New TWU president talks tough against DOJ lawsuit, American Airlines layoffs, industry outsourcing

[767 mechanic]

30% more? Really. You fail to factor in all the overhaul jobs that are done for $5/hour at Aeroman or $20 at AAR for SWA. Those jobs didn't go away and those AMTs did not stop becoming peers. AMFA has made a conscious decision to give up on overhaul. AMFA President Prisco at UA stated during the IBT drive their that those overhaul jobs were lost a long time ago and they are never coming back. Weak.

F/As, Pilots, and Clerks at SWA do make top pay in the industry by a significant margin.

SWA outsources far more work save one other airline AMFA represented AS who outsources all of their overhaul which they gave up without a fight.

I don't know where you have been over the last 20 plus years. All the majors have been pushing in negotiations that SWA expansion was fueled by lower costs driven by outsourcing. All the legacies were battling the low cost (read outsource union work) program.

overspin Wnen are we going to get our contract books? Oh that's right we voted on a contract that was not complete. Here it is over a year after the vote and the contract is still not finished. We are on revision 4 if I am correct. There is a layoff coming in Tulsa in the first quarter of next year,but you don't want to talk about that or how that layoff is going to affect the membership all the way back to 1996 seniority. How do you think the members in Tulsa are going to feel when there bump sheet has North,East and West on it but no south. Not only Tulsa will be getting hit,ffrom what I am being told St Louis is preparing for a RIF of 50% of its people,but you should no know that being that you are the RIF coordinator for the twu. It is only a matter of time before o/h at AA is all but gone and people like you(bloodsuckers) will be blaming everybody,but yourself. I can't wait to see people like Gless and Videtich go back to there toolboxes and then they won't be getting that envelope of cash each week that they are use to getting.

 

[Rogallo]

I can't wait to see people like Gless and Videtich go back to there toolboxes and then they won't be getting that envelope of cash each week that they are use to getting.

Nah, they'll go directly into management!!!

 

[OldGuy@AA]

Nah, they'll go directly into management!!!

Sadly that is probably true.

 

[BigMac]

Sadly that is probably true.

Yep, there's a very fine line.

 

[Overspeed]

overspin Wnen are we going to get our contract books? Oh that's right we voted on a contract that was not complete. Here it is over a year after the vote and the contract is still not finished. We are on revision 4 if I am correct. There is a layoff coming in Tulsa in the first quarter of next year,but you don't want to talk about that or how that layoff is going to affect the membership all the way back to 1996 seniority. How do you think the members in Tulsa are going to feel when there bump sheet has North,East and West on it but no south. Not only Tulsa will be getting hit,ffrom what I am being told St Louis is preparing for a RIF of 50% of its people,but you should no know that being that you are the RIF coordinator for the twu. It is only a matter of time before o/h at AA is all but gone and people like you(bloodsuckers) will be blaming everybody,but yourself. I can't wait to see people like Gless and Videtich go back to there toolboxes and then they won't be getting that envelope of cash each week that they are use to getting.

The contract is online on the website and it has been done. The only undefined language was completed in committees shortly after the contract was signed.

OH is not gone. There are thousands working there now and while there may be fluctuations due to new fleets there will always be more overhaul and line jobs than under the AMFA agreement. AMFA at AS has no overhaul and SWA has four lines of overhaul and no engine overhaul. For some reason you can't understand that.

 

[Overspeed]

How much does American Pay the non-union mechanics in south america and virgin islands? $5 dollars and not in the outsource reports was " they are "american airlines employees" and does not violate the contract. these mechanics outside our union were doiing "ps". "A" checks and engine cards. We have been doing this all along but under the radar. so overspeed, do your homework before you speak!

All work done by mechanics not on the TWU list are treated as outsourced labor. That means they fall within the 15% line maintenance cap in the TWU agreement. What language is in the AMFA/SWA contract on restricting work done by foreign SWA mechanics in the Caribbean and Mexico when they start flying there? That's right...none.

I did do my homework.

 

[Deleted member 14439]

The contract is online on the website and it has been done. The only undefined language was completed in committees shortly after the contract was signed.

OH is not gone. There are thousands working there now and while there may be fluctuations due to new fleets there will always be more overhaul and line jobs than under the AMFA agreement. AMFA at AS has no overhaul and SWA has four lines of overhaul and no engine overhaul. For some reason you can't understand that.

Oh really? Please direct us to the language detailing the "Gain Sharing" provision.

 

[TWU informer]

The contract is online on the website and it has been done. The only undefined language was completed in committees shortly after the contract was signed.

OH is not gone. There are thousands working there now and while there may be fluctuations due to new fleets there will always be more overhaul and line jobs than under the AMFA agreement. AMFA at AS has no overhaul and SWA has four lines of overhaul and no engine overhaul. For some reason you can't understand that.

Might be True, yet to be seen.......but it will be at the cost of pay and benefits to the membership. We paid to keep what little will be left by sacrifice of the pay and benefits of the profession. For some reason you can't understand that. This is failure also, just a different path of failure. But none the less FAILURE!

 

[Thomas Paine]

Oh really? Please direct us to the language detailing the "Gain Sharing" provision.

Overspeed, are you there? You said "The contract is online on the website and it has been done. The only undefined language was completed in committees shortly after the contract was signed." Well where is it, Its been over a year.

 

[Thomas Paine]

30% more? Really. You fail to factor in all the overhaul jobs that are done for $5/hour at Aeroman or $20 at AAR for SWA. Those jobs didn't go away and those AMTs did not stop becoming peers. AMFA has made a conscious decision to give up on overhaul. AMFA President Prisco at UA stated during the IBT drive their that those overhaul jobs were lost a long time ago and they are never coming back. Weak.

Hmm, I recall you claiming that had we accepted the 2010 agreement that we would be the highest paid yet you failed to take into account that the only people that could have applied to would be line mechanics working night shift. You didn't take into account the other shifts or overhaul which would be making thousands of dollars less, (Base mechanics would be making around what they are now) let alone OSMs , cleaners, parts washers etc, then you come here and claim that when we look at what SWA pays their mechanics we have to factor in what MROs pay those workers? Are you factoring in what the MRO in China that's doing our 777s pays their mechanics? You are one twisted pro-company individual. Layoffs suck, but they have always been part of the industry, and most of the time people get called back or have the option to keep their job if they are willing to move, I don't recall any cries about how we need to cut wages and benefits so they would keep mechanics in BWI, IAD, BDL or countless other line stations over the years. Why should Tulsa be any different? The company is hiring off the street on the line yet you are saying that the Line should be willing to take paycuts to keep jobs in Tulsa? I'm willing to use your prior definition of what our "industry" is-other legacy carriers if you wish, but I'm not willing to buy into whatever comparisons you conjure up to try and justify your twisted logic. Now you want to define our peers as including mechanics in MRO's, but only for MROs that SWA outsources to, not MROs where AA outsources to. MROs are not even under the RLA, let alone in your prior definition of our industry. In other posts I've read where you exclude not only UPS but SWA from our peer group as well while claiming that they are not in the same industry. You change the definition depending on what your position on a topic is, even then you only cherry pick data by only saying that we should factor in SWA linked MROs but not AA linked MRO's, or mechanics that don't work the line at night or are in one of the many subclasses of very low paid mechanics that AA has at the OH bases. Please, make up your mind and show some consistancy. The question, along with others put forward remains unanswered, only a weak pathetic dodge attempt. We are a year into this agreement yet the company still is not even at the cap for outsourcing, ever consider why that is? Because they have no place to cost effectively send the work, that's why. As the MD-80s retire the OH jobs in Tulsa will go with them, but as that work goes away those job losses will not bring AA any closer to the cap. So in other words the cap is not offering any job protection whatsoever. So jobs will continue to be lost in Tulsa, then when the mid term wage adjustment kicks in the total percentage of outsourcing costs will shrink because overall costs will increase, in other words allowing them to outsource even more hours of OH work and cut even more jobs in Tulsa. By 2016 the company will be able to outsource all that remains of Tulsa's work and still fall well under the outsourcing cap. You claim that our language will force the company to bring work back in house, but admit that wont be for many years, probably well into the next contract, where that language may be negotiated away for market rate pay and benefits. So the end result will be that no jobs were saved, we just worked for bottom of the industry wages to make others that much richer and people like you helped them. How much is your cut?

 

[Thomas Paine]

The headcount changes at AA beyond the 1113c cuts are related to the introduction of new aircraft. New planes need less maintenance plain and simple.

Yep, and thanks to you we gave concessions based on the costs with old planes. So AA will end up with one of the lowest maintenance costs in the Industry and we will still be the worst paid in the industry. AA had more mechanics and higher maintenance costs because they had an old complex fleet, SWA has a newer simple fleet (and simpler operation-no ETOPS) thus fewer mechanics. You seem to always leave that out.

 

[jimntx]

Don't worry, guys. TULE will exist because it will reach a point where no one outside will want to bother with the MD-80's still in service. Hey, maybe they could get DL to outsource their MD-80 maintenance to TULE since they will have the old girl around longer than we will.

And, the TWU "executives" will be letting you know daily that "We'll get 'em next time, boys."

 

[BigMac]

Jim, you had to mention DL. WorldTraveler is gonna pounce.

 

[Overspeed]

Overspeed, are you there? You said "The contract is online on the website and it has been done. The only undefined language was completed in committees shortly after the contract was signed." Well where is it, Its been over a year.

The last thing that is not completed is the gain sharing provisions that are being worked on by the locals with the company.

 

[Overspeed]

Yep, and thanks to you we gave concessions based on the costs with old planes. So AA will end up with one of the lowest maintenance costs in the Industry and we will still be the worst paid in the industry. AA had more mechanics and higher maintenance costs because they had an old complex fleet, SWA has a newer simple fleet (and simpler operation-no ETOPS) thus fewer mechanics. You seem to always leave that out.

Never left it out. You make another very important point, we are not SWA and do fly a more complex fleet. Their non-labor operating costs are inherently lower and allow them to pay more and make a profit unlike AA that has higher non-labor operating costs.

And we will not be the lowest paid for much longer. The wage adjustment will bring us up to industry average in under two years and without agreeing to outsource as much as UA, DL, or SWA.