nonunion and management about to get hosed
- Thread starter dfw gen
- Start date
See How Pay Stacks Up Between American Airlines and US Airwayseolesen said:
http://american-agents.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/27/2014/02/WagesComparison.pdf
See How Benefits Stack Up Between American Airlines and US Airways
http://american-agents.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/27/2014/02/BenefitsComparison.pdf
See How Health Care Stacks Up Between American Airlines and US Airways
http://american-agents.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/27/2014/02/HealthCareComparison.pdf
blue collar
Veteran
- Mar 17, 2008
- 1,241
- 901
Which CBA is that?700UW said:
blue collar
Veteran
- Mar 17, 2008
- 1,241
- 901
Fwiw- at WN, they are starting in July that management (and I think all non union) positions will only accrue 40 hrs sick time/year. I don't remember if was earn and burn within the same year or not- but they're also offering the disability with it. I think this is something that all carriers are going to push for- it's just up to us to not let it happen.
eolesen
Veteran
- Jul 23, 2003
- 15,959
- 9,374
If this is indeed where AA or WN are moving, it may be a move towards implementing a PTO policy, which typically combines your sick, VC, and holidays.
If you currently earn 10 days VC and 8 days SK, plus 10 paid holidays, moving to a PTO bank would allow the company to position it as 28 days off per year. Sounds a lot more appealing than just 2 weeks vacation. Not all companies like the idea of closing down for a four day weekend when Christmas or the 4th of July falls on a weekend.
The downside... all those days will be used, or get paid out under most PTO plans.
The upside... most of those days will wind up being pre-planned for use, as opposed to the guy who calls in sick to go golfing, and if subject to bidding, they'll wind up being more spread out across the year.
Personally, I don't mind this approach. I've got 5 weeks off including holidays but not including sick days. This could increase it to 6 or 7...
If you currently earn 10 days VC and 8 days SK, plus 10 paid holidays, moving to a PTO bank would allow the company to position it as 28 days off per year. Sounds a lot more appealing than just 2 weeks vacation. Not all companies like the idea of closing down for a four day weekend when Christmas or the 4th of July falls on a weekend.
The downside... all those days will be used, or get paid out under most PTO plans.
The upside... most of those days will wind up being pre-planned for use, as opposed to the guy who calls in sick to go golfing, and if subject to bidding, they'll wind up being more spread out across the year.
Personally, I don't mind this approach. I've got 5 weeks off including holidays but not including sick days. This could increase it to 6 or 7...
MetalMover
Veteran
- Sep 16, 2013
- 3,543
- 2,410
You may not mind this approach, but the problem I see is if an employee uses those 8 days sick, will he/she still be subject to time and attendance interrogation upon return to work.eolesen said:
eolesen
Veteran
- Jul 23, 2003
- 15,959
- 9,374
If anything, there may wind up being less pressure to question the absence, since it was time the company was going to pay out one way or another.
What may get the employee subject to an interrogation is the lack of notice.
Companies who've gone this way have seen abuse goes down to almost zero.
Think about it. The only consequences of calling in sick today is an uncomfortable conversation with an attendance clerk or a supervisor.
With PTO, there's potential consequences... If you know that calling in sick means you're either going to have to cancel a few days off later in the year, or take them as unpaid time off, are you going to be a little more selective about when you call in sick? Maybe only calling in sick when you are actually sick?...
Personally, I'd be more than OK holding a few days back for sick calls, knowing I'd be getting paid for the time later if they were unused. All it's doing is making official what some employees are doing now. By giving the company advance notice on what shifts have to be covered, it may even work out to be a wash once you consider the reduced overtime and maybe the need for fewer attendance counselors...
What may get the employee subject to an interrogation is the lack of notice.
Companies who've gone this way have seen abuse goes down to almost zero.
Think about it. The only consequences of calling in sick today is an uncomfortable conversation with an attendance clerk or a supervisor.
With PTO, there's potential consequences... If you know that calling in sick means you're either going to have to cancel a few days off later in the year, or take them as unpaid time off, are you going to be a little more selective about when you call in sick? Maybe only calling in sick when you are actually sick?...
Personally, I'd be more than OK holding a few days back for sick calls, knowing I'd be getting paid for the time later if they were unused. All it's doing is making official what some employees are doing now. By giving the company advance notice on what shifts have to be covered, it may even work out to be a wash once you consider the reduced overtime and maybe the need for fewer attendance counselors...
WeAAsles
Veteran
- Oct 20, 2007
- 23,539
- 5,263
I wonder if you would be able to purchase additional insurance that would cover the lost 33%? I think only 8 days would be a little too skimpy for me but I might have an interest in the future if it were at least 12?Overspeed said:
Of course if it were set up like our PV days you would have to seek approval for some of that time as PTO weeks in advance by seniority.
La Li Lu Le Lo
Veteran
- May 29, 2010
- 7,414
- 2,649
[SIZE=10.5pt]If I was in that position I would call in sick every damn day till I exhausted my sick time then quit. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt]Let's run some numbers shall we.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt]This is for a fictional 15 dollar an hour employee[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt]15 X 8 X 150 (for a maxed out bank) = 18000.00[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt]and the company wants to pay them = 1297.50[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt]For a total screwing of 16702.50[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt]There is NO WAY IN HELL I would let ANY company screw me out of almost 17k (on 15 dollars an hour mind you) of benefits (actual realized CASH) in ONE YEAR!!!![/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt]If a company is going to screw you out of 1200 hours (30 weeks) of pay in a 2080 hour work year, or put another way 58 percent of a yearly income..... do you really give a damn if you get fired?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt]People will make the mistake of comparing this to a pay cut or loss of sick days (granted per year not banked), maybe even loss of vacation but, it is actually very different. The before mentioned benefits are future events, the sick bank is a past event and has already been accrued. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt]People will make an argument that sick time that is not cashed in is not a realized benefit (as in it has no defined worth), this too is flawed. The company defined its worth when they stated that it was worth 8 hours of standard pay.[/SIZE]
It amazes me how American Airlines came up with a way to alienate their most loyal workers (people that actually have shown up enough to bank significant hours). This is a new level of stupid even for American Airlines.
I sincerity hope American Airlines get's a very, very, VERY public class action lawsuit filed against them. I really do.
[SIZE=10.5pt] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt]Let's run some numbers shall we.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt]This is for a fictional 15 dollar an hour employee[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt]15 X 8 X 150 (for a maxed out bank) = 18000.00[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt]and the company wants to pay them = 1297.50[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt]For a total screwing of 16702.50[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt]There is NO WAY IN HELL I would let ANY company screw me out of almost 17k (on 15 dollars an hour mind you) of benefits (actual realized CASH) in ONE YEAR!!!![/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt]If a company is going to screw you out of 1200 hours (30 weeks) of pay in a 2080 hour work year, or put another way 58 percent of a yearly income..... do you really give a damn if you get fired?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt]People will make the mistake of comparing this to a pay cut or loss of sick days (granted per year not banked), maybe even loss of vacation but, it is actually very different. The before mentioned benefits are future events, the sick bank is a past event and has already been accrued. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt]People will make an argument that sick time that is not cashed in is not a realized benefit (as in it has no defined worth), this too is flawed. The company defined its worth when they stated that it was worth 8 hours of standard pay.[/SIZE]
It amazes me how American Airlines came up with a way to alienate their most loyal workers (people that actually have shown up enough to bank significant hours). This is a new level of stupid even for American Airlines.
I sincerity hope American Airlines get's a very, very, VERY public class action lawsuit filed against them. I really do.
blue, from what I have been told the NON-union and NON-contract employees are forced to make decisions. They will be reduced to accumulating only a total of 80 hrs (2 weeks) of sick time. Co paid short term disability, and then long term to kick in after that, which is a cost to the employees and depends on which catagory they choose depends how much they would take home after taxes.blue collar said:
Here's a question, what if someone is sick and uses their 2 weeks up and later in the year they get sick again, what happens for the first 2 weeks that they already burned for the first event? Nothing I tell you absolutely nothing, your on your own. And your right, it is 100% up to us, the mechanic group, that if we vote this in we have nobody to blame but ourselves, point blank and period!!! As far as I am concerned, the co can take this new sick policy and shove it where the sun doesn't shine. Plus, if we are not able to earn or accrue sick time to apply to early retirement what is the point voting for it. get loss SWA, we won't have it...
