could meet as early as Thursday to address the issue.
To wipe out the problem by terminating the plan, US Airways has to secure approval either from its pilots, or from a bankruptcy court judge, who could approve such a move over the union's objections.
Freundlich said pilots' representatives, who were meeting on Thursday to discuss their contingency plans, have no intention at this point to endorse a plan that would sweep out the pension. He said the pilots' Master Executive Committee was not currently in talks with US Airways.
Chip comments: Pitguy, do not kid yourself because the vast majority of the pilots will not terminate their pension plan and open up their contract with no alternative deal. I have talked with MEC and NC members today and there have been no talks on the pension issue. ALPA will not terminate its pension plan and according to union sources the company has not provided ALPA with an alternative.
The pilot group is headed into a direct collision course with the Company and there could be serious backlash for US Airways unless the pilot pension issue is effectively dealt with. We're tired of open-ended letters and promises becasue actions speak louder than words, but unless something changes, we are headed for a confrontation that could lead to liquidation.
A Thought: If the other employee groups want to help, maybe they can voluntarily terminate their pension plan. I'm sure the company wouldn't mind.
Chip
RowUnderDCA
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[blockquote]
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On 1/23/2003 3:49:46 PM chipmunn wrote:
A Thought: If the other employee groups want to help, maybe they can voluntarily terminate their pension plan. I'm sure the company wouldn't mind.
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[/blockquote]
Sometimes things said on this board just creep me out! seriously.... shivers!
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On 1/23/2003 3:49:46 PM chipmunn wrote:
A Thought: If the other employee groups want to help, maybe they can voluntarily terminate their pension plan. I'm sure the company wouldn't mind.
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[/blockquote]
Sometimes things said on this board just creep me out! seriously.... shivers!
B
BottomFeeder
Guest
BIFFE<
LIVE YOUR OWN WORDS. ITS A PILOT ISSUE!!!! YOUR NOT A PILOT END OF STORY!!!!
LIVE YOUR OWN WORDS. ITS A PILOT ISSUE!!!! YOUR NOT A PILOT END OF STORY!!!!
Under 1113 he can only rule on what the company files, the company can file an 1113 seeking emergeny relief, IE section 1113 E as UA did to impose paycuts on the IAM members, and then order the parties to negotiate. So your answer is yes and no.
B
BottomFeeder
Guest
[blockquote]
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On 1/23/2003 4:06:04 PM Biffeman wrote:
It has been your work rules, salaries, benefits, scope and pension that caused the problems, so your group needs to fix it themselves and leave us low wage earners out of it.----------------
[/blockquote]
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BIFFE,
How true, you finally made a good observation and comment.
Why don't you let the pilots handle this and get off their backs. You have made it your focus to p!ssoff as many pilots as possible.
Live your words and LET THE PILOTS HANDLE IT AND SHUT THE **** UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
JUST WHAT WAS 1992?
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On 1/23/2003 4:06:04 PM Biffeman wrote:
It has been your work rules, salaries, benefits, scope and pension that caused the problems, so your group needs to fix it themselves and leave us low wage earners out of it.----------------
[/blockquote]
*****************************************************
BIFFE,
How true, you finally made a good observation and comment.
Why don't you let the pilots handle this and get off their backs. You have made it your focus to p!ssoff as many pilots as possible.
Live your words and LET THE PILOTS HANDLE IT AND SHUT THE **** UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
JUST WHAT WAS 1992?
savyinvestor
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This problem should not be settled by legislative action. Suggest everyone write their Senator to voice their objection. They are being offered a pension and whatever it is will be better than the alternative. Savy
