Nov/Dec 2013 Pilot Discussion

[Reed Richards]

 
 
This is good.  I feel like the ALPA Concerned Pilots Committee is being resurrected.  You seem to be provoking a movement.   Folks are taking this stuff waayyy too personal.  
 
 

Many of those ALPA Concerned Pilots were the honorable oppostion, and many have joined USAPA over the years anyway, and served on our Committees.  And many of them are speaking out now on current events. RR

 

[Phoenix]

[SIZE=10.5pt]You have really gone off the reservation on this entire idea of monies. The PHL and CLT reps legally have had an open forum to spew their lies, and you think those on the receiving end simply have to sit back and "let the pilots decide" based on only that only source of information?  What a stupid premise, and you making fun of the same process that got USAPA elected it laughable. But that's ok,  that’s what forums are for, enjoy.  RR[/SIZE]

 
 
The president and the vice president need "you" (a website of dubious origen) to solicit money so they can effectively speak the truth to the members?  I had no idea.  How long have the president and vice president been allowing the members to suffer in the dark?  Apparently things are much more dire than you claim.  
 
P.S. The Airline Forums' Board Rules state that solicitations are inappropriate.  
http://www.airlineforums.com/index.php?app=forums&module=extras&section=boardrules

 

[nycbusdriver]

Nov 14, 2011
 

 

 
 
True that USAPA may attempt .....

 
PI, you really need to work on getting the quote notations figured out.  Your entire post came across as YOUR words, not Res'.
 
At the very least you can revert to second-grade English skills and use quotation marks and a phrase to attribute the words.  I admit that since the forum MFWICs changed the software about 6 months ago, the ability to post with quotes has gotten truly cumbersome.

 

[EastUS1]

Res judicata: "I won't go into detail, but I'm getting the April time frame from folks who have intimate knowledge off all the moving parts to this."
 
It's an honest challenge to discern which of those two best presents as clearly the most delusional, or even as the finest candidate for quite possibly being the stupidest person now living. Perhaps a few more fine prophesies and T-Minus countdown clocks could be provided so's to break the tie....?

 
Pi brat: Per nyc's observation; My above was obviously NOT directed in any way towards you, which I'm sure was clear to yourself and all that've followed pre and Res's hysterical nonsense, but that might not have been evident to readers that haven't done so.

 

[snapthis]

 
 
The president and the vice president need "you" (a website of dubious origen) to solicit money so they can effectively speak the truth to the members?  I had no idea.  How long have the president and vice president been allowing the members to suffer in the dark?  Apparently things are much more dire than you claim.  
 
P.S. The Airline Forums' Board Rules state that solicitations are inappropriate.  
http://www.airlineforums.com/index.php?app=forums&module=extras&section=boardrules

 
Dire indeed. West MIGS are discussing the issues and voting.
 
Here's a letter on it's way to Bradford by a voter.
 
Mr.Bradford:

Any union officer who ignores inquiries from one-third of his membership deserves to be recalled. During your tenures as president and vice-president, you never explained to the West pilots USAPA’s alleged legitimate union purpose for desiring to alter the Nicolau Award. You never explained why date-of-hire is better for the West than the Nicolau Award. You foolishly and arrogantly discounted the West voting power of well more than one-thousand votes. You never explained what you would do for the West or dissenting East pilots if they do not vote to recall you. Those are just a few of your blunders, which have led to our industry’s most divided and impotent union. Of course the West is completely unified, but USAPA, AKA the East, is in shambles.

Ironic, isn’t it Mr. Bradford, that the minority, but extremely unified West pilot group probably holds your political fate in its hands? Most West pilots will probably vote to recall you, but don’t mistake any West votes to keep you in office as votes in support of you or your “enshrined” agenda of date-of-hire. Many West pilots think you’re a fine symbol of USAPA dysfunction, and prefer you remain USAPA’s figurehead. Still, I’m sure that in your delusion you will claim any West votes opposed to your recall as votes for you and DOH, just as USAPA claimed that West votes for MOU II were actually votes for DOH.

Your union (and as a founder it is your union,Mr. Bradford), remains in complete disarray. Your future as an officer is one way or another coming soon to an end. I think I’m gonna vote to give you the boot, just so you can return to the line all the sooner, where you can be come face-to-face with those West and East members whom you imagine admire or respect you. In the spirit of unity I’m gonna vote to give Mr. Hummel the boot, too, so the two of you can leave as one. I'm not going to tell you how I'm going to vote on Division of House.

There’s one last hope for you, Mr. Bradford: January 8th, 2014,is the voting deadline. You have until then to convince the “boot Bradford” West voters why they should leave you in office. If you really are passionate about staying in office,and if you really mean to include, instead of ignore the West, you’ll explain in a letter addressed to West pilots what’s in it for them if they vote in opposition to your recall.

West Pilot, Voting Member

 

[Pi brat]

 
PI, you really need to work on getting the quote notations figured out.  Your entire post came across as YOUR words, not Res'.
 
At the very least you can revert to second-grade English skills and use quotation marks and a phrase to attribute the words.  I admit that since the forum MFWICs changed the software about 6 months ago, the ability to post with quotes has gotten truly cumbersome.

You're right nyc, some sloppy work. Too late to change it now. I'll just restate it!

 

[Pi brat]

Nov 14, 2011
 

 

 
 
True that USAPA may attempt to fight the importation of Addington evidence but every indication is the Judge will allow it. You guys have a very different legal team moving fwd. and they seem to be focused on cleaning up the Mess $e$ham left you. It wouldn't surprise me if USAPA doesn't fight the importation.  I won't go into detail, but I'm getting the April time frame from folks who have intimate knowledge off all the moving parts to this. West Legal, East, (new) Legal, Company Legal, and the work habits of Judge Silver.  Once she starts a case, she stops everything until it's finished. Luckily, thanks to Cleary's moronic illegal job action and the accompanying Injunction, the case now has her attention. This will move very quickly after Dec. 1st and the ball will be dropped in the company's court where they will act sooner rather than later. This has gone on long enough.
 
By "over" I mean the legal noose will be fully clamped around USAPAs neck and their feet are fully off the ground. The majority on the East will not entertain years more abuse for a handful of angry FO's. They let you drive the ship the last several years and you guys buried it in the ground. Even if under appeal I expect the company to come up with a contract that will pass 51% and do what they can to force a vote on it. The BPR is already under tremendous pressure to get a contract. When Kasher fails and Silver hangs liability on the company and they refuse to entertain DOH, the BPR will either acquiesce to the majority or be thrown out. The AFO's will be fully unable to stop the momentum towards getting OFF LOA93 ASAP when those two pieces fall into place.

That will be by this April. The first contractual vote...NIC Inclusive...will pass 85%

As nycbusdriver said, my post last night made it appear that I was stealing the resjude's words. What is printed above is all his, I can take no credit. My apologizes res, certainly don't want to steal your work!

 

[Pi brat]

 
Pi brat: Per nyc's observation; My above was obviously NOT directed in any way towards you, which I'm sure was clear to yourself and all that've followed pre and Res's hysterical nonsense, but that might not have been evident to readers that haven't done so.

 

 
Pi brat: Per nyc's observation; My above was obviously NOT directed in any way towards you, which I'm sure was clear to yourself and all that've followed pre and Res's hysterical nonsense, but that might not have been evident to readers that haven't done so.

Understood and appreciated. The posts were a result of quotes copied and the clean up job was ineffective!

 

[Boeing Driver]

Well, well…  The low life AWA scabs have now completely abandoned their pretense at just trying to protect what they brought to the merger, and are now overtly and without shame attempting to steal East jobs.
 
Not very surprising considering the caliber of individual we are dealing with, and especially considering the indisputable fact that the very best they were able to achieve on their own merits was to get hired by the bottom of the barrel scumbag outfit AWA.
 
Boeing Driver

 

[EastUS1]

Cancun is expensive.

...And a complete waste of time for anyone who's not some smashed kid on spring break. The Caymans are more the the ticket methinks. Good diving and Brit-type hospitality, etc.

 

[EastUS1]

Well, well…  The low life AWA scabs have now completely abandoned their pretense at just trying to protect what they brought to the merger, and are now overtly and without shame attempting to steal East jobs.
 
Not very surprising considering the caliber of individual we are dealing with, and especially considering the indisputable fact that the very best they were able to achieve on their own merits was to get hired by the bottom of the barrel scumbag outfit AWA.
 
Boeing Driver

 
Pretty much, although there are some both decent and intelligent folks within the west ranks. They mostly don't post here though. That much is routinely made obvious to all. Res/pre/snap/nic4us et al?..If you've got a minute to again demonstrate that last, please feel free. 😉

 

[EastUS1]

[SIZE=10.5pt]If those in the 25% of our group that did not agree with the MOU,  that success, choose to take over the union and throw us into yet another losing situation, what debt do I owe any of you? [/SIZE]

 The proper debt attendant to the position you hold. Whatever our differences of opinion; it is expected and appreciated that you do your best in these "interesting times", as the old Chinese curse would have it. I'd say the same for the current president, but can have NO idea of WTF he's actually up to, nor can anyone else (at least outside of management), it sadly seems.
 
[SIZE=10.5pt]"We continue to fight liars and thieves in management, they will take and steal from us at every opportunity.[/SIZE]" Indeed. Especially with team tempe...?...T'was ever thus, and must be the rationally expected norm for the future. The good folks at American can't yet have any idea of what they're in for.

 

[Claxon]

Nov 14, 2011
 

 


 
 

True that USAPA may attempt to fight the importation of Addington evidence but every indication is the Judge will allow it. You guys have a very different legal team moving fwd. and they seem to be focused on cleaning up the Mess $e$ham left you. It wouldn't surprise me if USAPA doesn't fight the importation.  I won't go into detail, but I'm getting the April time frame from folks who have intimate knowledge off all the moving parts to this. West Legal, East, (new) Legal, Company Legal, and the work habits of Judge Silver.  Once she starts a case, she stops everything until it's finished. Luckily, thanks to Cleary's moronic illegal job action and the accompanying Injunction, the case now has her attention. This will move very quickly after Dec. 1st and the ball will be dropped in the company's court where they will act sooner rather than later. This has gone on long enough.
 
By "over" I mean the legal noose will be fully clamped around USAPAs neck and their feet are fully off the ground. The majority on the East will not entertain years more abuse for a handful of angry FO's. They let you drive the ship the last several years and you guys buried it in the ground. Even if under appeal I expect the company to come up with a contract that will pass 51% and do what they can to force a vote on it. The BPR is already under tremendous pressure to get a contract. When Kasher fails and Silver hangs liability on the company and they refuse to entertain DOH, the BPR will either acquiesce to the majority or be thrown out. The AFO's will be fully unable to stop the momentum towards getting OFF LOA93 ASAP when those two pieces fall into place.
That will be by this April. The first contractual vote...NIC Inclusive...will pass 85%

Res Judicata, probably the most psychotic of the bunch. Unbelievable.
The FBI was absolutely on the money when they bagged him.I would love to know if it was the sex with farm animals or recreational pharma that pegged the needles.

 

[EastUS1]

Res Judicata, probably the most psychotic of the bunch. Unbelievable.
The FBI was absolutely on the money when they bagged him.I would love to know if it was the sex with farm animals or recreational pharma that pegged the needles.

 
I've earlier mentioned being involved with a study of the efficacy of polygraphs in my now-prehistoric university days. It was fully demonstrated that individuals' possessive of self-disciplined minds, and by employing various meditation techniques, could completely spoof the devices. No worries concerning the disciplined mind concept within your referenced case though. 😉

 

[Keroseneuser]

My observations for the week.
 
West pilot now calling the widebodies "their" airplanes,  absent anything from any court or agreement that settles the 9 year long dispute.
 
Current Junior 330 Capt at USAirways is a Oct 1982 Hire date.
Current Junior 767 Capt. March 1986
 
Junior 330 Capt. was flying airplanes for this company the year before America West ever flew a single route.
 
#1 west pilot on current seniority list is a June 1983 hire,  the senior 1996 hire is number 594.    By the west line of thinking they should have at least 594 of their pilots senior to a guy that was hired 8 months before their airline ever flew an airplane.
 
PreChillie west poster who is believed to be a 1996 hire thinks it is her right to be a 330 Capt now.....14 year difference in hire date.    And no that 1982 hired guy did not sit furlough for 14 years,  Don't think the 82 to 86 folks ever sat a single day of furlough.
 
The west position has never been one of "protecting what they brought to the merger"   The entire AOL thing is about a land grab of something their airline did not have.     If it had been about protecting what they brought to the merger that would have been an easy fix, and 99% of the east would have zero problems with it.
 
I see the writing on the wall,   AOL is going to be demanding "their rightful capt. positions on the 777"  in the near future.
 
 
For my take on what is ahead?     Protect each groups widebody flying, 5, 10 years, whatever.    Protect each groups retirement attrition.    Other than that we are all pretty much on the same playing field aircraft wise.
 
 
I would not be surprised if in that meeting on Friday with the company and APA that AOL has already floated an early version of a 777 and AA attrition land grab.