Nov/Dec 2013 Fleet Service Discussion

[700UW]

The cost for M&R per hour is under $2 per member

 

[737823]

The cost for M&R per hour is under $2 per member

it's at least that. But again the company considers the total cost your CBA imposes and without the pension hanging over their head that could be reallocated to another area like scope or healthcare.

Josh

 

[700UW]

No its not at least that, a $2 an hour multiplier would pay $104,right now it pays $86 so it is less than $2 an hour.

 

[737823]

Let's see what Tim has to say, that's what I will go with.

Josh

 

[700UW]

Tim is not a pension expert, nor has he ever been in negotiations nor on a committee.
 
I am telling you the facts and figures that have been provided.

 

[necigrad]

Using the document at http://mypension.iamnpf.org/media/13829/IAM_SPD_11.pdf I see that $2.00/hr gives you $85.46/mth (using the scale that I believe goes into effect in January).  I don't know what their contract says gets paid, but that's from the plan documents.  The old scale (the one expiring) pays $142.43 according to the same document for $2.00/hr

 

[JFK Fleet Service]

I talked to a PHL Agent yesterday, he said, AA has about 100 ramp guy's on layoff. He said, The company wants to bring them back and let them work our jets instead of hiring US employees off the street. I say thats bullshit. How does AGC O'Donnell feel about this? Phl is his station, right. Let's get some feedback from the district on this.

Hiring US employees off the street? What does that mean exactly? Do you mean recall furloughed employees?

 

[Tim Nelson]

Let's see what Tim has to say, that's what I will go with.
Josh

Im not sure what 700 is referring to about folks needing to be on some committee to know objective things, which the iampf is.
Josh, we already have the iampc so i dont think it is a good idea to suspend it. Yes, the company provides the same contribution but the union pension trustees cut the future benefits in half. That was wrong.
Yes, companies are deeply concerned with staying in defined benefits like at boeing. The iampf is a ponzie scheme like social security so its vital to the plan to increase participation or suffer.
More importantly is the fact that defined benefit plans are under attack politically as corporate america wants the ability to even slash current benefits for retirees, so who can be secure when one has absolutely no control on decisions with their money?
Defined benefits have also taken on friendly fire as most unions have pushed to slash current benefits to get at themoney. To the iam credit due to politics or a conscience, they were in the minority fighting on behalf of retirees.

These things are dinosaurs but for me and us, we have to support it.

The companys want out of these sorta plans so in theory, a union may give up more leverage to keep the funds going.
In current negotiations, i think getting the company to commit to a match to have a 3 prong is the way to go.

 

[blue collar]

Tim is not a pension expert, nor has he ever been in negotiations nor on a committee.
 
I am telling you the facts and figures that have been provided.

No, you're wrong. Completely wrong. US pays $2/hr into a mechanics IAMNPF since 2011.

 

[P. REZ]

I'm acutely aware of the three leg stool approach and what it means. Again with an $84 month multiplier and you consider that the employees here haven't even been in the plan for more than eight years (fleet) or five years (M&R) max, that's hardly something to be proud of. And how much can employees at US afford to save in 401ks and other investments based on your current pay rates? Unless upon employee already has substantial savings, earnings from other sources, spouse, etc I imagine there isn't much to tap into. Perhaps the membership would be better served with you securing generous 401k contribution and/or match. There is no telling that the IAMNPF will be around at retirement. It may be well soundly funded today but in a few years who knows especially if other participating employees begin dropping off. With a DC plan the money is yours, the company or plan administrator can't touch it.

My point is, as others have said on here being in the IAMNPF does cost the company money and this cost is included in their analysis and negotiations of other items in the comprehensive contract. Although employees themselves do not see the money being deduced from their payroll of "putting the money in the envelope" it is and will be considered when determining your new base rates, health care contribution, work rules, scope, and other benefits. There is no such thing as a free lunch other posters-Kev coming to mind-have remarked to this effect on multiple occasions in the past. If you truly are on the US negotiating committee it baffles me that you don't see how IAMNPF and the associated burden on the company of participating is precluding you from maintaining (and hopefully advancing) other elements of the CBA, particularly scope which the membership has identified as one of the most, if not the most important items for the contract.

I do agree with Tim that the IAMs interests in getting TWU employees in IAMNPF may prevail here but I don't know. Again you can insist all you want that what happened at UAL has zero implications for your group but you are only fooling yourself if that's the case. The UA agreement is now 'industry standard' that the IAM UA NC willingly agreed to, it's not as if it was court imposed or needed to be concessionary, fact is the IAM wanted the dues from sCO unorganized agents and was prepared to put aside the interest of the membership to do so. Again UA wanted to integrate the two sides-and they couldn't do so until a JCBA was ratified. Why the NC was so quick to settle for this BS? I dunno but I imagine the NC members were more concerned advancing their union careers with the district and international so they were quick to endorse this nonsense. And now people are seeing why that agreement is a joke but it's too late now.

Josh

Josh,
 
The money put into the pension is factored by the Company into the negotiation process. It is not a free lunch. However, if not a pension we would have a 401k match which would cost the Company the same. This is not a Company run pension which they are liable for a certain benefit which would hurt our negotiation process. If the pension was run by the Company and they negotiated a defined benefit in our contract then that would cause potential problems at the negotiating table because factors out of the control of the Company could add liabilities to the Company to keep promises made in the CBA. However, the pension burden is on the IAM and it is not promised that you will always get a certain amount forever. You are only guaranteed a certain amount after you accrue but future amounts can be changed. That is why the IAM cut the Benefit starting in 2014. Because the pension is not a Company pension where a said amount will always be paid, the liability to the Company to keep up is non-existent and does not add any stress to the negotiating process. It is always a set and known cost.   
 
P. Rez  

 

[737823]

Josh,
 
The money put into the pension is factored by the Company into the negotiation process. It is not a free lunch. However, if not a pension we would have a 401k match which would cost the Company the same. This is not a Company run pension which they are liable for a certain benefit which would hurt our negotiation process. If the pension was run by the Company and they negotiated a defined benefit in our contract then that would cause potential problems at the negotiating table because factors out of the control of the Company could add liabilities to the Company to keep promises made in the CBA. However, the pension burden is on the IAM and it is not promised that you will always get a certain amount forever. You are only guaranteed a certain amount after you accrue but future amounts can be changed. That is why the IAM cut the Benefit starting in 2014. Because the pension is not a Company pension where a said amount will always be paid, the liability to the Company to keep up is non-existent and does not add any stress to the negotiating process. It is always a set and known cost.   
 
P. Rez

Thanks for the reply, glad we agree this is a relevant cost that the co considers in negotiations. If the plan is so great and soundly managed why is the company/plan administrator cutting the few shekels your members receive as is? Again do you think the labor leaders who championed DB plans that provided workers a full retirement and solid middle class lifestyle would be proud of this nonsense? I get that your US plan was unfortunately terminated and is under the PBGC but to me this small sum the IAMNPF provides is hardly anything to go around boasting about.

Josh

 

[P. REZ]

Thanks for the reply, glad we agree this is a relevant cost that the co considers in negotiations. If the plan is so great and soundly managed why is the company/plan administrator cutting the few shekels your members receive as is? Again do you think the labor leaders who championed DB plans that provided workers a full retirement and solid middle class lifestyle would be proud of this nonsense? I get that your US plan was unfortunately terminated and is under the PBGC but to me this small sum the IAMNPF provides is hardly anything to go around boasting about.

Josh

Josh,
 
I do believe the pension is still a very good thing for employees despite the 40% cut starting in 14. I have said before and will state again that I do like 401k's too and combined with the pension, S.S. and other forms of savings by individuals gives an employee the chance to retire by 60 with a comfortable lifestyle. 
 
P. Rez

 

[Jester]

If I recall correctly, a few years ago PHX was using Express runners plane side to download connect bags going to Express flights.  I guess they did such a lousy job that Management decided to use mainline runners instead, so I am not sure there is much which violated the CBA, as it was once common practice in PHX.
 
Someone who was once in LAS told me that he would run the United interline bags which were part of the STAR alliance.  UA ramp agents would leave them on the side near the belt loader, he would pick them up.

 

[cltrat]

Time for someone to file a grievance.

allow me to offer a little prediction on how that would go with our wonderful contract featuring enough gray for an aircraft carrier.

Company has exhausted ot list and doesnt get relief though volunteer status
(almost certainly the case)
they will pull out some irregular ops crap and roll right on.
End of story

 

[ChockJockey]

If I recall correctly, a few years ago PHX was using Express runners plane side to download connect bags going to Express flights.  I guess they did such a lousy job that Management decided to use mainline runners instead, so I am not sure there is much which violated the CBA, as it was once common practice in PHX.

 
This is true, except at the same time mainline runners were used to download the mainline conx off Express flights, so when they changed it to what it is now the work was simply swapped.