Pilot Pension Issue - Just the Facts

[mrplanes]

Oldie:

pitguy is not buying it. He doesn't get the fact that we who have worked here for 25/35 years have plenty to fall back on if we lose the medical etc.... . I fully agree that this group has FINALLY found the galvanizing issue. If Dave does not honor his committment made in LOA 84 we WILL stop flying these jets. And then the ball is in his court. The MEC has told him they will NOT agree to a termination. UNANIMOUSLY. That is extremely strong because many of those guys were willing to give up most anything to keep this ship afloat. No longer. You, I and about 95% of the group still on this property will not fly these jets unless he lives up to his promise.

I hope Dave doesn't see the world the same way pitguy does. If he thinks we are bluffing the superb work he has done thus far will be lost. We (all employee groups) have given him the tools to have a serious airline. If he screws this pension issue up and doesn't live up to his committment he will find a bunch of airplanes that will be keeping company with the rest of our fleet in Mojave. And you and I and the other 95% will be retiring early. And those that think we won't do it are seriously underestimating us and our resolve.

mr

 

[oldiebutgoody]

[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 1/21/2003 4:36:57 PM pitguy wrote:
[P]"""Mother always said. The more spoiled you are the louder you cry."""[BR][BR]I bet there will not be a vote when it comes down to a more "realistic" pension plan. If you guys have so much else going on for you with your other ventures then this little mess should not bother you at all. Best of luck to you. I feel now you are correct and the company will cave into you and then it will just go out of business. Then you can say you really won.[/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P][/P]Actually, it is more amusing than a bother. I love watching the less skilled labor try to tell the pilots what to think. In reality there's really only one group that can shut this thing down for good; and only then if they're consolidated. I agree that this is the defining issue for the pilot group; either the company will find a way to make it work, or ALL of U's employees, including management, will need another form of employment. That's the reality of the situation, no matter how loud, rude or senseless your arguments are.

 

[pitguy]

oldiebutgoody states:


""" I love watching the less skilled labor try to tell the pilots what to think. In reality there's really only one group that can shut this thing down for good """


I respond to him:
Some would say classic pilot mentality. Gee why do people not side with pilots and love to see them going down. It does not take much to get you to spool up. Hehe... Thanks for the good laugh. Now I will just sit back and watch your drama story unfold.

--"Mother always said you do not have to have money to have class."

+++++Live to fight another day+++++

 

[pitguy]

"""Mother always said. The more spoiled you are the louder you cry."""

I bet there will not be a vote when it comes down to a more "realistic" pension plan. If you guys have so much else going on for you with your other ventures then this little mess should not bother you at all. Best of luck to you. I feel now you are correct and the company will cave into you and then it will just go out of business. Then you can say you really won.

 

[mlt]

OldiebutGoodie,[BR]I seem to remember the two of us having a p.....ing match on this board about your need for health insurance when it was my turn to cast a vote. Why the sudden change? Perhaps your part-time job that pays more than your pilot's salary includes health insurance.

 

[libertybell]

Hey Chip,

Stop your complaining if you dont like the fact that your pension is driving the company broke do us all a favor quit and go work for some else.

Thats what you told the CWA and IAM folks a few weeks ago.

What do they say about glass houses?

 

[chipmunn]

LibertyBell said: Stop your complaining if you dont like the fact that your pension is driving the company broke do us all a favor quit and go work for some else.

Chip answers: Liberty, I am in the process of seeking other employment and dependent upon how this retirement issue is handled may or may not leave US Airways. It's always better to be looking for a job while you have a job, especially since ALPA has been singled out as the only one of eight defined benefit plans to be terminated. I have options and before I uproot my family, for a dramatic move, I want to make the best choice.

Meanwhile, I have only one vote and the pilot sentiment clearly is to "draw a line in the sand" and it's up to the Company to respond.

Chip

 

[ual06]

One thing I just cannot understand. Why would a "Retirement System" invest their pensioners benefits in a B/K airline? Take a look at the RSA web site, run their "Benefit Calculator" with some appropriate numbers and take a look at what they say they will pay their people in retirement income. (Seems perhaps more than US.) Surely those Southern folks ain't looking solely at liquidating US for the benefit of their folks? Are they?

 

[REACC1]

"I believe if an employee doesn't like the new agreements they can/should quit and let those who want to work at US Airways remain and help rebuild the company."-Chip.

 

[autofixer]

[blockquote]
----------------
On 1/21/2003 618 PM ual06 wrote:

One thing I just cannot understand. Why would a "Retirement System" invest their pensioners benefits in a B/K airline? Take a look at the RSA web site, run their "Benefit Calculator" with some appropriate numbers and take a look at what they say they will pay their people in retirement income. (Seems perhaps more than US.) Surely those Southern folks ain't looking solely at liquidating US for the benefit of their folks? Are they?
----------------
[/blockquote]
It appears so.

 

[savyinvestor]

I'm not trying to take sides, but I recall more than one pilot strongly encouraging the other labor groups to accept concessions for the good of all others. Now that the shoe is on the other foot the pilots are ready to shut down the company and put thousands out of work. I don't get it. The pilot pension is the main obstacle not the pensions of the other labor groups. I guess I could go back and find old posts about concessions, but you can't have it both ways. Why not just take less and save the company and the jobs of thousands? I don't understand your rationale. No wonder there is class warfare at this airline. It really is sad.

 

[Bizman]

[blockquote]
----------------
On 1/21/2003 4:36:57 PM pitguy wrote:

I feel now you are correct and the company will cave into you and then it will just go out of business. Then you can say you really won.
----------------
[/blockquote]


These guys probally worked for Eastern at one time. Didn't learn their lesson then, and aren't going to learn it now.

 

[chipmunn]

Savvyinvestor:

Savvy investor said: Why not just take less and save the company and the jobs of thousands?

Chip answers: ALPA has alraedy taken two retirement cuts, eliminated the lump sum on future accruals, and capped it's benefit, forever. Who else has taken such draconian retirement cuts in addition to the other concessions?

Moreover, why doesn't the representatives of the other seven groups who have defined benefit plans step up to the plate to help? Should ALPA do what the AFA did and state ALPA will not take a cut unless management does first? Should ALPA state the pilots will not take a pension cut unless all other seven plans do as well?

Wouldn't that be fair for all of us to sacrifice?

The only acceptable solution for the majority of ALPA members is legislative relief. The average pilot age is over age 50 and pilots do not have the time to take advantage of a defined contribution plan and keep any contribution secure.

For those who suggest move on and leave the company, unless things change, I agree.

Chip

 

[airmac]

Please avoid personal insults or name calling.

Thank you!

 

[ual06]

An Army with internal conflicts cannot fight effectively. To be effective, an Army must have a common enemy, and a common goal.