Your #1 statement is ommitting the fact that if NWA imposes a contract on the pilots that lets them outsource, like Newco, there won't be many pilots left to have leverage when the contract expires out of bankruptcy. The pilots will make the same fatal mistake that AMFA did; they will let themselves be reduced in numbers over time and then if the remaining strike like AMFA did, they will be replaced forever and ALPA at NW will have been busted. There are a lot of pilots flying for the regionals building jet time and they are not all that happy with ALPA. And I wouldn't count on the judge being able to force anyone to work.
NWA Pilot Strike?
- Thread starter PlayTheOdds
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Your #1 statement is ommitting the fact that if NWA imposes a contract on the pilots that lets them outsource, like Newco, there won't be many pilots left to have leverage when the contract expires out of bankruptcy. The pilots will make the same fatal mistake that AMFA did; they will let themselves be reduced in numbers over time and then if the remaining strike like AMFA did, they will be replaced forever and ALPA at NW will have been busted. There are a lot of pilots flying for the regionals building jet time and they are not all that happy with ALPA. And I wouldn't count on the judge being able to force anyone to work.
OP
PlayTheOdds
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NWA continues to fly. Any new news?
L
luvn737s
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Hmm, so DTW MSP and MEM will have to live without substantial air service? And all the millions of people who used to travel on NWA will sit home? Every pilot who wants to fly will find abundant work opportunities.
But you still don't understand. The issue, if they go on strike, is not about what's good for them. It is what is good for the profession. If they have the courage (look that word up when you get a chance) to stand their ground they will have prevented the collapse of the piloting profession.
This is not about working a few more hours for a few bucks less. Steenland is tirelessly cutting the template for the future of the entire industry. He doesn't have any idea what it will take for NWA to succeed, but he's absolutely certain that the death of ALPA will be the greatest benefit of all, regardless of outcome. The NWA pilots have the opportunity to prove him wrong, yet they are aware it may cost them their jobs.
robbedagain
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well you will find it far different than what my slogan says. I am one of themost respected at my carrier. when something goes in too many ways, i find a solution. how can you say you know more about some things than me when you dont even know me? your attitude on this board/post shows that you think you know it all. I have never smoked and will not smoke cause it causes death. I work the ramp and ops. I would not mind being a mechanic as i am mechanically incline but not at NWA due to their horrendous treatment of their unionized employees.
whaledriver
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You are 100% correct my friend. NWA-ALPA will not roll over on this one. Even if it may cost us our jobs...
MCI transplant
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<_< Sad,but true!!!!Unfortunately, you are right. The very possibility of Lorenzo getting hold of TWA caused the unions to run to Icahn, who as we all know bled TWA to death. So actually Lorenzo indirectly caused TWA's destruction while he was directly responsiblie for EAL's destruction. Another thing we obviously have in common, we both ended up at AA.
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PlayTheOdds
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If the pilots strike and are replaced just as the AMT's were. They have proven nothing and lost their jobs. You guys how ever can still have your fun cheering from the sidelines.
robbedagain
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If the Pilots Strike, then it is all over at NWA. You simply cannot put scab replacements in the cockpit to fly the plane. Scab pilots will not be ready in time as they must undergo FAA physical and training
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PlayTheOdds
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It is not going to be as difficult as you think Robbed. I would be willing to bet that in the event of a strike the 100 seat and less flights are already covered. I would also be willing to bet that the international flights are covered as well. Now your just looking at hiring replacements to fill in the rest. It would not surprise me one bit if that was covered as well.
767jetz
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PTO,
I don't know where you get your info, but what makes you think this flying you refer to is "covered?"
If the pilot's strike, there is no time to get pilots up and running in a short period of time, even IF they had replacements lined up. (And don't be so sure that pilots will be lining up to scab for NWA. WOn't happen IMO.)
A full A320 course at UA for example takes 6 weeks. And that's for a pilot already working for UA. A new hire would have to first be trained in company ops specs. So add another 4 weeks to that.
Even as a 767 pilot, if I went to work anywhere else, by law I would have to go through that company's full training and standardization course. And by the way, who do you think trains the NWA pilots? Other NWA pilots! So a strike by ALPA would also close the training center. So in effect there would be no one to train replacement workers. (ie: SCABS)
Go back to UA's strike in '85. UA already hired potential scabs months before the strike. And most of them didn't cross when the strike came down. Same with Eastern.
Bottom line: Pilot's have more to lose by striking, so they do it with more reservation. But if they are pushed to strike the airline WILL stop in it's tracks. And in BK the money will run out within days.
This is MUCH different than the situation with the mechanics.
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PlayTheOdds
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Simply speculation. I really don't see NWA pushing the pilots to the point of striking if they do not have a way to keep the airline flying. They have brought this way to far to let a pilot strike, that they seem to be pushing for, bring everything to a halt.
robbedagain
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NWA is PUSHING the pilots already with the mock up of MDA--you know the MIDATLANTIC thing that failed the USAIR pilots. It is a nowonder that NWA pilots do not want to go the route of MidAtlantic Pilots.
Kev3188
Veteran
I would say that the pilots have much more pull than you're giving them credit for, PTO....
From the NWA ALPA hotline of 17.Jan.06
Dollaway said management informed ALPA it would drop its "Newco" demand in exchange for the ability to outsource flying on an unlimited number of 76-seat and smaller aircraft. ALPA continues to offer to fly 51-100 seat aircraft at competitive costs and can find no economic justification for non-NWA pilots to fly such aircraft. So far, NWA management has expressed no interest in ALPA's fair and industry-competitive NStar proposal.
Drop "Newco?" After all the rhetoric and bombast of the last few months? I think this says that even NWA mgmt. is aware of the gravity of a pilot strike.
Where do you think they would get replacement pilots from? Almost every other carrier is ALPA, including a lot of ACMI outfits. I highly doubt that their MEC's would go for that (remember Champion Air's MEC helping NWA's pilots with info, etc when NW tried to use them to run flights a short while?).
From the NWA ALPA hotline of 17.Jan.06
Dollaway said management informed ALPA it would drop its "Newco" demand in exchange for the ability to outsource flying on an unlimited number of 76-seat and smaller aircraft. ALPA continues to offer to fly 51-100 seat aircraft at competitive costs and can find no economic justification for non-NWA pilots to fly such aircraft. So far, NWA management has expressed no interest in ALPA's fair and industry-competitive NStar proposal.
Drop "Newco?" After all the rhetoric and bombast of the last few months? I think this says that even NWA mgmt. is aware of the gravity of a pilot strike.
Where do you think they would get replacement pilots from? Almost every other carrier is ALPA, including a lot of ACMI outfits. I highly doubt that their MEC's would go for that (remember Champion Air's MEC helping NWA's pilots with info, etc when NW tried to use them to run flights a short while?).
767jetz is right on the mark. I work in the building where our pilots are trained, and can assure everyone that pilots can not be replaced in mass. If they walk, it's lights out. That's why they call it a murder/suicide option.
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PlayTheOdds
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I agree that they can't easily be replaced, I just don't see how NWA can push the issue this far and not be prepared for a strike by the pilots. Why go this far just to drop the ball now. If this is indeed the case NWA is creating a lot of unnecessary friction among its employees.
