Phl Ramp Walks On Christmas Eve?

[CaptianBoomer]

700-

I agree with 4merresrat about the terminations......Of course there have been terminations for cause that have stuck. But the majority of terminations that don't stick for whatever reason are because the unions do have some pull getting some deadbeats their jobs back. Its like the murderer who gets off because of a technicality. He is still a murderer, there is no punishment because of the technicality.

I watched many an employee who was a deadbeat and should have been terminated for cause get a hand slap or nothing because management was afraid of the union. If the union would turn their backs on a deadbeat or two, it would put the fear back where it belongs.

Boomer

 

[Q2DETX5]

I have been reading all the posts and vitriol about the "sick out" and the rest.

I find a lot of the pontificating to be a little amusing.

What is not amusing is the pain and suffering that is being inflicted on good people who have spent their hard earned money buying tickets on U to travel only to have a nightmarish holiday travel experience. It is not amusing that those who were honest enough to work yesterday and today had to bear the brunt of this.

What is equally unamusing is the fact that U is totally mismanaged. Management has run this company so short of employees that is cannot handle the holiday rush and it cannot absorb any glitch in the weather, schedule, or even an larger number of sick calls. This management parrot spouting about the sick calls is just that, someone who is conducting damage control. Management, like it or not, is culpable for this mess. Sure, the employees who are calling in sick are to blame as well, but this was sure to happen sooner or later.

No doubt that some people will call off sick for Christmas or a birthday or an anniversary. This isn't something "new" to the airline industry and it isn't new to U. What is "new" is the apathy of the employee group(s) towards their jobs because management has literally beat the s--t out of these people and now they are reaping what they have sown. This isn't a tit for tat, stand toe to toe and slug it out fistfight. The reaction of the U employees is similar to that of a cornered dog that literally has nowhere to go. The dog has been beaten and kicked and treated poorly and it finally has bit its owner.

I am surprised it didn't happen sooner.

USA320 - don't give me this crap about the investigation and the "tough" actions. This company has always been all bark and no bite when it comes to deadbeat employees. Just another instance where they don't have the guts to manage their way out of a wet paper bag.

My best all.

Boomer

[post="231684"][/post]​

Capt. Boomer,
Outstanding post. I completely agree, sir. I still believe these people are not, repeat- not-, here to run an airline. Their primary target must be something quite different. Good evening, Q2

 

[700UW]

You have to remember the company controls the whole grievance process before it gets to arbitration.

Under the M&R contract if you get terminated you get a special hearing which is directly to 2nd step.

The hearing officer is a member of maintenance management, not the union. (and when someone is fired labor relations gives the local management the instructions to fire the person). So the person making the decision to bring the person back is management.

The next step 3rd step is heard by someone in labor relations (the very same department that gave the go ahead to terminate) once again management person not union.

The review board, which is two company, two union members, usually deadlocked.

Then it goes to arbitration, one management member, one union member and an independent arbitrator ( the arbitrator is the one who decides the case as in most cases, union board member sides with the union, the management board member sides with the company) then the arbiter makes the final say so.

So the whole process is controlled by the company till it hits arbitration.

So if the person gets their job back before arbitration, it is the company that brings the person back, not the union, the union only presents the grievant's case.

And I have seen the IAM decide numerous times not to pursue the case beyond third step.

Your rights in the workplace:
discipline, termination and just cause

An extremely important right guaranteed by a union contract is that an employee can only be disciplined or terminated for "just cause." Just cause means the employer cannot exercise the power to discipline and fire for capricious, arbitrary or discriminatory reasons. Specifically, just cause requires the following:

NOTICE. Management must give the employee warning or notice that the employee is violating a rule or policy, and must tell the employee what the rule or policy is.

REASONABLE. The rule or policy must be reasonable and related to the orderly, efficient and safe operation of the company.

INVESTIGATION. The employer must make an investigation to determine whether the employee did in fact violate the rule or policy cited.

FAIR INVESTIGATION. The investigation must be conducted fairly and objectively.

EVIDENCE. The university must have solid evidence of the violation of the rule or policy. You are entitled to receive copies of this evidence.

EQUAL TREATMENT. The rules or policies must be applied equally. They cannot be applied in a disparate, discriminatory or arbitrary manner.

APPROPRIATE. The discipline must be appropriate and reasonably related to (a) the seriousness of the employee's proven offense and (B) the record of the employee.

An important corollary is that discipline must be progressive. It is intended to correct a problem, not to be punitive. Management must give the employee a reasonable opportunity to correct the problem for which discipline was imposed. More severe discipline, including termination, can only follow after lesser discipline has been imposed.

 

[4merresrat]

You have to remember the company controls the whole grievance process before it gets to arbitration.

Under the M&R contract if you get terminated you get a special hearing which is directly to 2nd step.

The hearing officer is a member of maintenance management, not the union. (and when someone is fired labor relations gives the local management the instructions to fire the person). So the person making the decision to bring the person back is management.

The next step 3rd step is heard by someone in labor relations (the very same department that gave the go ahead to terminate) once again management person not union.

The review board, which is two company, two union members, usually deadlocked.

Then it goes to arbitration, one management member, one union member and an independent arbitrator ( the arbitrator is the one who decides the case as in most cases, union board member sides with the union, the management board member sides with the company) then the arbiter makes the final say so.

So the whole process is controlled by the company till it hits arbitration.

So if the person gets their job back before arbitration, it is the company that brings the person back, not the union, the union only presents the grievant's case.

And I have seen the IAM decide numerous times not to pursue the case beyond third step.

[post="231703"][/post]​

Well, if one is stealing from the company I don't know what type of discipline you would choose to impose. So what are you saying-if you book your friends on $120.00 rt tkts one day before a trip, and the correct price should be $1600, that they should be shown the error of their ways by progressive discipline? Of course there are some cases that progressive discipline works but in a lot of cases just outright firing is the only way to go. That and a jail cell .

 

[Dog Wonder]

No one has ever verified whether or not this rumor is true.

And Delldude isn't LYS a violation of the ethics policy? Should there be an investigation?

 

[deltawatch]

 

[Finish or Ignore]

How will we be able to tell when the sickout begins?

 

[700UW]

You don't have to follow progressive steps for things like stealing and serious offenses.

I have seen agents in TPA get fired for ticket hanky panky.

 

[ojxux]

There is a full scale investigation on-going into the PHL situation and the F/A sick calls. I understand there are going to be some "very tough" actions taken and there will be more news shortly.

For those employees who called in sick and we're not, they should be immediately terminated. These people were dishonest, they hurt the customer, and they hurt fellow employees.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

[post="231676"][/post]​

Oooh, everyone should be scared; "full scale investigation"; "tough action". In the words of our president:

"Bring em on!!!" :angry:

 

[sentrido]

This has got to be some of the most pitiful statements I have read on these boards. The mind-set behind it is just incredible. So let me get this straight, it use to be worth it to come to work but now it is not. My advise to you is to QUIT! Find a job where it is worth it to you to show up at. This is what most normal, motivated, and moral human beings do. And as far as your "employees will treat your customers the way you treat your employees, my advise to you is simple, do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Would you like to be treated like you treated your passengers this holiday weekend?

[post="231678"][/post]​

That is what I did do. Well, I didnt quit, but I did move on. It used to suck but now i think im better off for it. As for your statment "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" Give me a break. Maybe in a backward ass country store setting this crap will fly, but most people in the real world arent gonna treat thier job like a charity for the company and bust thier asses for low pay. NOW, I PERSONALY WOULD NEVER DO THIS, I NEVER TOOK A SINGLE SICK DAY, I WORKED EVERY HOLIDAY. EVERY SINGLE ONE. THE FIRST TIME I SAW A CHRISTMAS WITH MY FAMILY WAS AFTER 911.

 

[delldude]

There is a full scale investigation on-going into the PHL situation and the F/A sick calls. I understand there are going to be some "very tough" actions taken and there will be more news shortly.

For those employees who called in sick and we're not, they should be immediately terminated. These people were dishonest, they hurt the customer, and they hurt fellow employees.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

[post="231676"][/post]​

you preach management lockerroom jib jab......if all were sick within the boundries of the company attendance policy there ain't nutin' that will come of it and i'm willing to bet that for the most part thats the way it will go....

 

[kid5mule]

That is what I did do. Well, I didnt quit, but I did move on. It used to suck but now i think im better off for it. As for your statment "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" Give me a break. Maybe in a backward ass country store setting this crap will fly, but most people in the real world arent gonna treat thier job like a charity for the company and bust thier asses for low pay. NOW, I PERSONALY WOULD NEVER DO THIS, I NEVER TOOK A SINGLE SICK DAY, I WORKED EVERY HOLIDAY. EVERY SINGLE ONE. THE FIRST TIME I SAW A CHRISTMAS WITH MY FAMILY WAS AFTER 911.

[post="231902"][/post]​

 

[kid5mule]

We have all analysized what has happened at Phl. It is managements fault for not managing, the employees have been mistreated therefore they are justified for their "alledged" sick out. . So what have we (all USAirways employees) accomplished?
We (both management and employees) have destroyed thousands of families holiday. Again we have aired our dirty laundry to the flying public via the media and we have put it to our passengers who buy the tickets that generate the revenue. If anyone was considering an investment at U they will certainly take their money and run.
My conclusion; this may very well be the straw that "broke" the airlines back. Good luck

 

[RedOne]

There is a full scale investigation on-going into the PHL situation and the F/A sick calls. I understand there are going to be some "very tough" actions taken and there will be more news shortly.

For those employees who called in sick and we're not, they should be immediately terminated. These people were dishonest, they hurt the customer, and they hurt fellow employees.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

[post="231676"][/post]​

..........
No more dishonest than a flight crewmember who lives in one city and commutes to his/her base in another and the flight is full so they call in sick (they don't list on the flight so crew scheduling doesn't know they are at the airport...and besides the call in is 4-6 hrs before their flight is due out!). Don't tell me you have never done this 320.

 

[Winglet]

We have all analysized what has happened at Phl. It is managements fault for not managing, the employees have been mistreated therefore they are justified for their "alledged" sick out. . So what have we (all USAirways employees) accomplished?
We (both management and employees) have destroyed thousands of families holiday. Again we have aired our dirty laundry to the flying public via the media and we have put it to our passengers who buy the tickets that generate the revenue. If anyone was considering an investment at U they will certainly take their money and run.
My conclusion; this may very well be the straw that "broke" the airlines back. Good luck

[post="231932"][/post]​

It's common sense to me not to travel on a carrier that has severe labor problems. I wouldn't have bought a ticket on US Airways to begin with, knowing this was probably going to happen.