Next Drive!

[Strake]

Punks, Drunks, Cowards, Functional Illiterates, and Felons. The twu's finest.

Being considered to be ANY of the above is far better than being considered an amfa supporter. You amfa pukes are just plain STUPID. :blink: Yes, you are! You guys are STUPID! :blink: Not ignorant but STUPID! :blink: How STUPID :blink: can you guys be? Are you guys gonna do another card drive??? Are you really that STUPID? :blink: Hey, tell us how many card drives has the amfa lost here at AA over the years ms. packman? :blink:

 

[High Speed Steel]

I have a question for you Mr. steel, if little jimmy is so obviously confidant the twu would win an election against AMFA, why did the twu work so hard to inflate the eligibility list along with the company?

Why is the twu worried about a vote, if they would win with a knockout?

You would think the twu would welcome the chance to prove a landslide win against a non afl-cio, miniscule, craft union with no money or political connections like the twu so proudly claims.

Please give us a twu professional opinion.

BTW, it still makes me shake my head when the twu (little jimmy here) calls this a "AMFA raid". He still refuses to acknowlege that AA mechanics went to AMFA, not the reverse. How twu blind can one be? I think I see I have the answer with 'ol jimmy, (not to leave the rest of the twu believers out of course).

Punks, Drunks, Cowards, Functional Illiterates, and Felons. The twu's finest.

NO VOTE? NO PEACE!!!!

With your continued rants, and accusations in reference to the eligability list consider this, Mr. Hackman!

During the voting process for the concessionary agreement we are currently under here at AA there where accusations by amfa, and its supporters, that 3000 members did not recieve pin numbers. That was an "INFLATED NUMBER", by you and your comrades...! With the reality that 467 Line C/C's where affected, but after the clerical problem was resolved 224 did get to vote. You guys raised all kinds of hell about members not getting to vote on this issue! I guess that it is O.K. for you and your amfa minions to support the inflation of numbers as long as it can be of benifit to your agenda...!

Now the NMB is reviewing all eligable to vote and you want to claim that numbers are being inflated once again....! You people are a real Hoot..... 😛

-----------------------------
amfa: The YUGO of the labor movement
Where bargaining means YOU GO....!

 

[Hackman]

Being considered to be ANY of the above is far better than being considered an amfa supporter. You amfa pukes are just plain STUPID. :blink: Yes, you are! You guys are STUPID! :blink: Not ignorant but STUPID! :blink: How STUPID :blink: can you guys be? Are you guys gonna do another card drive??? Are you really that STUPID? :blink: Hey, tell us how many card drives has the amfa lost here at AA over the years ms. packman? :blink:

Ahhhh strake, your a literary genius. Are you and butt scraper in the same 3 grade class? If all the AMFA supporters have to worry about is the playground antics of clowns the likes of you, the AA AMFA drivers got it made.

Put your twu where your mouth is. Start a card drive at any of the 8 AMFA represented carriers; Northwest, Southwest, United, ATA, Messaba, Alaska, Horizon, and ACA. Don't forget to bring your twu coffin, show us how its done.

Punks, Drunks, Cowards, Functional Illiterates, and Felons. The twu's finest.

NO VOTE? NO PEACE!!!!

 

[Strake]

Punks, Drunks, Cowards, Functional Illiterates, and Felons. The twu's finest.

The Dweeb writes the above and then comes right back with this.

"If all the amfa supporters have to worry about is the playground antics of clowns the likes of you, the AA amfa drivers got it made."

Just answer the question amfa dweeb.

How many card drives has amfa lost at AA over the years?


HOW MANY??????

 

[Hackman]

With your continued rants, and accusations in reference to the eligability list consider this, Mr. Hackman!

During the voting process for the concessionary agreement we are currently under here at AA there where accusations by amfa, and its supporters, that 3000 members did not recieve pin numbers. That was an "INFLATED NUMBER", by you and your comrades...! With the reality that 467 Line C/C's where affected, but after the clerical problem was resolved 224 did get to vote. You guys raised all kinds of hell about members not getting to vote on this issue! I guess that it is O.K. for you and your amfa minions to support the inflation of numbers as long as it can be of benifit to your agenda...!

Now the NMB is reviewing all eligable to vote and you want to claim that numbers are being inflated once again....! You people are a real Hoot..... 😛

-----------------------------
amfa: The YUGO of the labor movement
Where bargaining means YOU GO....!

Well, I was one of those that did not get a pin number. I had to call several times to get one, and the one I received did not work. I called again and requested another pin number, which was finally worked. A real pain.

Even if your numbers are correct, and they are not, 243 still did not get to vote. Now are you calling that a legit vote? Tell me how? I guess its "close enough" for your twu standards, right? I suppose you also think its just fine that the votes were allowed to be changed, and the pin numbers were sequential, so it was easily accomplished by anyone that could count. Do you also approve of the fact that the one group that "voted" (and I use the term loosely) the concessions down, was the summarily told by little jimmy that their votes didn't matter, and they were getting bent over anyway. Sounds like a dictatorship straight out of the former USSR, aye KOMRADE???

.....The Grapevine Volume 6, Issue 2
American Airlines' Voter Eligibitity List is a Departure from Reality

Terry Harvey, Assistant National Director

In all my years contesting voter eligibility lists supplied by companies, American Airlines holds the record for the most erroneous ever. The Transport Workers Union (TWU) holds second place on supplying erroneous information. American is fully aware of the National Mediation Board (NMB) process to determine voter eligibilty and has chosen to ignore the rules. Had American done a thorough investigation, we would not be going through this drawn out process. In fact, the American Ailines Mechanic and Related employees would have already received and voted in an election.

The NMB investigator agreed with the company's position, with exception of 46 stores clerks and 1 duplicate, that was found on the list. I believe that the NMB is remiss not finding approximately 1500 other individuals that should have been removed from the voter eligibility list.

We are now forced into an appeal process for which we have requested and been granted a two-week extension. The new time line is as follows: appeals must be received by 12 noon Thursday, July 15, 2004; responses to appeals must be received not later than 12 noon, Thursday, July 22, 2004. Hopefully we will get someone at the NMB to review the data that AMFA supplied and set aside the Investigator's ruling totaling 18,661.


Being liars, and cheats is nothing to be proud of twu believers. Deception never stands......sooner or later the truth will find you.

Punks, Drunks, Cowards, Functional Illiterates, and Felons. The twu's finest.

NO VOTE? NO PEACE!!!!

 

[Hackman]

The Dweeb writes the above and then comes right back with this.

"If all the amfa supporters have to worry about is the playground antics of clowns the likes of you, the AA amfa drivers got it made."

Just answer the question amfa dweeb.

How many card drives has amfa lost at AA over the years?


HOW MANY??????

Lost card drives? NONE!!!! How do you "lose" a card drive moron??

How many card drives has the twu lost??? Oh, I'm sorry, they've never HAD ONE!!!!!

WHY IS THAT???
Ok class, the twu recess is over. Time for your nap strake.

Punks, Drunks, Cowards, Functional Illiterates, and Felons. The twu's finest.

NO VOTE? NO PEACE!!!!

 

[Stop the Bus..I Want Off!!]

Oh, but Stop, you fail to mention that amfa has "accumulated" quite the track record since becoming BA at UAL and NWA. A track record that sucks I might add. NOONE is buying the amfa promises anymore!!! They have proven themselves!! You talk to Nightwatch about having TWU blinders on. I think maybe you need to take your amfa blinders off!!

Truth is the AMFA has done what is within a unions power to protect their members. You'll notice there isn't a drive to replace the AMFA, only the unions that are in bed with the companies!!. Truth is the twu couldn't have done any more than the AMFA, probably a whole lot less!! This is what the informed members at AA know. This is why the twu has so little support in Tulsa!! Your twu is worthless and refered to quite often as " the most DOCILE union" in the industry. I have yet to find ANYONE who won't resign!!!
You twu wannabes should be commended.....you are great company men!!!! AA thanks you!!!!!!!!

 

[Mark Inman]

Mr Steal Randy McDonald is not a AMFA supporter and he is the one who said 3000 people did not get a vote. Would you please get some one who can read to revue the facts and explain them to you your looking very incompetent on your own? NO VOTE :angry: NO PEACE!!!!!

 

[Mark Inman]

By the way JT we don't need to start a card drive we plan on bringing this one to a vote like the RLA says we have the right to do. NO VOTE :angry: NO PEACE!!!!!

 

[High Speed Steel]

Recovering from what did you here Arpey and little say we have to find a permanent way to lower cost because we will never enjoy revenue premiums like in the past again. We have to under cut the MRO's from now on. This is the kind of stuff that AA has been preaching to the mechanics for the past year and the Twscrew has said nothing about it . Now we are going to reunite the members and take back everything they took . I have an idea how about just enforcing the existing contract if you can. With rock solid language like this it’s a peace of cake right?

ATTACHMENT 1.5 – SEAT MILES SCHEDULED BY COMMUTER AIR CARRIERS 351 352 From: Jane G. Allen 353 To: Edward R. Koziatek 354 Re: Seat Miles Scheduled by Commuter Air Carriers 355 356 August 15, 1995 357 358 This will confirm our discussions leading to signing of the agreement dated August 15, 359 1995, in which we discussed provisions for the future schedules of commuter air 360 carriers relative to American Airlines. 361 362 It is agreed that, beginning with twelve (12) month period following August 15, 1995, 363 and each twelve (12) month period thereafter, the total number of available seat miles 364 (ASM’s) which may be scheduled by all commuter air carriers owned by AMR or feeding 365 American may not exceed six (6) percent of the total ASM’s scheduled by American. 366 This limitation will not apply to ASM’s scheduled by such commuter air carriers on new 367 service on a route, which American has not served since March 1, 1993. 368 369 No aircraft type currently in the American Airlines fleet, or inactive aircraft type 370 previously in the American Airlines fleet and still under the Company’s control, and no 371 current orders or options for an American Airlines aircraft type will be transferred to or 372 operated by a commuter air carrier either owned by AMR or feeding American Airlines. 373 374 (Signed original on file) 375 ARTICLE 1 – RECOGNITION AND SCOPE
12
Page 11 of 14
237
1. 238
From: C.R. Smith
239
To:
Francis A. O’Neill
240
Re:
Contracting Out Work
241
242
March 9, 1950
243
244
The contracting out of work has become an issue in our negotiations with TWU because
245
the union believes this practice may threaten the job security of its members. To show
246
that such fears are groundless I shall review our policy.
247
248
Our policy has been and is to maintain a stable work force. Few, if any, employees
249
have been laid off because we have contracted work to others. In 1949 American
250
Airlines, Inc. had the best record for continuity of employment in its mechanical
251
department that it has ever had, even though it was necessary to give some non-
252
recurring work to outside contractors.
253
254
In 1949 we scheduled our work in such fashion that there would be an orderly flow of
255
work through the plants. The program was successful enough to provide the highest
256
record of stable employment in the history of the company. One of the contributing
257
factors to an orderly flow of work was our program to farm out such work as was beyond
258
the capacity of our plants. We farmed out no projects that could have been
259
accomplished in our plants. All of our people were busy during the year. How then can
260
it be construed that the company will now find it desirable to contract out work that our
261
employees have the time and facilities to get done?
262
263
The union has sought a severance pay formula. Even though it has not been
264
demonstrated that work contracted out is, has or will jeopardize the security of the
265
employees, the severance pay plan gives an additional measure of security. This is a
266
new provision, unique in the air transport industry.
267
268
Nobody on the payroll will benefit by a program, which would require us to hire
269
temporary employees to take care of peak or non-recurring work, and to discharge them
270
as soon as the peak had gone. This, from our point of view, is a wastefully expensive
271
way of doing business, because it is inefficient. We must, therefore, retain the right to
272
give to others the work that our regular employees have not time to handle.
273
274
There are several things in airline operation, which principally affect the continuity of
275
employment; the volume of the business, the schedules to be operated and the
276
workload available. We will do the best we can to assure that each of these factors
277
contributes to stability and continuity of employment; we cannot and do not contract
278
about their volume, for we do not control that.
279
280
Our policy has enabled us to maintain a stable work force. We recognize its benefits
281
and see no reason to change the policy.
282
ARTICLE 1 – RECOGNITION AND SCOPE

Inman, I am going to address your post with an educational post that I had afforded to Buck at one time to give him a better understanding as to the Scope of our agreement. In refernence to the post I will change the identity to the recipient of the post, so that you may better understand it's content....!




Mark, I have noticed that you seem to have a great concern to the Scope of our agreement. I would like for you to get your TWU contract and look at the front cover but don't open the book. Now turn the book over and look at the back cover. O.K. now turn it back over and prepare to open it. There are definitions to the word scope in the dictionary that refer to range, span and etc. I will be using the word bridge which is refered to as a span in reference to what I am trying to explain. Now open the TWU agreement and the first Article you come to is Article #1 which is Recogniton and Scope. This notifies to the reader that this booklet has a range, or span such as a Bridge over water with many pillar's to support it and it extends from cover to cover. Well Article#1 is the Bridge, and the pillar's I reference are Job Protections that reach accross the span of the booklet and remain intact today. Many of the AMFA Organizers are trying to use specific quotations out of Article#1 to try and discredit it's authority. They only want you to look at the surface, and not look at the whole spectrum of what is required to enforce Article#1. They don't want you to be educated in what it takes to support Article#1. The former IAM represented employee's of NW Airlines had many pillar's to support the Scope of their agreement until AMFA came along. They entered negotiations and stripped the Job Protections or pillar's away from the agreement which weakend their Scope and resulted in many layoffs. I hope this will offer you a better understanding as to what Scope is.


-----------------------------------
amfa: The YUGO of the labor movement
Where bargaining means YOU GO....!

 

[Mark Inman]

Hey HSS: Northwest contract has very good scope language that’s why they had to declare force majeure to try and get around it. By the way how did twscrews force majeure arbitration come out? Now please tell me about these pillors under TWscrews scope and why Twscrew is not using them. They are violating our contract language daily and twscrew has not even tried to stop them.

 

[Stop the Bus..I Want Off!!]

high speed blue-water, I would hate to be the poor soul who would have to arbitrate any outsourcing with your bridges, pillars and utter nonsense. Put a cap on it and be done with it!! A judge will read "It is understood that NOTHING in this article requires the maintenance of the present volume of work" or Additionally, it is agreed that the company may continue to contract out work not exceeding the scope of its present contracting out practices. You don't have to be a lawyer to see that this contract language would be hard to use against the company in any contracting out dispute. You twu guys are to be commended on your opinions, your reaching legendary status!!

Keep the Faith.....AMFA NOW!!!!!!!

 

[High Speed Steel]

Hey HSS: Northwest contract has very good scope language that’s why they had to declare force majeure to try and get around it. By the way how did twscrews force majeure arbitration come out? Now please tell me about these pillors under TWscrews scope and why Twscrew is not using them. They are violating our contract language daily and twscrew has not even tried to stop them.

Mark, Thank you for responding to my post. I will now provide you with my response to the initial response's that I recieved when trying to reach out to Buck on this issue. It is to my understanding that you can place any outsource number you want in a contract, but if you gut the rest of the language it is worthless...!

And to state further after reading your response. You say, NW has strong Scope language. I would like for you to explain why 47.1% of the amfa represented members are out of work? Why are Maintenance Bases being closed, and some of the NW hangers, and facilities being scheduled for demolition, to make room for Hotel's, or additional Aircraft parking? Why are premium A&P jobs that once belonged to NW employee's being outsourced accross the big pond? I could go on and on with question's, but I will stop here for now...!

See below...... 😉




I started this thread late last night. As I sat before my computer I decided to go fishing, I knew I would catch a big one, But I didn't realize it was going to be "OL" TWU Informer himself! The topic I addressed has historically been one of the most controversial articles of our agreement. There has historically been some of the most fiercest battles in negotiations over this Article#1 over the years because of its importance to our agreement. If you will notice with Informer's initial responce that he tried to turn the tables and get off subject. I refer to there being the presence of range, or span within our agreement. And this can be proven with our grievance procedures alone. Our Shop Stewards know that when filling out a grievance that one of there strongest references to a violation is one simple phrase ( This is a violation of the TWU/AA agreement). Because they know there may be other articles within the agreement to best serve their grievant. This also forces the Company to go on a "Witch Hunt"! Which article are they in violation of, and will they have to look from cover to cover to find it? Many of our Arbitration cases have been won with this strategy alone. I truly question Informer's knowledge of the structure of our agreement which he so desperately seeks the authority to enforce. Where there Job Protections stripped from the NW agreement that have contributed to the level of outsourcing and lay off's that have been experienced at that carrier? His responce is 'NO" but guy's something drastic has really impacted their agreement! I think he needs to leave it in the capable hands of our TWU officials who understand the structure of our agreement. I am not prepared to put my destiny in the hands of TWU Informer. I would like to request to as CIO has done that you review what has taken place in the past few weeks. I recommend that you read the responce from Jim Little to Ken MacTiernan on the questions that he had. It is very good read and should answer many questions as to where we are today.

 

[Bob Owens]

If you are going to describe our Scope clause as a bridge lets be more specific and call it the Tacoma Narrows Bridge.


http://www.enm.bris.ac.uk/research/nonline...oma/tacnarr.mpg


http://www.vibrationdata.com/Tacoma.htm

 

[Mark Inman]

Lets see HSS AA has grown AE's ASM's 46% in the last 2 years and added 2 other regional’s to feed the hubs and signed agreements with them to pay passthrough costs on equipment, insurance, landing fees, and fuel, built in a profit margin and they did not violate attachment 1.5 . Go fish . You really did catch a big one HSS right in the butt.