Obama 2012-Are You Better Off Than Four Years Ago?

[dapoes]

Do I really need to dumb things down for you? I try to reserve my oversimplification for people on here that need it. Okay, let's try this: substitute the words "widespread frustration spanning both ends of the political spectrum regarding the end result" for "the rub."

Not sure what your are rubbing but you need to stop now. Nice deflection and non answer. You said:

EFCA is DOA, and universal health care is a joke. You can chalk a lot of that up to the party of "no," (especially the latter)

The republicans were not part of that process and was shoved thru by your party. They wrote the legislation and locked everyone else out. So how are the republicans responsible for that?

Same with EFCA, that could have been easily passed via the majority they held. Sooooo???

(chuckle) Of course...

All I could think of was his former costar, Victoria Jackson, who has become a bit of an apparatchik for the Tea Party.

Uh ok whatever...you still haven answered my other question:

How are you personally under assault more now then ever?

 

[Kev3188]

The republicans were not part of that process and was shoved thru by your party. They wrote the legislation and locked everyone else out. So how are the republicans responsible for that?

Same with EFCA, that could have been easily passed via the majority they held. Sooooo???

Okay... AGAIN: I see this administration as a failure, but for the exact opposite reasons you might. You think they've gone too far; I think they haven't gone far enough. With EFCA (which obviously drove a lot of labor support Obama's way during the election), they caved to corporate interest, and it died on the vine. With Health Care, corporate interest again blocked the original plan, and what the public was left with was a shadow of what it could've been.

Uh ok whatever...

No, not "whatever." Is she or is she not a cheerleader for the extreme right?

How are you personally under assault more now then ever?

I have answered that question at least a dozen times over the last few months. Seriously, if you're going to respond to what I post, please read it all first.



When you have politicians bowing to corporate interests at the expense of the following, it affects me:

Stripping the autonomy of elected local governments

The fight against human rights

Ignoring state law

Ignoring state constitutions

The repeal of environmental laws (you know, on account of my needing clean water & air to live)

The advocacy of centralized government, while advertising it as just the opposite

The list goes on and on...

 

[dapoes]

Okay... AGAIN: I see this administration as a failure, but for the exact opposite reasons you might. You think they've gone too far; I think they haven't gone far enough. With EFCA (which obviously drove a lot of labor support Obama's way during the election), they caved to corporate interest, and it died on the vine. With Health Care, corporate interest again blocked the original plan, and what the public was left with was a shadow of what it could've been.

And you blame the republican party for that? ie: "You can chalk a lot of that up to the party of "no," (especially the latter)" Thats a bit of a stretch Kev.

No, not "whatever." Is she or is she not a cheerleader for the extreme right?

Yes she is, un-apologetically as a matter of fact. But she also not a recipient of a fraudulent election to gain a majority in the senate either. So your diversion is useless.

I have answered that question at least a dozen times over the last few months. Seriously, if you're going to respond to what I post, please read it all first.

When you have politicians bowing to corporate interests at the expense of the following, it affects me:

Stripping the autonomy of elected local governments
The fight against human rights
Ignoring state law
Ignoring state constitutions
The repeal of environmental laws (you know, on account of my needing clean water & air to live)
The advocacy of centralized government, while advertising it as just the opposite
The list goes on and on...

Which in reality hasn't effected you personally at all. One could say the above hand wringing has only gotten worse under Obama then at any time in history. Right?

 

[Kev3188]

Yes she is, un-apologetically as a matter of fact. But she also not a recipient of a fraudulent election to gain a majority in the senate either. So your diversion is useless.

Take a deep breath. Not everything is a conspiracy against you.

It's not a "diversion." Actually, it wasn't a counterpoint at all. I was simply drawing a blank at who you were referring to, and since Jackson's values would seem to align closely with yours, couldn't imagine you referring to her as a "clown."

Which in reality hasn't effected you personally at all.

You sure?

 

[dapoes]

Take a deep breath. Not everything is a conspiracy against you.

It's not a "diversion." Actually, it wasn't a counterpoint at all. I was simply drawing a blank at who you were referring to, and since Jackson's values would seem to align closely with yours, couldn't imagine you referring to her as a "clown."

It is a diversion to the subject at hand ie: what relevance does Victoria Jackson have to AF's fraudulent election to gain the majority in the senate?

You sure?

Absolutely.

 

[SparrowHawk]

It is a diversion to the subject at hand ie: what relevance does Victoria Jackson have to AF's fraudulent election to gain the majority in the senate?

The folks here in MN do a pretty good job with elections. They err on the side of caution and recounts are quite common. Outside the Twin Cities area is get rural with a capital "R" quick, fast and in a hurry. Al Franken's election was hotly contested and even though I've only been here less than a year things are pretty above board.

MN is a strange state politically and they don't eat the RNC/DNC dog food all that much. I mean this is a state that has given us national figures such as:

Hubert Humphrey
Walter Mondale
Eugene McCarthy
Michele Bachman
Tim Pawlenty
Jesse Ventura

That's a pretty broad cross section of views to come from one state.

 

[dapoes]

The folks here in MN do a pretty good job with elections. They err on the side of caution and recounts are quite common. Outside the Twin Cities area is get rural with a capital "R" quick, fast and in a hurry. Al Franken's election was hotly contested and even though I've only been here less than a year things are pretty above board.

MN is a strange state politically and they don't eat the RNC/DNC dog food all that much. I mean this is a state that has given us national figures such as:

Hubert Humphrey
Walter Mondale
Eugene McCarthy
Michele Bachman
Tim Pawlenty
Jesse Ventura

That's a pretty broad cross section of views to come from one state.

Sorry charlie, but research by many, including the MSM had proven Al Franken's election was fraudulent as they come.

As the Wall Street Journal's John Fund reports, Minnesota Democrat Al Franken’s narrow, 312-vote victory in 2008 over incumbent Sen. Norm Coleman may have come as the result of people being allowed to vote who, under existing law, shouldn’t have been.

… At least 341 convicted felons voted in Minneapolis's Hennepin County, the state's largest, and another 52 voted illegally in St. Paul's Ramsey County, the state's second largest. Dan McGrath, head of Minnesota Majority, says that only conclusive matches were included in the group's totals. The number of felons voting in those two counties alone exceeds Mr. Franken's victory margin.

The democrats needed Al Franken to complete the Senate 60 seat majority so they pulled out all the stops on this one.

 

[SparrowHawk]

Sorry charlie, but research by many, including the MSM had proven Al Franken's election was fraudulent as they come.



The democrats needed Al Franken to complete the Senate 60 seat majority so they pulled out all the stops on this one.

Either way it's a moot point and old news. Besides which what's not mentioned is just exactly is the scope of the recount? I don't know MN election law but if there was a way to overturn the election it would have been attempted. Notice what the article said. "May Have" as in we;ve no hard evidence except the word of an admittedly biased group. Smoking gun? You Betcha!! Unfortunately no Body.

Move on nothing to see here. Why play the blame game, 2012 is coming and time to run the b*stards out.

 

[Kev3188]

It is a diversion to the subject at hand ie: what relevance does Victoria Jackson have to AF's fraudulent election to gain the majority in the senate?

It's only a diversion if you think it is...


The relevance is that she and Franken were both SNL stars, and that she was the only one I could think of when you mentioned the show. No more, no less.

 

[dapoes]

Either way it's a moot point and old news. Besides which what's not mentioned is just exactly is the scope of the recount? I don't know MN election law but if there was a way to overturn the election it would have been attempted. Notice what the article said. "May Have" as in we;ve no hard evidence except the word of an admittedly biased group. Smoking gun? You Betcha!! Unfortunately no Body.

Move on nothing to see here. Why play the blame game, 2012 is coming and time to run the b*stards out.

Be that as it may, it was relevant to note as the argument was how the republicans were a party of no and somehow blocked legislation when the Dems had the presidency and both houses as a result of on Al Frankens election. So I take issue when people make that ridiculous ignorant argument.

And why was there no investigation to push Al Frankens election? Guess why...

Minnesota Majority has experienced the DOJ’s refusal to investigate these kind of cases first-hand. On November 17th of 2008 (immediately following the 2008 General Election and while the Coleman-Franken recount battle was getting underway), Minnesota Majority president Jeff Davis sent a certified letter to then Voting Section chief of the Civil Rights Division at the DOJ, Christopher Coates, requesting an investigation into apparent failures to comply with HAVA by Secretary of State Mark Ritchie. No response was forthcoming.

Since the DOJ in Washington DC failed to follow up on Davis’ complaint, Minnesota Majority contacted the local FBI office and lodged the same complaint. Special Agent Brian Kinney responded and visited the Minnesota Majority office to examine Minnesota Majority’s findings. At that time, he said, “based on what I see here there is more than enough evidence to initiate an internal complaint.” He gave his assurances that he would bring the matter to the attention of his supervisors. There was no further follow-up.

By October of 2009, Minnesota Majority had compiled evidence of further violations of HAVA in Minnesota, including a finding that ineligible felons were not being detected and flagged for challenge or removal from the voter rolls. This resulted in hundreds of fraudulent votes by ineligible felons being counted in Minnesota’s 2008 election. Davis sent another certified letter to Voting Section Chief Christopher Coates. Like the first complaint from nearly a year prior, the second letter went unanswered.

Minnesota Majority’s experience supports J. Christopher Adams’ claims that the DOJ’s policy is not to pursue violations of HAVA’s anti-fraud provisions. The dismissal of the voter intimidation charges against members of the New Black Panther Party who brandished nightsticks outside a Philadelphia polling place during the 2008 General Election was the last straw for Adams, who resigned in protest. He claimed that his superiors also ordered himself and other attorneys not to comply with subpoenas issued by the US Civil Rights commission, placing them in what Adams called, “legal limbo.”

Voting Section Chief Christopher Coates, who worked with Adams on the New Black Panther Party voter intimidation case was demoted and transferred to a post in South Carolina earlier this year.

The Civil Rights Commission has subpoenaed Coates to testify on the matter but his DOJ employers are currently blocking his testimony.

 

[dapoes]

It's only a diversion if you think it is...


The relevance is that she and Franken were both SNL stars, and that she was the only one I could think of when you mentioned the show. No more, no less.

Oh uh okay, that's great Kev. Dodge ball must have been your best sport in school.

 

[SparrowHawk]

STIMULUS KILLED 1 MILLION JOBS
An extensive new study conducted by Timothy Conley from the University of Western Ontario, Canada Economics Department and Bill Dupor of Ohio State University Economics Department, shows the trillion dollar boondoggle known as the stimulus bill, which President Obama has credited over and over again for "saving and/or creating" thousands of jobs, actually killed 1 million private sector jobs. The study also shows that despite the entire idea of the stimulus creating "shovel ready," or construction/infrastructure jobs, infrastructure employment has drastically decreased despite stimulus spending. How’s that hope and change for ya’?

 

[SparrowHawk]

 

[SparrowHawk]

Here are the facts about Obama’s record on the economy:

1. At Obama’s Inauguration, the price at the pump for gas was $1.83. It has more than DOUBLED since and now some say it could even TRIPLE to $5 or $6 a gallon!
2. The official U.S. unemployment rate has jumped back up to 9%. But this pathetic number only puts a smiley face on the real misery. Unemployment spikes to a whopping 15.9% when one counts Americans who’ve grown so discouraged they’ve given up even looking for work or those who’ve settled for part-time work (Bureau of Labor Statistics).
3. According to Zillow, home prices have plummeted “at their fastest rate since the Lehman collapse.” Now called “zombie homeowners” because they’re financially walking dead, an all-time record “16.3 million families are upside-down on their home loans.”
4. A study by the New America Foundation finds “8.5 million people receiving unemployment checks and over 40 million receiving food stamps. At the current pace of job creation, the economy won't return to full employment until 2018.”
5. Wal-Mart’s CEO says its customers are “running out of money” with purchases “dropping off by the end of the month even more than last year"
6. The Wall Street Journal says “the dollar today is lower than at any time since major currencies began floating in 1973. It is 13% lower than it was 30 years ago and 28% below its 2002 recent peak.”
7. Standard & Poor’s, the independent credit rating agency, downgraded the outlook for the United States to negative from stable, saying within two years there's at least a one-in-three chance it could lower its long-term rating.

SOOOOO How is that Hope and Change working out for You?

How many years will Bush be out of office before it stops being his fault? Give me a hard number? 3 years? 4 Years? Never?

When EXACTLY does Barack Obama become responsible for our current state of affairs? Never? When Bush dies? Give me a date?

When are the lies and spin of Geithner and the Goldman Sachs mafia running the shadow government going to be challenged for the utter bullshit they are?

When will the average American wake up to the fact that they've been not just screwed, but royally screwed without condom or lube?

The fact is, Obamanomics is a disaster – the meltdown after the earthquake.

 

[Ms Tree]

Obama will take responsibility for his share of the screw up when every other politician accepts responsibility for their share. Let me know when that happens.