diamondcutter
Veteran
- Apr 11, 2007
- 640
- 618
I agree. If the computer can red flag when your illegal, why cant it be programed for overfly?
overflying...
- Thread starter legacy-to-LCC
- Start date
lildutchgrl, I'm glad to hear you found a way to leave.
I myself have often stated on this board that if someone is not happy then they should just leave. You probably were a great asset to this company. I'm actually the opposite of you. I don't think I would miss half the people I work with. They are often 50 % of the stress of going to work, not the passengers.
I would even say there are legal cases for harrassment in the work place when it comes to how junior FAs are treated by senior FAs. Yes, it can go the other way as well. But let's face it, if you have reserve next to your name and number you are often treated like a new hire.
I'm sure there will be comments made to me and other reserves that if we are so unhappy then we should leave. As for myself, and others, we still love our jobs. I love flying. I love being on a plane and I love customer service. I'm proud to wear my uniform and feel blessed to have made a job out of my passion.
If we as American citizens just threw up our arms and moved away everytime we saw injustices in the past, nothing would ever progress for the better. I feel the same way here.
The funny thing is, I could handle being on reserve for ten years if weren't for the fact that for six months out of the year I don't even break guarantee. Currently, I have flown 3 trips from scheduling in the past 6 weeks. After nearly ten years, that is unacceptable. The sad part is, something could be done about it.
For now, I can afford to wait it out. How much longer, that all depends. I take it day-by-day to be honest.
I myself have often stated on this board that if someone is not happy then they should just leave. You probably were a great asset to this company. I'm actually the opposite of you. I don't think I would miss half the people I work with. They are often 50 % of the stress of going to work, not the passengers.
I would even say there are legal cases for harrassment in the work place when it comes to how junior FAs are treated by senior FAs. Yes, it can go the other way as well. But let's face it, if you have reserve next to your name and number you are often treated like a new hire.
I'm sure there will be comments made to me and other reserves that if we are so unhappy then we should leave. As for myself, and others, we still love our jobs. I love flying. I love being on a plane and I love customer service. I'm proud to wear my uniform and feel blessed to have made a job out of my passion.
If we as American citizens just threw up our arms and moved away everytime we saw injustices in the past, nothing would ever progress for the better. I feel the same way here.
The funny thing is, I could handle being on reserve for ten years if weren't for the fact that for six months out of the year I don't even break guarantee. Currently, I have flown 3 trips from scheduling in the past 6 weeks. After nearly ten years, that is unacceptable. The sad part is, something could be done about it.
For now, I can afford to wait it out. How much longer, that all depends. I take it day-by-day to be honest.
galley princess
Senior
- Nov 4, 2007
- 384
- 263
A couple of comments for those interested.
ETB not being pay-credit is tied to the fact that it is placed on top of the reserve guarantee. Make it pay credit, and reserves are back to clawing to 80 hours, instead of potentially flying a three day and getting 85 hours via guarantee + a three day 15 hour trip.
I truly believe that this was an accident. I think that this was the company equivalent of the LTO system, in other words, they didn't know what they agreed to. ETB was a cash cow for the reserves who didn't mind flying everyday until they found a way to kabosh it using the FAA and the 24 rule. Still, this is your one and only card in your hand. Don't be so quick to want to give it away.
ETB was also a method to allow the company to shift away some of the burden of rescheduling the airline every day to the flight attendant. Instead of using the bidsheet, ie, TWOP, the f/a owns the trip until it's picked up, it's not scheduling's problem to put someone with a pulse on the trip. . The fact that they didn't automate it, well, tripping over that penny again.
As for overflying, if the person who is getting the overfly letters every month is ignoring them and getting away with it, I am surprised. US is not just eyeballing reserves. Recently I have seen more attention coming our way from Inflight in various forms. Three years later, I do believe that they are getting around to us. You may just start seeing some "examples" soon. US is a business, and at the end of the day, they have no desire to pay anyone twice. What might be seen as overflying might just be blockholders doing ETB, which is easier for them, than reserves, who have to make do with what's available within their parameters and on their days off.
At the same time, if you cast a gander at ETB for December, there is virtually nothing until you get close to Christmas, which the reserves do not have off. So if someone's picking up too much flying, it's off of the bidsheet, and therefore visible to anyone looking for it. If there is a way to target overflying in the computer, it is now, and I suggest Tempe, that you do take a look, because heaven knows, you do dislike paying anything more than necessary. Overflying is stealing, depresses already abysmal morale and costs you MONEY.
Finally, having thought about the reserve situation and the fact that both sides are pretty intractable, I submit that any real change to how we are scheduled and the need for change will have to be company led. DP mentioned in his last crew news that compensation and scheduling will have to start to deal with the new reality of no-growth airlines. This requires a completely different approach to how the flight attendant job is approached schedule wise.
It is incompatible with seniority and voting for the union to lead any real change. Blockholders outnumber reserves, have significant years "earning the perks" and will oppose the elimination of what they have worked for. It is incumbent on the company to re-write the reserve book, while accomodating the blockholder need for flexibility.
The easiest way to approach this would be via compensation. What if you made MORE being on reserve? It wouldn't change seniority, if you're senior you'd get to choose whether or not you wanted to put up with the inconvenience of being on call and bid accordingly. If you're junior, well, nothing changes, except you're compensated for living on a leash. Of course the complications of this idea are huge, and again, it would require real muscle from the company to prevail, since it's such a 180 degree view of the view that juniority= on call.
You saw some of the hostility that would occur in the early days of the ETB, when reserves were pulling in over 100 hours, but not actually flying it, since the 71 hours were "on call" hours and not actual flight hours. Nasty messages like "not for reserves" popped up in the comment section of the ETB. It always struck me as intellectual laziness on the part of these blockholders, who were oblivious to the fact that these reserves were working 30 days per month, being on call and doing ETB.
Well, I'm back off to the wilderness. Couldn't resist this one.
Merry Christmas!
ETB not being pay-credit is tied to the fact that it is placed on top of the reserve guarantee. Make it pay credit, and reserves are back to clawing to 80 hours, instead of potentially flying a three day and getting 85 hours via guarantee + a three day 15 hour trip.
I truly believe that this was an accident. I think that this was the company equivalent of the LTO system, in other words, they didn't know what they agreed to. ETB was a cash cow for the reserves who didn't mind flying everyday until they found a way to kabosh it using the FAA and the 24 rule. Still, this is your one and only card in your hand. Don't be so quick to want to give it away.
ETB was also a method to allow the company to shift away some of the burden of rescheduling the airline every day to the flight attendant. Instead of using the bidsheet, ie, TWOP, the f/a owns the trip until it's picked up, it's not scheduling's problem to put someone with a pulse on the trip. . The fact that they didn't automate it, well, tripping over that penny again.
As for overflying, if the person who is getting the overfly letters every month is ignoring them and getting away with it, I am surprised. US is not just eyeballing reserves. Recently I have seen more attention coming our way from Inflight in various forms. Three years later, I do believe that they are getting around to us. You may just start seeing some "examples" soon. US is a business, and at the end of the day, they have no desire to pay anyone twice. What might be seen as overflying might just be blockholders doing ETB, which is easier for them, than reserves, who have to make do with what's available within their parameters and on their days off.
At the same time, if you cast a gander at ETB for December, there is virtually nothing until you get close to Christmas, which the reserves do not have off. So if someone's picking up too much flying, it's off of the bidsheet, and therefore visible to anyone looking for it. If there is a way to target overflying in the computer, it is now, and I suggest Tempe, that you do take a look, because heaven knows, you do dislike paying anything more than necessary. Overflying is stealing, depresses already abysmal morale and costs you MONEY.
Finally, having thought about the reserve situation and the fact that both sides are pretty intractable, I submit that any real change to how we are scheduled and the need for change will have to be company led. DP mentioned in his last crew news that compensation and scheduling will have to start to deal with the new reality of no-growth airlines. This requires a completely different approach to how the flight attendant job is approached schedule wise.
It is incompatible with seniority and voting for the union to lead any real change. Blockholders outnumber reserves, have significant years "earning the perks" and will oppose the elimination of what they have worked for. It is incumbent on the company to re-write the reserve book, while accomodating the blockholder need for flexibility.
The easiest way to approach this would be via compensation. What if you made MORE being on reserve? It wouldn't change seniority, if you're senior you'd get to choose whether or not you wanted to put up with the inconvenience of being on call and bid accordingly. If you're junior, well, nothing changes, except you're compensated for living on a leash. Of course the complications of this idea are huge, and again, it would require real muscle from the company to prevail, since it's such a 180 degree view of the view that juniority= on call.
You saw some of the hostility that would occur in the early days of the ETB, when reserves were pulling in over 100 hours, but not actually flying it, since the 71 hours were "on call" hours and not actual flight hours. Nasty messages like "not for reserves" popped up in the comment section of the ETB. It always struck me as intellectual laziness on the part of these blockholders, who were oblivious to the fact that these reserves were working 30 days per month, being on call and doing ETB.
Well, I'm back off to the wilderness. Couldn't resist this one.
Merry Christmas!
flybynite
Veteran
You are so right.
It would mess up the reserves if it went pay and credit but it could be handled in such a way so the b/h's could get pay and credit and just leave it as is for the reserves because the ETB is so restricted the reserves can't pick up much of anything now.
It would mess up the reserves if it went pay and credit but it could be handled in such a way so the b/h's could get pay and credit and just leave it as is for the reserves because the ETB is so restricted the reserves can't pick up much of anything now.
As long as you have C.A. calling the shots for the AFA in the scheduling dept, you will never see any changes that remotely benefit reserves. She is just out for her and her senior cronies. She could care less and won't do anything to enen try to make things better.
jimntx
Veteran
I'll give you the answers that the APFA here at AA gives any "junior" f/a who has a problem with any senior f/a perk...
1."You'll understand when you are more senior."
2. "We struck in 93 for that privilege."
3. "You'll appreciate it later."
4. "You're junior. You need to just pay your dues and be quiet."
5. All of the above.
When I'm not so tired, I would like to comment on a couple of things that were said about the way things work at AA that are not correct. Right now, I am too tired.
1."You'll understand when you are more senior."
2. "We struck in 93 for that privilege."
3. "You'll appreciate it later."
4. "You're junior. You need to just pay your dues and be quiet."
5. All of the above.
When I'm not so tired, I would like to comment on a couple of things that were said about the way things work at AA that are not correct. Right now, I am too tired.
jimntx
Veteran
Not totally correct. The system here at AA is more complex than that, and the company cares very much about "controlling" open time.
It's rather complicated, but if anyone would like to know how it operates here at AA, pm me, and I will send you an explanation. I don't want to post it here, because it's too long, and "how we do it" is only coincidentally related to "how you do it" which is what you have to live with right now.
Just let me say that lineholders (aka blockholders) can not directly pick up trips from Open Time. They can trade with OT under certain limited circumstances, but they can not trade with OT within one day (calendar day) of the trip. For instance, trading with OT for tomorrow's trips closed at midnight last night. Or, they can "go on Make-Up" on their scheduled days off and Crew Schedule can assign them trips from the available Open Time. Getting a trip from MU for tomorrow would only occur between 12noon and 1400 today.
sharktooth
Veteran
- Jan 27, 2006
- 1,846
- 0
C.A. can only do what the MEC allows her to do.
Though you might not know it, it sounds to me like your beef is with your MEC.
Furloughd4now
Veteran
K, so here's what happened. 1 day trip, FA C "has" to fly and was assigned by scheduling for this 1-day. It overprojects him, BUT he HAS the weekend obligation to "touch" .... Scheduling told him he MUST take the trip.
FA B Picks up trip in AIL. She averages 130 a month, mostly through AIL....
Me? Rsv with 0 hours to date. My trip was ETB, was lucky to get that.
Is this right? No, but it is being done on a regular basis with no repercusssions (sp?)
FA B Picks up trip in AIL. She averages 130 a month, mostly through AIL....
Me? Rsv with 0 hours to date. My trip was ETB, was lucky to get that.
Is this right? No, but it is being done on a regular basis with no repercusssions (sp?)
aredeeyou22
Veteran
- Nov 12, 2003
- 829
- 17
100% wrong.
CA does not "call the shots" in the scheduling department, she simply builds lines. And, she takes the time to hand build more secondary lines after the computer stops generating them. Since the "senior cronies" don't bid secondary lines, clearly that shows that she is not "just out" for them. She takes the time to create as many lines as possible from the open time, benefitting the junior people.
You also incorrectly state that she is not interested in trying to "make things better." Tell me, have you ever spoken to the woman? She knows her stuff, and will be happy to sit down and talk with you about the scheduling/ line building process. Try obtaining some information about what she does before you spout off ignorant, false comments. I am a reserve, and have learned a lot by speaking to her on a cross country flight a few months back....
Why don't you channel your anger where it belongs: the company.
You've been wanting out since Nov of 2005. You still can't get out? Sad....
PowerUpPowerDown
Member
- Jul 29, 2005
- 90
- 0
Just an FYI, maybe AFA needs to go look at how CO builds their trips and their contract as well.
Co FA's who fly at least 325 hours every quarter are rewarded by CO with a hefty 105 hour bonus each quarter.Also, they are larger than US and have far fewer reserves because they constantly are building lines up till the 5th of each month to reduce the number of reserves they have.
FlightChic
Veteran
- Feb 18, 2007
- 954
- 0
That sounds great but US doesn't want anyone to be happy, especially reserves. They have a conspiracy against us and they do everything they can to make us all miserable so we will all eventually quit but of course nobody is quitting. Everybody is too miserable to quit.
Also I'm sure that something like that would cost an extra penny and we can't be spending any more pennies now can we? I'm sure the union wouldn't go for it because it somehow would be a concession for the blockholders since I'm sure CO doesn't have a bid sheet and 8 chances to rearrange one's schedule like US. Let's face it! Our contract sucks and it probably won't be much better even after we get a new contract (if we ever even get one in my lifetime at US). We'll continue to have 20 year + reserves, things won't change. It wouldn't surprise me if the company gave the AFA a choice of higher compensation and no bid sheet or lower compensation and a bid sheet the AFA would choose lower pay with the bid sheet. That's how sacred it is to them! :down: As long as they allow the cronies to have their flexibility at the expense of the rest of us, there will never be an equitable system like that at US. It's too bad! :down:
