NMB

[Harvey]

Why aren't all the unions getting together to sue the NMB their in bed with American and Obama

 

[Frank Szabo]

Why aren't all the unions getting together to sue the NMB their in bed with American and Obama

Gee - another one that thinks unions are working for their memberships' benefit instead of their own survival.

Question: Why do you think the procedings in the "bargaining sessions" are so secret?

Answer: One would see in rather short order who is really working for the memberships' benefit - NOBODY!

 

[Observer]

Why aren't all the unions getting together to sue the NMB their in bed with American and Obama

what suit would you propose? The NMB is a quasi-government department that is for mediation purposes to PREVENT strikes basically, to find common ground in the bargainning process. There has to be reasonable bargainning from both sides. The NMB does not care what happened in the past, they are more concerned in the here and now, "real time". All the positioning taken with all the posts here serves no one, except to inflame more rhetoric. Neither Owens or the Company can deliver the bacon so to speak, without both sides moving to a position more favorable to an agreement. The NMB will let the parties twist in the wind until forever if need be.

 

[jimntx]

The NMB will let the parties twist in the wind until forever if need be.

This is not totally accurate. Yes, they can let the parties twist in the wind. However, they can also release the parties from mediation into a 30-day cooling off period. This is what they should have done a long time ago. Their own mediators walked out of "bargaining sessions" with the pilots and the company last week.

Now, regardless of who is dragging their feet in the sessions (most likely the company), a 30-day cooling off period tends to focus the mind. If no agreement is reached by the end of the 30 days, then both sides are released into self-help. The union can strike. The company can lock out the union members.

The NMB is refusing to release the unions into a 30-day cooling off period for reasons that should have no bearing on NMB decisions--namely, the financial condition of the company. They specifically used that as one of their reason the last time they refused the APFA's request to be released.

The NMB's charter is to provide neutral mediation services for unions under the RLA. This is necessary because of the way the RLA is written. Ostensibly, it is for the unions' benefit because the law says that the current contract remains in force until a new contract is ratified. Without mediation, there is no motivation for the company to EVER negotiate a new contract. New contracts usually mean higher wages, or better benefits, or improved working conditions for the union members. All of these tend to cost the company money.

 

[Observer]

This is not totally accurate. Yes, they can let the parties twist in the wind. However, they can also release the parties from mediation into a 30-day cooling off period. This is what they should have done a long time ago. Their own mediators walked out of "bargaining sessions" with the pilots and the company last week.

Now, regardless of who is dragging their feet in the sessions (most likely the company), a 30-day cooling off period tends to focus the mind. If no agreement is reached by the end of the 30 days, then both sides are released into self-help. The union can strike. The company can lock out the union members.

The NMB is refusing to release the unions into a 30-day cooling off period for reasons that should have no bearing on NMB decisions--namely, the financial condition of the company. They specifically used that as one of their reason the last time they refused the APFA's request to be released.

The NMB's charter is to provide neutral mediation services for unions under the RLA. This is necessary because of the way the RLA is written. Ostensibly, it is for the unions' benefit because the law says that the current contract remains in force until a new contract is ratified. Without mediation, there is no motivation for the company to EVER negotiate a new contract. New contracts usually mean higher wages, or better benefits, or improved working conditions for the union members. All of these tend to cost the company money.

all you state is accurate. But if the NMB in their view of the process feel either side is not being real in their specific proposals, or are not within the realm of reasonableness, they won't release anyone. They won't allow either party to drive the bus over the cliff unless BOTH sides have exhausted all "good will". If the mediator has said to either party you aren't being real in your demand, then That party is put on notice to look at the proposal and make a change. As long as the NMB makes the decision to keep the parties going because there is optimism a bargain can be reached, then the NMB will not alter the process. Another point is also the environment the bargainning is being done in, high unemployment, poor economic climate and etc. Those facts unfortunately affect the process.

The pilots in their wisdom have kept things extremely quiet, something that we have failed to do. What is written here over the years, I am sure, is viewed by the NMB.

 

[strikeforce]

all you state is accurate. But if the NMB in their view of the process feel either side is not being real in their specific proposals, or are not within the realm of reasonableness, they won't release anyone. They won't allow either party to drive the bus over the cliff unless BOTH sides have exhausted all "good will". If the mediator has said to either party you aren't being real in your demand, then That party is put on notice to look at the proposal and make a change. As long as the NMB makes the decision to keep the parties going because there is optimism a bargain can be reached, then the NMB will not alter the process. Another point is also the environment the bargainning is being done in, high unemployment, poor economic climate and etc. Those facts unfortunately affect the process.

The pilots in their wisdom have kept things extremely quiet, something that we have failed to do. What is written here over the years, I am sure, is viewed by the NMB.

It's not the NMB's job to pick and choose driving factors that benefit one party or the other....primarily the state of the economy, unemployment, or the financial condition of the company. They are supposed to be a NEUTRAL party. Why didn't the NMB entertain the fact that we've endured 8 years of concessions, and ask that AA move towards the union's demands???? The reasons are simple, the NMB, and specifically the RLA, stack the deck against labor, and corporations like AA benefit tremendously when they're not pressed to bargain in good faith, enjoy more concessions by doing nothing and can manipulate the process by showing the NMB that there may be some optimism by making small changes to their proposals that are not even close to other parties demands in the hope of prolonging the process. That's where we stand today, right? And, the NMB bought it hook, line and sinker, and just walked away. And, the union just walked away too. What a joke!!

The NMB didn't finish the job they were asked to do, and when they felt no further optimism they should have released BOTH parties. They failed to do their job as mediators.

The pilots have always been smarter than the TWU. Please do not compare a professional union with a union led by clowns!!!

 

[Observer]

It's not the NMB's job to pick and choose driving factors that benefit one party or the other....primarily the state of the economy, unemployment, or the financial condition of the company. They are supposed to be a NEUTRAL party. Why didn't the NMB entertain the fact that we've endured 8 years of concessions, and ask that AA move towards the union's demands???? The reasons are simple, the NMB, and specifically the RLA, stack the deck against labor, and corporations like AA benefit tremendously when they're not pressed to bargain in good faith, enjoy more concessions by doing nothing and can manipulate the process by showing the NMB that there may be some optimism by making small changes to their proposals that are not even close to other parties demands in the hope of prolonging the process. That's where we stand today, right? And, the NMB bought it hook, line and sinker, and just walked away. And, the union just walked away too. What a joke!!

The NMB didn't finish the job they were asked to do, and when they felt no further optimism they should have released BOTH parties. They failed to do their job as mediators.

The pilots have always been smarter than the TWU. Please do not compare a professional union with a union led by clowns!!!

The NMB doesn't pick and choose anything. The NMB ensures neutrality by not taking a side. The NMB is aware that we took concessions, but that fact does not mean it is part of mediation. Your compalint that the deck is stacked against us is a personal perception, and repeated by many on this site and years ago on another site. Manipulating the process when you have no horse in the race is pure foolishness. You and others that do not like the process, which has served the airline industry for many years.

 

[strikeforce]

The NMB doesn't pick and choose anything. The NMB ensures neutrality by not taking a side. The NMB is aware that we took concessions, but that fact does not mean it is part of mediation. Your compalint that the deck is stacked against us is a personal perception, and repeated by many on this site and years ago on another site. Manipulating the process when you have no horse in the race is pure foolishness. You and others that do not like the process, which has served the airline industry for many years.

Really, they didn't take sides.....they took management's side this time around by not releasing us, or is the TWU giving us half-truths again, and maybe it was the TWU that asked the NMB to take a hike without releasing us so they can have secret informal meetings with management?....I don't know what to believe anymore. How many people on this site know that the TWU presidents voted 4 times on whether to ask the NMB for release.....and 4 times it got voted down?? Why didn't the TWU mention that in the monthly negotiation news release??? Why not???? I believe the membership is entitled to know that information, right??? I'm ready for release, been ready since 2008! And, I voted NO for the T/A, and the TWU inserted a scare letter that basically said "vote No and you authorize the TWU to negotiate up to and including release and strike". Well, I did my part by voting NO, and now I'm waiting for the TWU leadership to follow thru with that scare letter! Do your job TWU, that's what WE pay YOU to do!!!

 

[Flying low]

Can someone explain why the NMB would release us. After all, wasn't it just last month or so the TWU and company settled with two more groups. Maybe in the eyes of the NMB, it shows progress being made.

 

[Observer]

Really, they didn't take sides.....they took management's side this time around by not releasing us, or is the TWU giving us half-truths again, and maybe it was the TWU that asked the NMB to take a hike without releasing us so they can have secret informal meetings with management?....I don't know what to believe anymore. How many people on this site know that the TWU presidents voted 4 times on whether to ask the NMB for release.....and 4 times it got voted down?? Why didn't the TWU mention that in the monthly negotiation news release??? Why not???? I believe the membership is entitled to know that information, right??? I'm ready for release, been ready since 2008! And, I voted NO for the T/A, and the TWU inserted a scare letter that basically said "vote No and you authorize the TWU to negotiate up to and including release and strike". Well, I did my part by voting NO, and now I'm waiting for the TWU leadership to follow thru with that scare letter! Do your job TWU, that's what WE pay YOU to do!!!

by not being released is taking management's side.................preposterous. The letter inserted in the mail out is nothing new, they've been included in packages before. One reason is to make sure those that are voting no the consequences of how they vote. Too many times in the past individuals come forward and say I wasn't aware if I voted no, we would strike. prior to the 1969 strike, voting was done at the local, by the members in attendance. It has been a mail ballot ever since. Information was always included with the ballot. Your perceptions are questionable at best. So the next step in the process will be prior to release, an offer of binding arbitration. Quit the harping on the NMB, the process, it is what it is and nothing can change it, unless there is considerable movement on both sides.

 

[FWAAA]

Dunno about the APA or the APFA, but if I were a member of the TWU, I'd be enraged if the incompetent worthless union secured a release from mediated negotiations and attempted to "lead" me and my coworkers in any sort of self-help. Decades of demonstrated failure already - who in their right mind would trust those idiots to call a strike?

Cart before the horse. Replace the TWU with another union and THEN seek a release.

 

[strikeforce]

by not being released is taking management's side.................preposterous. The letter inserted in the mail out is nothing new, they've been included in packages before. One reason is to make sure those that are voting no the consequences of how they vote. Too many times in the past individuals come forward and say I wasn't aware if I voted no, we would strike. prior to the 1969 strike, voting was done at the local, by the members in attendance. It has been a mail ballot ever since. Information was always included with the ballot. Your perceptions are questionable at best. So the next step in the process will be prior to release, an offer of binding arbitration. Quit the harping on the NMB, the process, it is what it is and nothing can change it, unless there is considerable movement on both sides.

We've made considerable sacrifices over 8 years....it's time for the company to pony up and move towards the union demands. We will not accept voluntary concessions through negotiations.....I believe the membership has made that perfectly clear. I also believe the TWU INTL leadership is well aware of the possibility of decertification, and it would be foolish on their part to shove something down our throats or weasel US into some backdoor deal with management during these secret negotiations. We're on to your non-sense, TWU!!!!

 

[Birdman]

Dunno about the APA or the APFA, but if I were a member of the TWU, I'd be enraged if the incompetent worthless union secured a release from mediated negotiations and attempted to "lead" me and my coworkers in any sort of self-help. Decades of demonstrated failure already - who in their right mind would trust those idiots to call a strike?

Cart before the horse. Replace the TWU with another union and THEN seek a release.

It's funny how none of the TWU faithful ever give you any flack over your comments. HSS, Overspeed, Jim Little's secretary, not even a :angry: ?

 

[strikeforce]

Dunno about the APA or the APFA, but if I were a member of the TWU, I'd be enraged if the incompetent worthless union secured a release from mediated negotiations and attempted to "lead" me and my coworkers in any sort of self-help. Decades of demonstrated failure already - who in their right mind would trust those idiots to call a strike?

Cart before the horse. Replace the TWU with another union and THEN seek a release.

Never said that I trust those idiots, but I'm not gonna sit around forever while the worthless union collects my dues, either!

We would replace that worthless union, but my union brothers in TUL must love getting played like fiddle by the TWU, because to any rational thinking member....it's a no brainer!!!! SIGN THE CARD ALREADY!!!!!!

 

[jimntx]

The NMB doesn't pick and choose anything. The NMB ensures neutrality by not taking a side. The NMB is aware that we took concessions, but that fact does not mean it is part of mediation. Your compalint that the deck is stacked against us is a personal perception, and repeated by many on this site and years ago on another site. Manipulating the process when you have no horse in the race is pure foolishness. You and others that do not like the process, which has served the airline industry for many years.

Oh? When the company came back to a "bargaining session" after refusing to even show up for months, all they did was present the exact same, word for word, totally inadequate offer that they had made before. The APFA requested release from mediation (for the 3rd or 4th time in the past year or so) because the company was not bargaining in good faith, and the NMB refused their request while admitting that the company was not bargaining in good faith stated that the company's financial condition was too perilous (the company has over $4 BILLION in cash right now) for the union to be released. And, you think that is being neutral and not favoring the company to the detriment of the union? How so?