Nov/Dec 2013 Fleet Service Discussion

[Tim Nelson]

Couple of things, you say it's up to the membership, but let's face it, most of the membership have no idea who they are voting for on a ticket. That's why I say the people leading these tickets needs to do a much better job on choosing their candidates. Also who says someone has to agree to be on both tickets? Nothing stops a person from putting them on a slate as far as I know. Most people takes someone else's word on who they should vote for. I for one will make sure people know when people are running just for a position or when they are running for the members. To tell someone you want them to vote for a person for AGC that hasn't even done a step 2 hearing before. Come on. Get real. That's not for the membership I think you would have to agree?

The bylaws force alot of things that i dont agree with. Things would be better if usairways voted for usairways candidates, and united for united. But our membership is forced to vote for agcs that will never represent them. Thats an inherent problem, imo, created by the bylaws.

At any rate, a step 2 grievance is a fzirly elementary thing to do. In a perfect world, id like to see more members with at least 4 year degrees step up and get involved since a 4 year college degree usually means the person has some functional research skills and can have better potential at understanding academic things. Such people can also be trained quicker. Winning grievances including arbitrations requires an academic skillset. Not saying a college degree is required.

 

[robbedagain]

Orgzc frank had the mediation last april in phx last I heard an arb hearing they were or are trying jan 24 but have not heard despite repeated texts

 

[charlie Brown]

The bylaws force alot of things that i dont agree with. Things would be better if usairways voted for usairways candidates, and united for united. But our membership is forced to vote for agcs that will never represent them. Thats an inherent problem, imo, created by the bylaws.
At any rate, a step 2 grievance is a fzirly elementary thing to do. In a perfect world, id like to see more members with at least 4 year degrees step up and get involved since a 4 year college degree usually means the person has some functional research skills and can have better potential at understanding academic things. Such people can also be trained quicker. Winning grievances including arbitrations requires an academic skillset. Not saying a college degree is required.

Well you for sure would know more than I do as far as the election process. I've talked about this with Ograc before. I just don't get why we have this mentality that we have to clean house every time. We end up spending two years going nowhere because we are trying to do something about the POS that should have never ran. I say figure out the guys that are doing their jobs and keep them. IMO the President no matter what is always going to put UA first because they will most likely be from there, so it's very important the next level down which is AGC,s are making sure the job is getting done for the US people. These are the most important positions as far as US goes. IMO. I don't think the by- laws keeps a person from being double slated.

 

[P. REZ]

The bylaws force alot of things that i dont agree with. Things would be better if usairways voted for usairways candidates, and united for united. But our membership is forced to vote for agcs that will never represent them. Thats an inherent problem, imo, created by the bylaws.

At any rate, a step 2 grievance is a fzirly elementary thing to do. In a perfect world, id like to see more members with at least 4 year degrees step up and get involved since a 4 year college degree usually means the person has some functional research skills and can have better potential at understanding academic things. Such people can also be trained quicker. Winning grievances including arbitrations requires an academic skillset. Not saying a college degree is required.

Tim,
 
I would agree that arguing a case at step 2 is fairly elementary except for one thing. What in the hell would their argument be if they haven't been involved or understand the CBA? I think that a person has to be involved for years and has to be well versed in all aspects of the CBA. People who want to be leaders should already be leaders. People need to get involved for the membership when the pay is zero.
 
P. Rez

 

[Tim Nelson]

Well you for sure would know more than I do as far as the election process. I've talked about this with Ograc before. I just don't get why we have this mentality that we have to clean house every time. We end up spending two years going nowhere because we are trying to do something about the POS that should have never ran. I say figure out the guys that are doing their jobs and keep them. IMO the President no matter what is always going to put UA first because they will most likely be from there, so it's very important the next level down which is AGC,s are making sure the job is getting done for the US people. These are the most important positions as far as US goes. IMO. I don't think the by- laws keeps a person from being double slated.

Truth is that the membership has rarely cleaned house. It cleaned one regime out in 50 years (and deservedly so imo) If it decides to clean another regime out then it will most likely be because of the incompetence of the united contract debacle.
Regarding usairways, i wouldnt think the negotiations committee whould change at all since it is all appointed by delaney and i wouldnt imagine delaney changing his guys out.

 

[cltrat]

I will happily vote a split ticket if need be, i am not voting for con men like Klemm and Bartz no matter what.Nor will I vote for anyone associated with that whole UA fiasco.
How this transition agreement goes will determine the rest.

throw in anyone who gives people like Lehive jobs and the choices are pretty slim.
I can easily see leaving something blank rather than choose the lesser of two evils.

 

[robbedagain]

Prez or cb how does the new alliance xhange things when it comes to elections now that we are the new aa? Also will ua still dominate the iam as it is now?

 

[charlie Brown]

Truth is that the membership has rarely cleaned house. It cleaned one regime out in 50 years (and deservedly so imo) If it decides to clean another regime out then it will most likely be because of the incompetence of the united contract debacle.
Regarding usairways, i wouldnt think the negotiations committee whould change at all since it is all appointed by delaney and i wouldnt imagine delaney changing his guys out.

My point was that I think someone would get much more respect by double slating some people, than to put people on a ticket for such an important position as a AGC that doesn't even know how to do a step 2 grievance. As elementary as you say they are, I know that was the situation on the last election. Not worried about the NC. If a different ticket wins and it changes, then that's for them to decide. I don't sweat things like that. My concern is some of the people that are chose do such an important position as AGC

 

[charlie Brown]

Prez or cb how does the new alliance xhange things when it comes to elections now that we are the new aa? Also will ua still dominate the iam as it is now?

As far as I know, the alliance won't effect the IAM elections at all, and yes I do believe that UA will still dominate our district. That's why it's important to me that we have guys in there that know what they're doing. The alliance pretty much keeps IAM intact and the TWU intact as far as their elections go.

 

[robbedagain]

Thanks cb I agree got to have peoplewho know what they're doing in there

 

[Solidarity]

The bylaws force alot of things that i dont agree with. Things would be better if usairways voted for usairways candidates, and united for united. But our membership is forced to vote for agcs that will never represent them. Thats an inherent problem, imo, created by the bylaws.

At any rate, a step 2 grievance is a fzirly elementary thing to do. In a perfect world, id like to see more members with at least 4 year degrees step up and get involved since a 4 year college degree usually means the person has some functional research skills and can have better potential at understanding academic things. Such people can also be trained quicker. Winning grievances including arbitrations requires an academic skillset. Not saying a college degree is required.

Tim, I believe that some of AGCs do have four-year college degrees. Has anyone ever flat-out asked. The thing P.Rez is referring to is that you need to start at the shallow end and gradually work your way up to the deep end of the pool. Granted a few people would be able to jump right in, but in the long run it is about knowing the CBA and being able to de-construct management's way of trying to abuse the contract. At USAirways their management style for the last 6 years was the way that AWA did things and showed ZERO respect to its employees. I think that our grievance chairmen and AGCS have made a lot of headway since the Canale regime was defeated (thanks).

 

[Tim Nelson]

http://www.king5.com/news/aerospace/Candidate-for-International-Machinists-Union-president-lands-in-NW-237689461.html

 

[Tim Nelson]

My point was that I think someone would get much more respect by double slating some people, than to put people on a ticket for such an important position as a AGC that doesn't even know how to do a step 2 grievance. As elementary as you say they are, I know that was the situation on the last election. Not worried about the NC. If a different ticket wins and it changes, then that's for them to decide. I don't sweat things like that. My concern is some of the people that are chose do such an important position as AGC

Hopefully, our membership will have some decent choices this time around.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim, I believe that some of AGCs do have four-year college degrees. Has anyone ever flat-out asked. The thing P.Rez is referring to is that you need to start at the shallow end and gradually work your way up to the deep end of the pool. Granted a few people would be able to jump right in, but in the long run it is about knowing the CBA and being able to de-construct management's way of trying to abuse the contract. At USAirways their management style for the last 6 years was the way that AWA did things and showed ZERO respect to its employees. I think that our grievance chairmen and AGCS have made a lot of headway since the Canale regime was defeated (thanks).

Yes, some do have degrees, I just think with all the education on the ramp [plenty of us that have degrees on the ramp] I'd like to see more get involved in union matters.  During the United TA fiasco, many UA AGC"s really had no clue about some very important matters and were academically compromised unless they were just being intellectually dishonest.  So, while starting at the shallow end is ideal, sometimes current gaps forces other folks to stand in them.  Remember, the pool of candidates is always small as well.  Few people want to do a union job. Most of those who have stayed in the shallows and can also swim in the deep, choose to stay where they are because of family situations or personal situations which would limit their commitment to travel and the true 24/7 nature of being in a full time union position.  Others realize there are current deficiencies but don't want to lose their comfort for change. It's difficult, especially with politics at play always.

 

[cltrat]

I think being intellectually dishonest is about as kind a way as can be put on what I witnessed on various forums about the UA ta.
On the other hand I know a shop steward here in CLT that would make a better agc than anyone I know that is doing it.
He won't do it though, two reasons the time commitment and he'd never be a yes man for whoever was at the top of the ticket.