New TWU president talks tough against DOJ lawsuit, American Airlines layoffs, industry outsourcing

[Rogallo]

TWU stooge....pathetic!

 

[dfw gen]

I would like more info too. I found out through the Santos/JFK convention updates that 591 has filed legal action against the TWU for not representing the line.

Remember, AMFA has only extended the IBT contract that raised their pay. AMFA has had several contract extensions and the last one expanded the number of lines that could go to Aeroman. So AMFA cannot take on the most consistently profitable airline and get one contract that exceeds a 3% annual raise and allows greater outsourcing.

overspeed is a clown if he is at dfw which i doubt since there is zero,zip,nada support for the twu. if he were at dfw he would be an embarrassment to any mechanic.

 

[comatose]

overspeed is a clown if he is at dfw which i doubt since there is zero,zip,nada support for the twu. if he were at dfw he would be is an embarrassment to any mechanic.

Sorry for the edit

 

[swamt]

From what I hear from the Santos Convention updates local 591 wanted 514 to suffer more job loses. They even filed a lawsuit against the TWU for protecting those jobs. Most of us know the 591 E Brd is pro-AMFA and follow their ideology of sacrificing overhaul for higher line AMT pay. Why don't you tell the truth swamt, AMFA would complete AA management's goal of outsourcing all of TULE.

Getting AMFA in at AA would seal TULE's fate once and for all. The TWU is the only union who has stood up for overhaul and you ridicule their success. Why not point out the facts, NWA, UAL, and SWA have practically no overhaul when compared to AA. Even if AA does cut AMTs at TULE there will still be more overhaul AMTs working making way more than those doing the work on SWA aircraft at Aeroman.

I knew you would be back. AMFA has NEVER sacrificed O/H maint for higher line AMT pay as you have stated above. You want me to tell the truth Overspeed? You got it bro. The truth is the TWU already agreed to and sold to the membership the headcount reduction at Tulsa. No matter what union takes over at AA, they will NOT be able to change the fact that the TWU has already "agreed to" all the layoffs, job loses and the hardship that was put on the membership. I see you are already getting ready to blame AMFA for what the TWU has done. NOT going to happen. You are setting up to blame AMFA (if and when they get in at AA) for the rifs, layoffs, job loses, paycuts, outsourcing etc... When everyone knows full well it was the TWU.

 

[swamt]

TULE fate? The point is they still have options unlike UA and DL. There are still over 5,000 TWU members working overhaul unlike SWA which has what? 500? Woo hoo! SWA has about the same size fleet yet at AA there is thousands more working at way better pay than those thousands of highly paid ($5/hour) AMTs at Aeroman.

The highest paid airline employees are at SWA but not because of AMFA. All other unions on the property make top industry wages too and the most total number of employees is represented by the TWU, not AMFA. That's not AMFA bashing, that's the truth. AMFA did nothing but extend the IBT contract over and over again.

So do you support 591's lawsuit that TULE should have given up more jobs so line AMTs can get more money?

Once again you must be corrected. First of all, it is PATHETIC that you have to compare your TWU nego wages to NON-union Aeroman just to show that your above somebody. Secondly AMFA is the reason we are making what we make. It was AMFA at NWA that started the ball rolling for the "new and improved" AMT pay scales in the airline industry. Then shortly after that, the teamsters USED the NWA contract to get the SWA mechs their big contract. Yes I said the teamsters, and yes I also said they used the NWA/AMFA contract to do it----I was there, I know. Yes, we the membership decided to extend some contracts after the 9-11 crises. Those extensions turned out to the choice over all. SWA did not lay-off a single employee, did not gut the contracts, matter fact they continued on for years still granting raises with the extensions as the contracts were extended with all the same raises going forward. All the other airlines, including yours, gutted contracts, cut pay and bennies to the tune of more than a 25% overall once you add in all the increases out of pocket. That was 2003, now move forward to present, with yet again they gutted your contract, pay cuts, lay-offs, rif's , the hardship of mechanics being shipped to other stations involuntarily. If this is what you would call a better representation, then I have to ask, "what are you smoking chief?"

 

[swamt]

NIce try but totally untrue. We didn't vote for or against job security and increased outsourcing. AMR filed to eliminate those things to get what all the other airlines already had. The court documents submitted by AMR to Judge Lane referenced higher levels of outsourcing at every other carrier and that is all they wanted, industry standard outsourcing in place at UA(IBT), DL(non-union), AS(AMFA), and SWA(AMFA). Read the facts and you will know, we didn't vote for more and the TWU did not agree to higher outsourcing. The TWU negotiated to have fewer jobs outsourced then AMR wanted.

Unlike AMFA who rolled over at UA and agreed to what the IAM already gave up. Unlike AMFA at AS who blamed the IBT when all of the OAK overhaul base was shutdown and all work outsourced while not even being in BK.

Remember Dave, you are in TUL and it is your job that is at risk not mine.

Why are you fighting so hard to give me on the line a pay raise? Do you care that much about me?

Now here's one part you have correct; You did not vote for job security and more outsourcing because the TWU di "back door deals" with the company, then brought out a concessionary contract for you guys to look at and told you guys that if you don't vote this in it will get worse in BK courts. The pilots proved that theory wrong. The TWU "agreed" to everything in this concessionary contract behind closed doors, then brought it out to the membership and pushed extremely hard to sell it to the membership, and they were successful (if you wanna call it that). The simple fact is that IF the TWU did not agree with the concessionary contract, as you say, then why in the hell would they even let it come to the membership? AND "sell it" to the membership. The TWU actions speaks for themselves. They don't need you to explain how they have sold out the membership at AA...

 

[Overspeed]

swamt you are sadly wrong. The TWU did not "agree" to anything. We were quasi-negotiating in BK. BK is that place where corporations get what they want (ref. UA, US, DL, and NWA) and labor gets the shaft. Plan A was to mitigate the concessions and Plan B was to go vote the deal down and see if we do better than every other labor group that fought abrogation. There was no real negotiations here at AA.

You missed the comparison on Aeroman and that is truly pathetic. A SWA AMT that is not working ($0/hr) is making less than the Aeroman AMT that his job was outsourced to. AMFA is fighting to bring the wages up and better job security for El Salvadoran unlicensed mechanics? Is that part of the Delle AMT Global Initiative?

That whole NWA deal was great for the industry but then AMFA miscalculated and got all but 800 AMTs to go from $34 to $0. One step forward and the thousands backwards.

 

[swamt]

Read the "ask". AMR was asking to get a contract like those in place at SWA, AS, and UA. Why? Because they wanted to get those industry leading outsourcing contracts the IBT and AMFA already had in place.

It is AMFA and the IBT dragging down the industry and the TWU is the last one standing up for the AMT professsion as a whole, not just the line AMT profession.

Keep posting as it makes you look dumber and dumber. Everyone knows AMFA is not responsible for the % of outsourcing at SWA. Everyone already knows this was all accomplished while the ibt was here for well over 25 years PRIOR to AMFA showing up. It is fact son, AMFA has brought in more maint at SWA. AMFA has doubled the a/c maint in Dallas. Added mod lines in Dallas, "C" checks in Dallas, new mod line in ALT to start soon, and several back shop work added. Nice try, but AMFA is still trying to correct what the teamsters have done at SWA. You say AMFA nego the outsourcing at SWA in some of your postings, then you say in others that the only thing AMFA has done is extend teamsters previous contracts. Which is it? Make your mind up, your telling so much BS you can't remember what's what... Then you post this: " TWU is the last one standing up for the AMT professsion as a whole, not just the line AMT profession." No comment...

 

[swamt]

swamt you are sadly wrong. The TWU did not "agree" to anything. We were quasi-negotiating in BK. BK is that place where corporations get what they want (ref. UA, US, DL, and NWA) and labor gets the shaft. Plan A was to mitigate the concessions and Plan B was to go vote the deal down and see if we do better than every other labor group that fought abrogation. There was no real negotiations here at AA.

You missed the comparison on Aeroman and that is truly pathetic. A SWA AMT that is not working ($0/hr) is making less than the Aeroman AMT that his job was outsourced to. AMFA is fighting to bring the wages up and better job security for El Salvadoran unlicensed mechanics? Is that part of the Delle AMT Global Initiative?

That whole NWA deal was great for the industry but then AMFA miscalculated and got all but 800 AMTs to go from $34 to $0. One step forward and the thousands backwards.

I am not wrong sir. And you know it. You even said it yourself; "There was no real negotiations here at AA." If the nego cmte didn't agree to it, then said nego cmte should not had let it come out for a vote PERIOD!!! The TWU did in fact do "behind close door" deals with the company. And this is the exact reason why AMFA allows observers at the table, they can't and will not do any behind close door deals. Your outright lie that AMFA is supporting Aeroman job security and increasing their wages is just flat out not true. Keep posting overpeed, you doing great for the TWU...

 

[Overspeed]

Keep posting as it makes you look dumber and dumber. Everyone knows AMFA is not responsible for the % of outsourcing at SWA. Everyone already knows this was all accomplished while the ibt was here for well over 25 years PRIOR to AMFA showing up. It is fact son, AMFA has brought in more maint at SWA. AMFA has doubled the a/c maint in Dallas. Added mod lines in Dallas, "C" checks in Dallas, new mod line in ALT to start soon, and several back shop work added. Nice try, but AMFA is still trying to correct what the teamsters have done at SWA. You say AMFA nego the outsourcing at SWA in some of your postings, then you say in others that the only thing AMFA has done is extend teamsters previous contracts. Which is it? Make your mind up, your telling so much BS you can't remember what's what... Then you post this: " TWU is the last one standing up for the AMT professsion as a whole, not just the line AMT profession." No comment...

AMFA did nothing. When an airline grows exponentially they need to add staff. Therefore more mod lines. There is no new language in the AMFA contract other than adding one line when you go over 622 aircraft. Weak! AMFA has had multiple chances to negotiate caps that draw in substantially more work like CFM56 overhauls or more shop work but did nothing but roll over on the Aeroman outsourcing. Where was the job action? The strike? Nothing. There are now fewer AMTs per aircraft then when the IBT was there.

The headcount changes at AA beyond the 1113c cuts are related to the introduction of new aircraft. New planes need less maintenance plain and simple.

 

[Thomas Paine]

I would like more info too. I found out through the Santos/JFK convention updates that 591 has filed legal action against the TWU for not representing the line.

Remember, AMFA has only extended the IBT contract that raised their pay. AMFA has had several contract extensions and the last one expanded the number of lines that could go to Aeroman. So AMFA cannot take on the most consistently profitable airline and get one contract that exceeds a 3% annual raise and allows greater outsourcing.

So I will take your failure to answer the question as "NO"' the Fleet service clerks, Flight attendants and other workers at SWA, unlike the mechanics do not make 30% more than their peers at AA. As far as the lawsuit, you admit that you never saw it and came to the conclusion that the lawsuit is about shedding more jobs in Tulsa for higher pay from the line. Now back to SWA, did AMFA expand the number of lines that can be outsourced or did they expand the number of already outsourced lines that can be outsourced overseas, and is that number higher or lower than the amount of work that AA can ship overseas? What is the limit as far as the number of lines that AA can outsource overseas? As you are aware the profitability of a carrier has nothing to do with collective bargaining under the RLA and the biggest impediment for SWA, UPS, UA and even DL to raising wages is the substandard contracts at AA. Should any of them end up in a PEB our contract would probably result in a PEB determining that they need to cut their wages and benefits.

 

[Thomas Paine]

AMFA did nothing. When an airline grows exponentially they need to add staff. Therefore more mod lines. There is no new language in the AMFA contract other than adding one line when you go over 622 aircraft. Weak! AMFA has had multiple chances to negotiate caps that draw in substantially more work like CFM56 overhauls or more shop work but did nothing but roll over on the Aeroman outsourcing. Where was the job action? The strike? Nothing. There are now fewer AMTs per aircraft then when the IBT was there.

The headcount changes at AA beyond the 1113c cuts are related to the introduction of new aircraft. New planes need less maintenance plain and simple.

How many mechanics were laid off at SWA? How many sick days, Holidays and vacation days have they given up? What concessions have they given that harms their members? How many paycuts have they taken? Are you saying that AMFA should have been willing to tell their members to accept concessions so SWA would bring more work in house and AMFA could collect more dues? Is that the purpose of a Union, to grow at the expense of wages and benefits? Sounds to me like you are admitting the Union at SWA has served its members interests by maintaining wages and benefits at a time where competitors were slashing both instead of the organizations interest at maximizing dues revenue.

 

[Overspeed]

How many mechanics were laid off at SWA? How many sick days, Holidays and vacation days have they given up? What concessions have they given that harms their members? How many paycuts have they taken? Are you saying that AMFA should have been willing to tell their members to accept concessions so SWA would bring more work in house and AMFA could collect more dues? Is that the purpose of a Union, to grow at the expense of wages and benefits? Sounds to me like you are admitting the Union at SWA has served its members interests by maintaining wages and benefits at a time where competitors were slashing both instead of the organizations interest at maximizing dues revenue.

Let's follow your logic all the way out. If we were like SWA and followed the IBT/AMFA precedent then AA would never have hired thousands of AMTs at AFW and TULE over the years. There would have never been a JT8D, CF6, CFM56, RB211, or Trent shop and that if that means,"serving the members interests," then I guess if never being employed by AA would have been best. There would be no AMFA supporters at AA because they would all be working at a low wage MRO with no benefits. Big win AMFA, big win.

 

[Overspeed]

So I will take your failure to answer the question as "NO"' the Fleet service clerks, Flight attendants and other workers at SWA, unlike the mechanics do not make 30% more than their peers at AA. As far as the lawsuit, you admit that you never saw it and came to the conclusion that the lawsuit is about shedding more jobs in Tulsa for higher pay from the line. Now back to SWA, did AMFA expand the number of lines that can be outsourced or did they expand the number of already outsourced lines that can be outsourced overseas, and is that number higher or lower than the amount of work that AA can ship overseas? What is the limit as far as the number of lines that AA can outsource overseas? As you are aware the profitability of a carrier has nothing to do with collective bargaining under the RLA and the biggest impediment for SWA, UPS, UA and even DL to raising wages is the substandard contracts at AA. Should any of them end up in a PEB our contract would probably result in a PEB determining that they need to cut their wages and benefits.

30% more? Really. You fail to factor in all the overhaul jobs that are done for $5/hour at Aeroman or $20 at AAR for SWA. Those jobs didn't go away and those AMTs did not stop becoming peers. AMFA has made a conscious decision to give up on overhaul. AMFA President Prisco at UA stated during the IBT drive their that those overhaul jobs were lost a long time ago and they are never coming back. Weak.

F/As, Pilots, and Clerks at SWA do make top pay in the industry by a significant margin.

SWA outsources far more work save one other airline AMFA represented AS who outsources all of their overhaul which they gave up without a fight.

I don't know where you have been over the last 20 plus years. All the majors have been pushing in negotiations that SWA expansion was fueled by lower costs driven by outsourcing. All the legacies were battling the low cost (read outsource union work) program.

 

[Chuck Schalk]

30% more? Really. You fail to factor in all the overhaul jobs that are done for $5/hour at Aeroman or $20 at AAR for SWA. Those jobs didn't go away and those AMTs did not stop becoming peers. AMFA has made a conscious decision to give up on overhaul. AMFA President Prisco at UA stated during the IBT drive their that those overhaul jobs were lost a long time ago and they are never coming back. Weak.

F/As, Pilots, and Clerks at SWA do make top pay in the industry by a significant margin.

SWA outsources far more work save one other airline AMFA represented AS who outsources all of their overhaul which they gave up without a fight.

I don't know where you have been over the last 20 plus years. All the majors have been pushing in negotiations that SWA expansion was fueled by lower costs driven by outsourcing. All the legacies were battling the low cost (read outsource union work) program.

How much does American Pay the non-union mechanics in south america and virgin islands? $5 dollars and not in the outsource reports was " they are "american airlines employees" and does not violate the contract. these mechanics outside our union were doiing "ps". "A" checks and engine cards. We have been doing this all along but under the radar. so overspeed, do your homework before you speak!