New TWU president talks tough against DOJ lawsuit, American Airlines layoffs, industry outsourcing

[Overspeed]

Hmm, I recall you claiming that had we accepted the 2010 agreement that we would be the highest paid yet you failed to take into account that the only people that could have applied to would be line mechanics working night shift. You didn't take into account the other shifts or overhaul which would be making thousands of dollars less, (Base mechanics would be making around what they are now) let alone OSMs , cleaners, parts washers etc, then you come here and claim that when we look at what SWA pays their mechanics we have to factor in what MROs pay those workers? Are you factoring in what the MRO in China that's doing our 777s pays their mechanics? You are one twisted pro-company individual. Layoffs suck, but they have always been part of the industry, and most of the time people get called back or have the option to keep their job if they are willing to move, I don't recall any cries about how we need to cut wages and benefits so they would keep mechanics in BWI, IAD, BDL or countless other line stations over the years. Why should Tulsa be any different? The company is hiring off the street on the line yet you are saying that the Line should be willing to take paycuts to keep jobs in Tulsa? I'm willing to use your prior definition of what our "industry" is-other legacy carriers if you wish, but I'm not willing to buy into whatever comparisons you conjure up to try and justify your twisted logic. Now you want to define our peers as including mechanics in MRO's, but only for MROs that SWA outsources to, not MROs where AA outsources to. MROs are not even under the RLA, let alone in your prior definition of our industry. In other posts I've read where you exclude not only UPS but SWA from our peer group as well while claiming that they are not in the same industry. You change the definition depending on what your position on a topic is, even then you only cherry pick data by only saying that we should factor in SWA linked MROs but not AA linked MRO's, or mechanics that don't work the line at night or are in one of the many subclasses of very low paid mechanics that AA has at the OH bases. Please, make up your mind and show some consistancy. The question, along with others put forward remains unanswered, only a weak pathetic dodge attempt. We are a year into this agreement yet the company still is not even at the cap for outsourcing, ever consider why that is? Because they have no place to cost effectively send the work, that's why. As the MD-80s retire the OH jobs in Tulsa will go with them, but as that work goes away those job losses will not bring AA any closer to the cap. So in other words the cap is not offering any job protection whatsoever. So jobs will continue to be lost in Tulsa, then when the mid term wage adjustment kicks in the total percentage of outsourcing costs will shrink because overall costs will increase, in other words allowing them to outsource even more hours of OH work and cut even more jobs in Tulsa. By 2016 the company will be able to outsource all that remains of Tulsa's work and still fall well under the outsourcing cap. You claim that our language will force the company to bring work back in house, but admit that wont be for many years, probably well into the next contract, where that language may be negotiated away for market rate pay and benefits. So the end result will be that no jobs were saved, we just worked for bottom of the industry wages to make others that much richer and people like you helped them. How much is your cut?

True the 2010 agreement applied a higher premium for working line. That was done to bring up the pay of AMTs working in higher cost of living cities.

Go ahead and factor in the Chinese MROs working the 777 and TIMCO workers on the 757. Four lines of in-house overhaul for 622 aircraft is a lot less AMTs than are working on the approximately 30 lines at DWH and TULE on about the same number of aircraft. If we applied the AMFA language here would you be working at AA? AA would love to have the AMFA agreement in place. All the engine shops would be gone, most back shops, and we would have a whopping four lines of overhaul. How about that 2.75 AMT per aircraft minimum HC langauge. We are over 8 to 1 on the line, going to bring that killer AMFA language over as well.

AA won't hit the cap of which they are over 25% last I heard. That leaves less than 10% remaining until they hit the cap. How will AA drop all of TUL when just dropping the 757 and 777 AO (150 aircraft) took them to 25%? You're reaching.

 

[dfw gen]

The last thing that is not completed is the gain sharing provisions that are being worked on by the locals with the company.

your an idiot.

 

[dfw gen]

The last thing that is not completed is the gain sharing provisions that are being worked on by the locals with the company.

hold your breath till its completed. The whole contract is done except for....
Are you still holding your breath? Good keep holding. You are stupid us as stupid does.
You have to be Don. No one can be that stupid.

 

[comatose]

Never left it out. You make another very important point, we are not SWA and do fly a more complex fleet. Their non-labor operating costs are inherently lower and allow them to pay more and make a profit unlike AA that has higher non-labor operating costs.

And we will not be the lowest paid for much longer. The wage adjustment will bring us up to industry average in under two years and without agreeing to outsource as much as UA, DL, or SWA.

Bragging again?

 

[comatose]

True the 2010 agreement applied a higher premium for working line. That was done to bring up the pay of AMTs working in higher cost of living cities.

Go ahead and factor in the Chinese MROs working the 777 and TIMCO workers on the 757. Four lines of in-house overhaul for 622 aircraft is a lot less AMTs than are working on the approximately 30 lines at DWH and TULE on about the same number of aircraft. If we applied the AMFA language here would you be working at AA? AA would love to have the AMFA agreement in place. All the engine shops would be gone, most back shops, and we would have a whopping four lines of overhaul. How about that 2.75 AMT per aircraft minimum HC langauge. We are over 8 to 1 on the line, going to bring that killer AMFA language over as well.

AA won't hit the cap of which they are over 25% last I heard. That leaves less than 10% remaining until they hit the cap. How will AA drop all of TUL when just dropping the 757 and 777 AO (150 aircraft) took them to 25%? You're reaching.

No, just tired of the TWU giving us a reach around.

 

[trentrb211]

your an idiot.

× 10

 

[Thomas Paine]

Never left it out. You make another very important point, we are not SWA and do fly a more complex fleet. Their non-labor operating costs are inherently lower and allow them to pay more and make a profit unlike AA that has higher non-labor operating costs.

And we will not be the lowest paid for much longer. The wage adjustment will bring us up to industry average in under two years and without agreeing to outsource as much as UA, DL, or SWA.

Well once again you leave out the fact that AA charges more per passenger than SWA and has Premium class service which means higher revenues per passenger, so according to management that offsets the simplicity of the fleet. Go ahead company man, keep trying to make excuses for why AA cant pay not only what SWA does but even what UAL and Delta do. From what I've read even with the wage adjustment we will still be the lowest paid, Vacations and Holidays are way below industry standard and equate to up to $2/hr less per hour than what our peers are getting. So even though the wage may land in the middle the fact that we don't get Holiday pay and have a weeks less vacation still keeps us squarely at the bottom. Perhaps we wont be outsourcing as much, but that's only because we are working for less than it would cost to outsource, not because of good language.

 

[767 mechanic]

Overspin

Here you go again lieing to the people on this forum. DWH has no o/h maintenance,ZERO,NONE can you understand that. The only mode line that is going at this time is the Airbus acceptance check. You are a common liar. You,Don and Gless will be out of a job real soon after the new president of the twu kicks you out. I'm sure you will get a warm welcome at your box. So why why don't you scurry along and get to the layoffs done in Tulsa and St Louis. I am sure that you will get a warm welcome in Tulsa after you and the Int sold the contract to them saying it will save jobs. That's one thing I have always disliked about the twu. The company gives the twu a crappy contract and they say or do anything that they can to SELL it to the membership. A good contract should not have to be sold,it should sell itself.

 

[swamt]

Hmm, I recall you claiming that had we accepted the 2010 agreement that we would be the highest paid yet you failed to take into account that the only people that could have applied to would be line mechanics working night shift. You didn't take into account the other shifts or overhaul which would be making thousands of dollars less, (Base mechanics would be making around what they are now) let alone OSMs , cleaners, parts washers etc, then you come here and claim that when we look at what SWA pays their mechanics we have to factor in what MROs pay those workers? Are you factoring in what the MRO in China that's doing our 777s pays their mechanics? You are one twisted pro-company individual. Layoffs suck, but they have always been part of the industry, and most of the time people get called back or have the option to keep their job if they are willing to move, I don't recall any cries about how we need to cut wages and benefits so they would keep mechanics in BWI, IAD, BDL or countless other line stations over the years. Why should Tulsa be any different? The company is hiring off the street on the line yet you are saying that the Line should be willing to take paycuts to keep jobs in Tulsa? I'm willing to use your prior definition of what our "industry" is-other legacy carriers if you wish, but I'm not willing to buy into whatever comparisons you conjure up to try and justify your twisted logic. Now you want to define our peers as including mechanics in MRO's, but only for MROs that SWA outsources to, not MROs where AA outsources to. MROs are not even under the RLA, let alone in your prior definition of our industry. In other posts I've read where you exclude not only UPS but SWA from our peer group as well while claiming that they are not in the same industry. You change the definition depending on what your position on a topic is, even then you only cherry pick data by only saying that we should factor in SWA linked MROs but not AA linked MRO's, or mechanics that don't work the line at night or are in one of the many subclasses of very low paid mechanics that AA has at the OH bases. Please, make up your mind and show some consistancy. The question, along with others put forward remains unanswered, only a weak pathetic dodge attempt. We are a year into this agreement yet the company still is not even at the cap for outsourcing, ever consider why that is? Because they have no place to cost effectively send the work, that's why. As the MD-80s retire the OH jobs in Tulsa will go with them, but as that work goes away those job losses will not bring AA any closer to the cap. So in other words the cap is not offering any job protection whatsoever. So jobs will continue to be lost in Tulsa, then when the mid term wage adjustment kicks in the total percentage of outsourcing costs will shrink because overall costs will increase, in other words allowing them to outsource even more hours of OH work and cut even more jobs in Tulsa. By 2016 the company will be able to outsource all that remains of Tulsa's work and still fall well under the outsourcing cap. You claim that our language will force the company to bring work back in house, but admit that wont be for many years, probably well into the next contract, where that language may be negotiated away for market rate pay and benefits. So the end result will be that no jobs were saved, we just worked for bottom of the industry wages to make others that much richer and people like you helped them. How much is your cut?

Glad to see others are aware of how he is posting. Overspeed will change anything to go his way. He still claims that the TWU is out for the overhaul guys, yet they will be cut over 65% by 2017 and it WILL start first quarter of 2014. Her's one of his quotes to me from early on in this forum; " The TWU is the only union who has stood up for overhaul and you ridicule their success." Of course I ridicule their way of supporting O/H or ANY mechanics for that matter, just look at the history of the TWU for the last 3 decades since 1983. Anyway, he still is posting false information about AMFA and false info. about SWA.

 

[swamt]

Never left it out. You make another very important point, we are not SWA and do fly a more complex fleet. Their non-labor operating costs are inherently lower and allow them to pay more and make a profit unlike AA that has higher non-labor operating costs.

And we will not be the lowest paid for much longer. The wage adjustment will bring us up to industry average in under two years and without agreeing to outsource as much as UA, DL, or SWA.

Once again AMFA never agreed to more outsourcing!!! Getting old that you constantly repeat your lies over and over. Show where AMFA @ SWA agreed to more outsourcing. You cannot, because they haven't. Keep posting Overspeed your doing great...

 

[Thomas Paine]

True the 2010 agreement applied a higher premium for working line. That was done to bring up the pay of AMTs working in higher cost of living cities.

Go ahead and factor in the Chinese MROs working the 777 and TIMCO workers on the 757. Four lines of in-house overhaul for 622 aircraft is a lot less AMTs than are working on the approximately 30 lines at DWH and TULE on about the same number of aircraft. If we applied the AMFA language here would you be working at AA? AA would love to have the AMFA agreement in place. All the engine shops would be gone, most back shops, and we would have a whopping four lines of overhaul. How about that 2.75 AMT per aircraft minimum HC langauge. We are over 8 to 1 on the line, going to bring that killer AMFA language over as well.

AA won't hit the cap of which they are over 25% last I heard. That leaves less than 10% remaining until they hit the cap. How will AA drop all of TUL when just dropping the 757 and 777 AO (150 aircraft) took them to 25%? You're reaching.

Really? That was for the high cost cities? Because Tulsa line was going to get that money, so was DFW. Those are not high cost cities, in fact I was told that Don Videtich killed GEO pay in 2010, just as he did in 2001 when he was President of DFW. I've also read here that Tulsa was agreeable to a GEO Pay and many of the guys from Tulsa who post here say they also would be agreeable to Geo Pay, but Videtich killed it, not once, but twice. You would think that Don would be sympathetic to the high cost cities since he had to live in NY for a while, but then again maybe he is bitter because his truck burnt up in the JFK parking lot. I also heard he rented a room from an AA employee while in NY and then later as a Union official did nothing when the guy was terminated. Nice guy. How will they get rid of Tulsa with the language we have? As the new planes come in not only does the work on the old ones go away, along with the jobs, but they are not included in the cap and even if they were it would be many years before the jobs would come back, I doubt anybody would stick around waiting, so Tulsa will continue to shrink. As you mentioned in the earlier post our wages will go up with the mid term wage adjustment, even those at the base, that will allow them to further increase the amount of outsourced hours without bringing them closer the cap, then they can move whatever little remains to DFW/DWH and do progressive checks like their competitors at the other eight (SFO, LAX, ORD, MIA, LGA, JFK, BOS, STL) stations where they have Hangars (ever stop to wonder why they kept those facilities even through BK?). The more work that gets shifted to the lines the more they can outsource what's left of Tulsa, even this new policy of citing the MM reference and inspecting every compartment before dispatch will allow them to outsource more OH because it will drive up OT and headcount on the line. The more they spend on the line the more they can outsource from Tulsa under this language. On top of that the merger will add even more facilities in places where people actually want to fly into like PHL etc. Just two fleets brought them to 25%? You left out that all the line work done overseas was added to that 25%, not just those two labor intensive fleets, you also left out that the most expensive fleet , the MD-80s, are going away, and since the replacement aircraft are new they wont need AO for many years, further cutting heads in Tulsa. So they can get better utilization of the fleet and facilities by doing progressive checks on the line, do the high value work at DWH and AFW and outsource all the low value AO work that's currently done at Tulsa and still stay well within the so called "Cap" you speak of. If the company decided to reopen AFW do you think that most people in Tulsa would hesitate to move?

 

[Frank Szabo]

To our darling Overspeed:

A bottom line here is the statement Parker made re: keeping TULE Overhaul open for 2 years post-merger. Coupling that with the new aircraft (and the attendent "maintenance holiday") plus the simple fact no tooling requests for the new engines/equipment were making their way through TULE Tool & Die (where I spent 22 years), I began to see plainly what the "vision of Dougie and Tommy" was all about.

One needn't put a name to the "Overspeed" character - it doesn't matter who you really are. One must realize your function is to not refute the obvious, but to simply create doubt and fear amongst the troops. Someone doing this in a combat situation would have been fragged by now.

No threats - just a statement of fact - shut your cockholster and go away.

 

[swamt]

True the 2010 agreement applied a higher premium for working line. That was done to bring up the pay of AMTs working in higher cost of living cities.

Go ahead and factor in the Chinese MROs working the 777 and TIMCO workers on the 757. Four lines of in-house overhaul for 622 aircraft is a lot less AMTs than are working on the approximately 30 lines at DWH and TULE on about the same number of aircraft. If we applied the AMFA language here would you be working at AA? AA would love to have the AMFA agreement in place. All the engine shops would be gone, most back shops, and we would have a whopping four lines of overhaul. How about that 2.75 AMT per aircraft minimum HC langauge. We are over 8 to 1 on the line, going to bring that killer AMFA language over as well.

AA won't hit the cap of which they are over 25% last I heard. That leaves less than 10% remaining until they hit the cap. How will AA drop all of TUL when just dropping the 757 and 777 AO (150 aircraft) took them to 25%? You're reaching.

I would take AMFA's contract over any contract out there. If you guys had AMFA's contract there would be nobody on furlough. We have told you and told you Overspeed, we don't give 2-$hits about our headcount per A/C. Matter fact; one of the main reasons SWA has NEVER laid off an employee, not just mechanics mind you, ANY employee is directly tied to the number of employees we have to the number of aircraft we have. Now how many times has the TWU and AA laid off employees?? For freakin decades upon decades. I will take the job security over more mechanics per A/C. And why is it you brag sooooo much about AA's mechanic to A/C ratio? What does this wonderful and fantastic rating mean?? What does it do for the membership as a whole??? Does it save jobs???? NO it does not. Matter fact I will tell you exactly why you have a larger headcount per A/C and why the union wants it so bad. Number one reason is tied directly to the dues that the TWU collect from them, then the union loves the extra headcount for when AA does another lay-off's and rif's. Quit your lies Overspeed; AMFA never agreed to more outsourcing, AMFA inherited (as you state yourself with extensions) the terrible ibt contract that ALLOWED the overseas outsourcing, what AMFA has done was gone in and put stipulations and restrictions in place to help control the max allowed. This was not in place while the teamsters were here and SWA could have ran 20 lines in Aeroman, instead they are now restricted to only 4. The 4 that were removed from a USA vendor that SWA was unhappy with, therefore nothing was added, they were just relocated, except, that the ibt language allowed them to go out of the country. Let's not forget how SWA also put maint in Canada under the teamsters (ibt) language as well. It has never been an AMFA agreement as you are trying to make it look like. Keep posting Overspeed your doing great!!!

 

[Thomas Paine]

Bragging again?

No he is lying, as usual. We will still be the lowest paid when work rules and benefits are factored in. Lets say the Mid term wage adjustment brings us up to $39/hr with UAL at $39.01 and DL at $38.99 and USAIR gone. What is the dollar value of the week of Vacation we do not get? $1560, now what's the value of the five holidays we don't get? $1638 ($1560 plus 5% 401k match), what's the value of the half pay we get instead of at least double-time like everyone else? $900.90 ($858 plus 5% 401k match). For a grand total of $4098.90 or $1.97 an hour. In reality we would still be earing nearly $2 an hour less than Delta, even though according to Overspeed we would be getting one penny more, our compensation would still be dead last by a wide margin. If USAIR is still around we would probably end up just below them even with the mid term wage adjustment. Lets say USAIR gets their $37 they are begging for by the time the mid term wage adjustment kicks in, we would end up at $38.33, with Vacation, Holidays and OT/FT rules we would still be below USAIR.

 

[Rogallo]

To our darling Overspeed:
No threats - just a statement of fact - shut your cockholster and go away.

Beautiful.....